Blackheaded Pythons?

Derek Roddy · 12-22-15, 07:43 PM

So, a friend of mine (many years ago) brought this up on another forum and I'd thought I'd get some opinions here.

The question....

"Hello "other python" keepers! I have a question I was hoping many of you could help me answer. I always hear or read people saying I am going to get some blackheaded pythons or blackheads are on my wish list or I really want to get some blackheaded pythons. So I had a question for python keepers!

Is anybody here wanting to get some Blackheads?

What makes you not have any now?

Is it price? Size? Rumors of difficulty breeding? Hard to find?

Or is it several of those reasons combined?

Or have you recently bought some?

I know they are not cheap and I know times are a little tough to be buying expensive snakes but I'd like some feedback. What are you thinking about blackheaded pythons...if anything.

Your input is appreciated!"

Pretty self explanatory really.

What do you guys think? (there's a reason I'm asking this question BTW so, be ready for a lengthy discussion about a few topics)....that is if you guys want to discuss.

AND...you can replace "Blackhead Python" with any other species that you haven't thought about obtaining before or haven't saved enough, or wishing you had, etc.

(Disclaimer......haha

I know it's Christmas so be patient on the responses....but, I (and I'm sure others) truly are interested.)

Cheers,
D

**Minkness** · 12-22-15, 07:50 PM

For blackheads.....price and esthetics. They are neat looking, but over all, just not my thing. Same with womas. I might consider one in the future since I do greatly enjoy having a diverse collection, but the price would need to come waaaaaay down.

I do not look at wase or difficulty breeding since I have no plans of doing such. Maybe BPs some tine in the future, but that's far off and only speculative for now.

Bandit · 12-22-15, 07:52 PM

Price is my issue. I'm not in a position to be buying much of anything right now, but a blackhead is just way out of reach. One day I'll have one, but that will probably be a few years down the line.

I don't think I have a substitute for one...maybe a woma. But I'm not sure I could call that a substitute because even if I did get a BHP I'd still like a woma anyway.

Derek Roddy · 12-22-15, 07:56 PM

Great guys thanks....remember..."blackheads" is just a reference for many species that might seem "out of reach" or "I'll get them eventually"....can be any species you strive for.

(Although, I do like to hear the response about the BHPs)

And go..... haha.

D

**Minkness** · 12-22-15, 08:02 PM

In that case, the one I kind of want but is out of reach would probably be an indigo. I think they are super cool looking but the price definitely keeps me from ever hoping for one unless the price went way down.

Also, I just don't understand why any snake is sooooo expensive. Even certain BP morphs. I saw one that was 10k!!!

I can understand not being cheap, but there's a limit I think that actually starts to hinder their ability to grow within the hobby. Outsideof actual inport/export fees of course.

**EL Ziggy** · 12-22-15, 08:36 PM

For me it would probably be an Eastern Indigo. We can't keep them here in GA and they're still a bit pricey. I'm not sure if I'm ready to fork over a G for a snake just yet but I might.

RAD House · 12-22-15, 08:51 PM

I think price and availability keep me from the species I would like to work with. I would love an indigo snake or axanthic black tailed cribo but both are out of my price range. I also would love to keep an eyelash boa but they are impossible to find. I may have some interest in black headed pythons but again the price is what dissuades me.

Bandit · 12-22-15, 10:14 PM

I think I'll have join everyone else in this and say Indigos. They're such cool snakes, but the price gets me on those as well. But Blackheads are probably the biggest example for me on a snake that I really want, but just can't afford.

Sylphie · 12-23-15, 02:10 AM

Well... I want a woma/bhp and indigo's too. But there like everyone said is the price that is really high, they are soo rare that I know like one breeder of each species (some not in my country)... and also there is the problem with them being too big and strong for me (in case of indigos and bhp), as I'm having some serious problems with my spine.

chairman · 12-23-15, 08:44 AM

I wouldn't think that price is much of an issue. If you can afford to feed it then you can afford to put away that food money to save for an animal. It might take years to save the money but we're talking about something you really want. People pursue morph breeding projects for a decade before getting where they want to be, putting a little aside for a special addition isn't too crazy to consider.

