Honest discussion about rat breeding

Cmwells90 · 05-22-15, 12:42 AM

So I'm looking to start up my own rat colony for my growing collection of Boas. I've been looking at all the care and everything and I had a thought. If rat pups are around the same age, you can have another nursing mother adopt them. With this in mind, you could get a female to a cool down period or even back to breeding during the time she would normally be nursing. Has anyone else done this before? I'm curious if this is an idea that might actually work. I'd like to have a steady supply, especially as I start breeding, but I don't want to have to house 8+ females to do so, at least not right away.

I want to be clear, I'm not saying this is a good idea, I've never raised rats before. But I was thinking it's a possibility. I imagine it would cause extra strain to the nursing female, so maybe only do so in instances with small litters, or only for a short period of time, or staggered duration, some sort of variation. Alright, so if you guys could offer you're experience, theories, and/or successes that would be great

bigsnakegirl785 · 05-22-15, 01:51 AM

It's up to you. It's always best to give a recently-pregnant female at least a few weeks off, I personally gave mine a month or so off but that's just me. If you want bigger litters, and bigger, healthier babies I highly advise giving her time to recuperate each time she becomes pregnant, whether or not she nurses or has a successful litter.

I've never done what you're proposing, but at the time I was breeding I had a trio of rats for two snakes, which gave me 2x what I needed so I wasn't really worried about saving time. haha Maybe another person with experience on bigger-scale breeding could tell you if it's a good idea or not. I did let females share litters, though. My females were kept together 100% of the time, and the male was introduced to their cage for breeding. The females would lump all their babies together and take turns nursing.

Cmwells90 · 05-22-15, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

I've never done what you're proposing, but at the time I was breeding I had a trio of rats for two snakes, which gave me 2x what I needed so I wasn't really worried about saving time. haha Maybe another person with experience on bigger-scale breeding could tell you if it's a good idea or not. I did let females share litters, though. My females were kept together 100% of the time, and the male was introduced to their cage for breeding. The females would lump all their babies together and take turns nursing.

You've never had issues this way? I've heard mother's will steal each other's babies and it causes stress which can cause them to eat their young. I'd hate to lose babies due to stress.

Also, what kind of food do you use, I'm trying to get a good idea of prices and find the best option for me.

bigsnakegirl785 · 05-23-15, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmwells90

You've never had issues this way? I've heard mother's will steal each other's babies and it causes stress which can cause them to eat their young. I'd hate to lose babies due to stress.

Also, what kind of food do you use, I'm trying to get a good idea of prices and find the best option for me.

I never experienced this, and I bred 3 generations of females. They always shared their litters and nursing duties, and I might have lost maybe a handful of babies in 5-6 years. Although, I did lose an entire litter once because my father didn't feed them at all (or at least not enough food to support the babies) while I was gone on a school trip for 9 days, and the other female reabsorbed or ate her litter and I didn't notice. Even though the babies were on death's door (they died only hours after I arrived), neither of the females killed or ate the babies. As far as I know, I've never had a mother eat her babies, if they died they always buried them - which was a pain.

As far as price, it wasn't all that bad. I would buy a 50 lb bag for $15-30, and that would last my trio and their babies for 1.5 years. I supplemented them with fresh veggies and raw meat once a week, that I used from our food, so there was no extra cost. I kept the bedding 4" deep in a 5'-6' long cage, and changed it when I started noticing it getting dirty, so I might have changed it every few months, and gathered up any surrounding bedding when they gave birth. One bedding change used almost an entire big bag of bedding. I used cedar at the time because I didn't realize it was bad for them, but I think having the entire front made of screen helped, because I never experienced any RI problems. I will be using aspen if I start up another breeding project, though.

So, price yearly, maybe: $100 a year? That's with the veggies not being counted, as the price is included in our grocery bills, and bedding changes every 3 months. Having a smaller cage and not as deep of bedding would probably increase that cost as you'd have to replace bedding a lot more often.

**Minkness** · 05-22-15, 02:28 PM

I've actually considered breeding mice for my 3 when all are full grown, but I wouldn't be able to utilize them properly I don't think and feeding live is so dangerous. =(

Cmwells90 · 05-22-15, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minkness

I've actually considered breeding mice for my 3 when all are full grown, but I wouldn't be able to utilize them properly I don't think and feeding live is so dangerous. =(

You can kill and freeze the mice after they reach the right size. You can gas them with CO2 to kill them humanly.

