BP, switching from live mice to....

[Zelg]

Ok, so when I bought my BP he/she was being fed live mice. A few things I didnt quite anticipate would be having trouble switching from live to F/T but also to rats.

I've tried a couple different things. Right now hes eating 2 "jumbo" mice which appear to be the same size as the extra small rats the local pet shop sells (live btw). He takes down both mice without issue. I currently give him one, wait about 30 minutes or until hes back in his hide, then toss the other one in. He gets them both fairly quickly but theres a bit of stalking going on as well.

I've tried in the past (kind of a lame attempt by myself) to switch from live mice to F/T but didnt have any luck and I think I gave up too quickly.

Right now, feeding 3 mice, I'm wanting to make the switch to rats. Months ago, (like late summer) he took a small rat with no problem. Snatched that thing up just like it was a mouse. Thats the only rat I was able to get him to eat. Since then I've offered extra small rats (about equal to jumbo mice size) every now and then but he just either sniffs it and hesitates until the rat makes a fast movement then its kinda game over and he wont come out again, hence my problem.

I want to make the change to F/T because rats seem a little more active an bullyish(bull in a china shop lol), which of course just frightens the snake into avoiding it.

I was reading another post from another forum that google showed me about feeding a mice, waiting till its almost down, then guiding the rats head in afterwards, in hopes that it'll just continue eating and eventually take rats w/o the mice first.


I was also curious about scenting. Or braining i guess. Do you just crack the mice's skull open and let the scent waft around the container or do you need to smear the rat with it or is this just a F/T tactic?



This was a total rambling, poorly thought out and last minute post so excuse the sloppyness. Mainly just curious how to switch from live mice to F/T rats.


Btw, my temps and humidity havent been changed really. Theres an up swing in the evening as the sun hits that room but its only a few degree difference and he has a nice gradient in his cage. He has two hides, a waterbowl and a makeshift overhang made with leafy vine and bamboo sticks that give him some cover. Humidity has been at about 50-55%, up to 70 for shedding.

Seems healthy as far as I can tell.



P.s. Will definitely be looking for a snake thats already taking F/T next time

[reptiledude987]

These can both be tricky switch overs to acheive especially with BP's. Id suggest to getting him doing one or the other consistantly before doing the other. If mice arent big enough then do the switch to rate first. Idealy you would want to do the switch to FT first simply because a live mouse is less of a risk to the snake than a live rat. Once youve got him taking either FT mice or onto live rats for several feedings in a row then do the other chang. Another trick to make the change from live to frozen easier is to go with fresh killed. Its a good in between that gets the snake used to not having the meal but still has the normal ambient body heat.

[Zelg]

With what you said, I feel like its probably better to try getting him on to F/T mice than switching to live rat. Rats seem much more willing to go bother the snake(i.e. running up and sniffing, scaring the snot out of the snake, not biting or anything, just more active and inclined to not care that a snake is there (obviuosly the danger is there, I just havent experienced it yet, though thats the reason I'm wanting to switch). Mice on the other hand, see my snake and run, so obviously I havent had any issue on that front, just with rats. If he went straight after the rat I'd feel a little better (still would rather go to F/T in the end)

I've tried a little with F/T mice and fresh killed but admittedly wasnt very patient.

The F/T mice I tried, i defrosted them and...well they werent cold but they werent exactly warm either. So definitely I need to prep them a little better.

The fresh killed I've only done with rats because well....I ended up having freshly killed rats on hand. I'd break their necks and then lay them in front of one of his hides (one time left it on top) but to no avail. I've tried waving it lightly in front of his head to entice him but he wasnt interested in it.

I have my rat hangin out in a container right now (trash can really but its got substrate! lol). Would you suggest offering fresh killed? I tried going with the live feeding last night but he hardly even poked his head out of his hide (might just be off feeding. another factor that irritates me lol)

Normally I feed (mice), he digests, maybe a poop, maybe not, a week later he's out of his hide exploring at night and lounging. He last ate a month ago but hasnt been out of his hide very much so that just make me think hes either going off feeding (which he did for like 2 months last year) or getting ready to shed. He doesnt look like hes getting ready but hes fooled me before. Then again I havent offered him a live mouse again yet. Ugh so many things to consider.

Ok, next planned step, offer freshly killed rat. Should I bother with that or just go with a F/T/Freshly killed mouse?

[fishingfool]

I normally empty the tank of my snakes hides befor i feed him normally helps they never loose sight of each other

[Zelg]

Originally Posted by fishingfool

I normally empty the tank of my snakes hides befor i feed him normally helps they never loose sight of each other

I wonder about this. When I first got my snake, I fed him in a separate container (a plastic tub) with nothing in it. Put him in, throw the mouse in, BAM!. Very little messing around. After a while, I decided to move to just feeding in the enclosure. Now of course he gets picky

I've tried removing everything. Doing a separate container again. I definitely feel at this point he needs to feel very secure while hes on the hunt. Mice oddly enough will climb up on my vines and sit there, which allows my BP to slither underneath and attack from below. Very awesome to watch that hunt. Rats on the other hand, for whatever reason, seem much less comfortable climbing on them and would rather be lower on the ground, so they're always runnin around at his level and scaring him every time they run by.

Still havent tried feeding again, will attempt tomorrow.