I think my constraints are care related. I'll never own an animal that requires team handling because my wife isn't a fan of snakes and my kids will not be living in my house forever. I'm unlikely to own anything that doesn't generally tolerate handling well because I like to interact with my animals. I prefer to provide larger than usual housing for my animals so space will always be a limiting factor. I also prefer species without a large footprint in the hobby, I like to believe that breeding such species is generally helpful.

These limits have allowed me to map out my options for future additions and have proven helpful in preventing impulse purchases. For those animals I do want, patience is the name of the game.

riddick07 · 12-23-15, 08:47 AM

I want a blackheaded python eventually. The cost is high but I've pretty much spent the equivalent the past month on snakes between new ones and cages. I generally think I haven't gotten one yet really because they aren't at the top of the list for me. I wanted the woma more than the bhp for example and I just got the woma.

I don't think there is a snake right now that I want that is above the cost of the bhp...so really it's just the amount of animals I can buy at once. I've added three new ones in the past month and the combined cost is higher than the bhp. Plus, generally people find that paying a huge sum at once a deterrent compared to the equivalent of multiple smaller purchases. Another factor for me which I'm sure will slow down my buying more snakes is my college loans popping up within the next 6 months....depending on the payment required on them I won't be spending as much on new snakes for awhile or maybe as quickly as I have been recently.

Derek Roddy · 12-23-15, 10:18 AM

This is great everyone....thanks for the replies.

I'll let a few more stack up then I'll get to the reason I was asking to begin with.

Cheers,
D

**Aaron_S** · 12-23-15, 10:55 AM

I personally think people like the "allure" of "rare" or uncommon species but when push comes to shove they simply choose the more "regular" animals.

I believe price is an issue (yet $5000 for a ball, boa or carpet python were easy to find money for)
I think their size is one
Finally, care and ability to breed. I bet I could breed blackheads and out sell any ball python breeder. However, most people couldn't regularly produce them. (which cycles to the rarity and allure of having them)

**Minkness** · 12-23-15, 11:13 AM

Rareity may be one thing. But I have seen some 'rare' snakes that I wasn't as interested in that are cheaper than medium rare animals.

It also comes down to what the actual herp community hobby IS. Is it a breeding circle where every animal has to have a value, or are they pets and should be available for any general enthusiast?

BPs are good example of this. Morphs are all about the breeders, but the snakes themselves started out as just being good pets. I can almost guarantee that you won't see a common pet owner with a BP that's 5k and NOT have plans to breed it.

Not to mention the fickleness of the dollar worth of an animal. This time last year a female banana bp with no other added genes was easily 800+. This year, I have seen a banana pastel female close to breeding size at 450 shipped.

I don't like the indigo because it's rare. I love the look of it. The color and face structure. The size is a bit daunting but if the animal it's self wasn't so expensive, I could get the snake small, put it in cheaper, smaller tanks, and save up for a really nice large tank along the way.

Also, someone else brought it up that they may spend the same amount on 5 snakes combined which feeds our own personal hobby and enjoyment instead of just one snake.

Horses are also expensive. Some more than others. Looking at a grade quarter horse you cpuld get one from free to 500$. But a gypsy vanner? Depending on breeding can be between 10-20k. It's still a horse.....

That's how I see snakes. Sure some will be cheaper, but to me, there's a cap of just being rediculusly over priced. It's not the animal it's self that makes it rare. It's the price tags we put on them (usually). If you have a difficult to breed snake, and you are the only one breeding and selling it, of course it will be in 'high demand'. And only the select few who can afford it, will have it. But, if it's difficult to breed, and you have 10 peopl with viable breeders who know what they are doing....it no longer makes them that rare.