**Minkness** · 05-22-15, 05:11 PM

Note....I wouldn't be able to kill them.....not that there aren't ways..I just..couldn't x.x

Utilize was supposed to be euthanize...sorry, got a new phone and it autocorrected x.x

Cmwells90 · 05-23-15, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minkness

Note....I wouldn't be able to kill them.....not that there aren't ways..I just..couldn't x.x

Utilize was supposed to be euthanize...sorry, got a new phone and it autocorrected x.x

I understand the inability to kill them, I just find that the money I'll save is stronger than my moral on killing rats lol!

**Minkness** · 05-23-15, 10:44 AM

I dunno about saving money. Ordering bulk from big cheese is probably cheaper since if you breed you have to buy all the stuff for set up (caging, food dishes, Water bottles). Then there's the food, bedding, minerals, cleaning supplies, ect. Perhaps for a large collection it makes more sense to breed your own, but for 3, it would not be cost effective lol.

Cmwells90 · 05-23-15, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minkness

I dunno about saving money. Ordering bulk from big cheese is probably cheaper since if you breed you have to buy all the stuff for set up (caging, food dishes, Water bottles). Then there's the food, bedding, minerals, cleaning supplies, ect. Perhaps for a large collection it makes more sense to breed your own, but for 3, it would not be cost effective lol.

Agreed, my list of snakes hasn't been updated in awhile! I'll be feeding quite a few mouths, plus I'll be breeding, so I'd save quite some money having my own supply. Plus it'll be fun!

**Minkness** · 05-23-15, 12:48 PM

Oh cool. Let me know how that goes!

Cmwells90 · 05-24-15, 08:25 AM

@Mink I will definitly will! I'll probably launch a thread when I start building the racks and getting all the stuff together!

@Bigsnake What did you use for food? Looking at the norm, Mazuri, it'll cost me over $100 to feed 1 colony a year. I have no problem with the cost, and I want to provide the best feeder rats possible, but if there's another diet I can take a look at and save some $$$, that'd be nice too XP

bigsnakegirl785 · 05-25-15, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmwells90

@Mink I will definitly will! I'll probably launch a thread when I start building the racks and getting all the stuff together!

@Bigsnake What did you use for food? Looking at the norm, Mazuri, it'll cost me over $100 to feed 1 colony a year. I have no problem with the cost, and I want to provide the best feeder rats possible, but if there's another diet I can take a look at and save some $$$, that'd be nice too XP

The bulk pellets I got were Mazuri brand, and I got them cheap at the local feed store. $15 on sale aka the old stuff, and $30 brand new, for a 50 lb bag. I wouldn't be able to tell you what brand would be cheapest for you, or what pellets are best. The pellets I gave them were more of a supplement than the main part of their diet, so I wasn't too concerned with quality, but as far as I know Mazuri is a solid brand.

They got lots of veggies, like bell peppers, cucumbers to cool off during the hot summer days, broccoli, carrots (as an occasional treat), apple slices, pear chunks, pieces of raw venison or beef, dandelion leaves and other pet-safe greens from the yard (we used no pesticide on our lawn and the year we did I stopped feeding yard greens), Romaine lettuce, Swiss chard, etc. Anything we had on had that was rat-safe, and all fruits were a once-a-week treat. They got one or two different veggies in addition to 3-4 blocks of pellets each a day for adults and 1-2 for babies. If cut into chunks, they'd get 2-3 smallish chunks (1-2 for weaned babies) of each variety provided that day, or mid-sized leaves. They got a few "pinches" of meat once or twice a week.

pinefamily · 05-25-15, 04:52 AM

Obviously being in Oz my comments can't be compared directly, but here goes.
Feeding our rats costs approx. $28 or $29 (US) per month, not counting leftover fruit and veg, and the occasional bag of frozen mixed veg. That is using a 20kg bag of rat pellets, and a bag of small dog food, that is easier for the young ones to eat to start with.
We currently use water bottles in the side of the tubs, and I am in the process of planning another rack, this time using the water nipples and a gravity fed water system.
Regarding the mothers, we have experienced a variety of responses; I have come to believe that it comes down to the individual personalities of the rats. Some mothers will accept other babies, some will nurse together with other mothers, and some will not. One thing almost universally true is the males will eat the babies if left in with the pregnant females.
The cost of buying rats to feed our reptiles is far greater than the cost of breeding them, IMO.