[Aaron_S]

I didn't read the responses so it may have been said already...

When I switch all my ball pythons I first switch prey items then I switch to frozen thawed. You can scent rats with mice if he's eating live. Ask the pet store to toss dirty mouse shavings into the rat box when you get it.

Take it home and toss it in. Once the snake is eating scented live rats (you can go with rat pups or weaned rats for less danger to the snake) then switch it to f/t.

[Zelg]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I didn't read the responses so it may have been said already...

When I switch all my ball pythons I first switch prey items then I switch to frozen thawed. You can scent rats with mice if he's eating live. Ask the pet store to toss dirty mouse shavings into the rat box when you get it.

Take it home and toss it in. Once the snake is eating scented live rats (you can go with rat pups or weaned rats for less danger to the snake) then switch it to f/t.

Hey Aaron thanks for the response. The problem I'm having with live rats is that they're too active and they just scare my BP. The smallest size the local shops around here sell (that ive been able to find anyhow) are "X-Small", whatever that is. They're about the same size as their "jumbo adult mice" and I've not been able to find anyone that sells pups smaller than that. The guy I started getting mice from at first sells pinky mice but doesnt do any rats at all (damn him! lol).

So my problem with sticking with live rats for the moment is finding rats that are smaller and pose less of a threat.

I'm wondering if theres a way I can block off part of my cage to separate the rat from my snake so my snake can go hunt it rather than have the thing run by its hide 50 times and really not giving him a chance to ambush the guy. He prefers to be about half way out of his hide but if a rat is constantly running up to him, it doesnt allow him to get out really.

I will swing by the local shop tomorrow when they're open and see if I can get some of his mouse bedding and give it another go. At this point (a month) I'm more concerned with him eating so I think I want to just try the rat with shavings and then if he refuses, give him a mouse and then try the switch with the new tactics next feeding. Does that sound reasonable?

Also, I thought he was starting to go into shed as he's very dull right now so that could be another reason he's refusing, though he's always eaten before a shed before and a couple times during (early on though...i wait til hes done now).

Anyhow, as I said, I'll give the mouse bedding a try tomorrow

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Zelg

Hey Aaron thanks for the response. The problem I'm having with live rats is that they're too active and they just scare my BP. The smallest size the local shops around here sell (that ive been able to find anyhow) are "X-Small", whatever that is. They're about the same size as their "jumbo adult mice" and I've not been able to find anyone that sells pups smaller than that. The guy I started getting mice from at first sells pinky mice but doesnt do any rats at all (damn him! lol).

So my problem with sticking with live rats for the moment is finding rats that are smaller and pose less of a threat.

I'm wondering if theres a way I can block off part of my cage to separate the rat from my snake so my snake can go hunt it rather than have the thing run by its hide 50 times and really not giving him a chance to ambush the guy. He prefers to be about half way out of his hide but if a rat is constantly running up to him, it doesnt allow him to get out really.

I will swing by the local shop tomorrow when they're open and see if I can get some of his mouse bedding and give it another go. At this point (a month) I'm more concerned with him eating so I think I want to just try the rat with shavings and then if he refuses, give him a mouse and then try the switch with the new tactics next feeding. Does that sound reasonable?

Also, I thought he was starting to go into shed as he's very dull right now so that could be another reason he's refusing, though he's always eaten before a shed before and a couple times during (early on though...i wait til hes done now).

Anyhow, as I said, I'll give the mouse bedding a try tomorrow

The lack of availablity is tough. I would go with rat pups/pinks/fuzzies. Rats that are just about to open their eyes is what you want. Scent them and then since it's harmless to the snake go ahead and leave it in over night. Hopefully your snake will take it.

[Zelg]

Alright, a little update. I had decided on just getting a meal into my BP since it had been a month (now 5 weeks) since last eating. The thought of the rats having black heads and white bodies crept into my head and stuck so I ended up going and getting a small black mouse, about half the size of the normal "jumbo' white mice I usually get. I tried once and he kinda just ignored it. I then got a white mouse, housed them together for a couple days and then tried the black one again. I think two more times, he refused the mouse. All times, starting out semi interested and then ending with them avoiding each other.

To night, I tried the black one and once again it was the same scenario that played out. I took the black one out and kind of my hail mary, last hope for the night, I tossed the white one in. Well of course it was in there maybe 30 seconds before my snake snatched it up. No hesitation. AND he gobbled it down in the time it took me to go to the kitchen and get a drink. Literally lol. (maybe a long drink but still.)

So I go back into his room and hes tucked back into his hide with his head sticking out waiting for the next, like the previous 2 times i've fed him two mice at a time. So I figure thats a good sign and I grab the black one, toss it in and maybe this time it was 45 seconds before everything went down without a hitch. So strange.

So, with that behind me, what is the general consensus on liking their rats/mice a specific color? I.e. white vs black. I raised mine on white mice, happened to take a black n white rat once and none since and then trouble taking this small black mouse.

Do snakes really find a preference of colors for their prey?

Still on the hunt for rat pups. We'll see how hungry he looks in a week or so.

AAAAAAND bed time.

[Aaron_S]

My guess is that it could see the white mouse better and it triggered a feeding response. I don't see colour making a difference considering it ate both anyway.

All that matters is that it ate.