I may get flamed for saying this, but to me, there is no reason to have a SUPER expensive reptile. They do not work, earn money, or provide any actual use. They are a hobby that you can enjoy in pease in your own home. The only 'use' reptiles have is to be bred and sold to make back the money orriginally spent on it, which is kind of sad.

That being said, I thoroughly enjoy breeding, hatching, growing, and selling my crestie babies. But I also don't put a massive price tag on them. I produce some babies that are easily worth 150$ unsexed. But I don't ship. I ONLY sell locally, which usually means people looking for pets, not potential breeders. So my 150$ babies usually get sold for 50$. More expensive than the petstore, but still reasonable for a pet.

Nightflight99 · 12-23-15, 12:49 PM

Interesting discussion. In my experience, the three main factors that drive the demand in the herp trade are 1) the level of availability in the trade, 2) the coloration & pattern, and 3) the potential of the animal to serve as a status animal.

The level of availability in the trade is different from it being rare, since the ladder is a relative term--is it rare in the trade or rare in the wild? Or both? Or just elusive? Or for other reasons unavailable? Ultimately, these dynamics result in the common balance of supply & demand, but a lot of people have a difficult time wrapping their heads around the idea that a certain snake is worth X amount, whereas something else that may appear to be much more desirable is worth significantly less. Lots of reptile keepers like the idea of keeping an animal that is considered to be unique or rare, simply because this appears to be desirable, and to some people it may elevate their own perceived social status within the community. If an animal has the ability to do so, then that in itself makes it desirable to a lot of people, and as a result they are willing to pay significantly for that animal.

The color and pattern of a snake can also be a very strong driver of demand. As a general rule, people tend to enjoy animals that have bright colors, strong contrast, and a clean pattern. If the animal shares those traits to an extend that it would be considered highly unusual, then the demand and the associated price tag may increase significantly. The appetite for the unusual also works into the opposite direction of that spectrum--toward to darker, more monotonous phenotypes. However, the effect in that direction is often (but not always) less severe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minkness

It also comes down to what the actual herp community hobby IS. Is it a breeding circle where every animal has to have a value, or are they pets and should be available for any general enthusiast?

I think the price dynamics within the herpetoculture community are not as different from those of non-living products as we would like for them to be. Supply and demand dictate the prices, which tend to oscillate for non-morphs and act on a negatively-sloped curve for morphs. What this means is that the prices of morphs have a tendency to start high and then drop into a bottomless pit within just a few years. On the other hand, the prices of non-morphs tend to oscillate with availability. Over the years, species that are expensive are bred more frequently, which increases the supply and sends the prices tumbling. At some point, a lot of breeders abandon those projects and the supply eventually drops, allowing for the prices to increase again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minkness

I may get flamed for saying this, but to me, there is no reason to have a SUPER expensive reptile. They do not work, earn money, or provide any actual use. They are a hobby that you can enjoy in pease in your own home. The only 'use' reptiles have is to be bred and sold to make back the money orriginally spent on it, which is kind of sad.

This is the only aspect of your post that I disagree with. It is of course true that reptiles are not working animals, and you (regrettably) cannot train your boa to help you carry groceries or help us fend off attackers. (The occasional Jehovah's Witness at your front door not withstanding...

). However, I don't find money that is spent on purely recreational activities to be unjustified. In fact, I would argue that just the opposite is the case--it makes much more sense to spend money on your passions in life, and on those activities or items that bring you personal happiness. If keeping a $5k snake is what brings you happiness, then I see zero problems with spending that money (obviously assuming that you're still able to pay your bills & responsibilities). After all, you cannot really put a price on happiness, nor can you define it for anyone but yourself.

As a general statement, I've never been able to understand people that are so frugal and unwilling to spend money on anything that their entire lives are spent saving for a day that never arrives. Live life to the fullest, be passionate about your interests, and have fun!