Need Assistance: Is this a gopher snake or a rattlesnake?

JustMe86 · 05-10-14, 02:48 PM

This dude is out in my backyard right now… He's been out there for several days now and I've got rabbits and a dog. I haven't let the dog in the backyard and this thing is too small to eat my bunnies, but I need to know whether to get rid of him or not, and I guess I'd base a lot of that decision on whether he's venomous or not. I'm pretty sure it's a gopher snake but I just can't tell for sure as it's not my area. The end of its tail was moving like a rattlesnake's and it has this bright orange on the tip. Some of the research I just did said that that's what a juvenile's developing rattle looks like. Also, it's not shiny or glossy at all, but it looks like it could use a shedding, so I don't know if that's a reliable way to tell. I know the head isn't huge and triangular, but apparently there are some rattlesnakes in California that don't have that. I know anyone that takes interest or study in California herpetology would know but I don't of anyone who's into that. Sorry my cell phone pictures didn't turn out larger… I think I can only post four at a time per post on this site, so I'll post replies with the remainder of the photos… Oh yeah, it moves around like a sidewinder when it's going through the grass… (I've seen sidewinders before in the Mojave Desert).

I'm just really ambivalent on whether those spots are squarish or triangular/diagonalish…

If he's a rattler, I've gotta move out of the backyard to the field behind the house because I have rabbits and a dog. Maybe I should have him moved regardless since I can't decide on whether I think he's a gopher snake or a rattler just to be on the safe side? And no, I'm not going to do anything myself - we have an animal control unit nearby.

JustMe86 · 05-10-14, 02:48 PM

JustMe86 · 05-10-14, 02:50 PM

What do you guys think? Rattler or gopher snake? Should I have him removed? Also, is it normal for them to hang around the same backyard for days at a time? It seems kind of weird to me… They usually are there and just gone later in my lack experience… I'm wondering if it's spotted the rabbits and thinks it's going to stay here and live and grow until it's big enough to eat them?

JustMe86 · 05-10-14, 02:51 PM

Sorry I don't have a better picture of the bright orange tip on the tail - I tried to get it but its tail is always down into the grass. I only really saw it when it was on the cement. I'm not comfortable trying to get anymore pictures since I don't know if this thing is venomous. It also coiled up at me the other day and it was kind of nerve-racking…

Stewjoe · 05-10-14, 03:10 PM

It's a pine/gopher/bull snake of some kind. Definitely not a rattler.

Charis · 05-10-14, 03:20 PM

It's a gopher snake of some kind, the head shape is distinctive on both species and it is not a rattler.

Pirarucu · 05-10-14, 03:23 PM

Definitely a Gopher, not a Rattlesnake.

JustMe86 · 05-10-14, 04:17 PM

Awesome! Thank you!!!

JustMe86 · 05-10-14, 04:18 PM

Do they normally do a rattle imitation? First it was just in the grass straight out, but then it stuck it up into the air like a rattler does.

Stewjoe · 05-10-14, 04:24 PM

All the time. They try to mimic rattlesnakes.

Charis · 05-10-14, 04:25 PM

Yeah, lots of other snakes will rattle their tail to try and scare you off. Gopher/Bull snakes also have a very scarily impressive hiss and can sound very mean! But they are pretty harmless. Like any animal with a mouth, they can and sometimes will bite if cornered but a bad non venomous snake bite is about like a moderately bad cat scratch.

JustMe86 · 05-10-14, 06:33 PM

At first I was able to walk around it from at least a twelve foot radius in all directions and it was able to sense me all the way from that distance! (It's head raised and followed me with tongue flicking). I had no idea they were so sensitive. I know their vision basically just views heat, but I didn't know how far they could see and smell. As for the tail and head, I wish I had better photos - it's a bummer. I just couldn't get any closer without feeling uncomfortable - and the snake too, probably. Also, the grass is deep right now. I wish I'd gotten the pictures while it was still on the cement but I couldn't find the cell phone until after it had slithered into the grass. The color on the end of the tail however was BRIGHT orange… Like, neon. It wasn't pink or red/agitated skin color.

A friend on Facebook who's into reptiles, but particularly chameleons, not snakes, told me that is indeed the sign of a developing rattle, however bull snakes and some gopher snakes have this imitation as well as the rattling action. I don't know if this is true or not. Very interesting, especially at how these non-venomous snakes have evolved to imitate venomous snakes.

It makes me wonder, how did they learn? I know it's thousands of years of adaptation, but these snakes shouldn't be interacting with other snakes I wouldn't think, especially venomous ones. So how did they learn this behavior? I guess bull snakes eat other snakes, so that makes sense, but gopher snakes are a constrictor. Weird. And my major was physical anthropology - but I still can't theorize how science might explain this phenomenon.

Stewjoe · 05-10-14, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustMe86

I know their vision basically just views heat, but I didn't know how far they could see and smell.

Nope, only Vipers, Boas and Pythons have heat sensing organs. Most snakes have good vision.

Pirarucu · 05-13-14, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustMe86

At first I was able to walk around it from at least a twelve foot radius in all directions and it was able to sense me all the way from that distance! (It's head raised and followed me with tongue flicking). I had no idea they were so sensitive. I know their vision basically just views heat, but I didn't know how far they could see and smell. As for the tail and head, I wish I had better photos - it's a bummer. I just couldn't get any closer without feeling uncomfortable - and the snake too, probably. Also, the grass is deep right now. I wish I'd gotten the pictures while it was still on the cement but I couldn't find the cell phone until after it had slithered into the grass. The color on the end of the tail however was BRIGHT orange… Like, neon. It wasn't pink or red/agitated skin color.

A friend on Facebook who's into reptiles, but particularly chameleons, not snakes, told me that is indeed the sign of a developing rattle, however bull snakes and some gopher snakes have this imitation as well as the rattling action. I don't know if this is true or not. Very interesting, especially at how these non-venomous snakes have evolved to imitate venomous snakes.

It makes me wonder, how did they learn? I know it's thousands of years of adaptation, but these snakes shouldn't be interacting with other snakes I wouldn't think, especially venomous ones. So how did they learn this behavior? I guess bull snakes eat other snakes, so that makes sense, but gopher snakes are a constrictor. Weird. And my major was physical anthropology - but I still can't theorize how science might explain this phenomenon.

Much of their strategy for protecting themselves lies in their similarity to a rattlesnake. Those that made noise when threatened would be even more convincing rattlesnake mimics, and would be more likely to survive.

pdomensis · 05-13-14, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustMe86

It makes me wonder, how did they learn? I know it's thousands of years of adaptation, but these snakes shouldn't be interacting with other snakes I wouldn't think, especially venomous ones. So how did they learn this behavior? I guess bull snakes eat other snakes, so that makes sense, but gopher snakes are a constrictor. Weird. And my major was physical anthropology - but I still can't theorize how science might explain this phenomenon.

Keep in mind, they didn't learn it from rattlesnakes and the similarity is likely a coincidence. The various species that do this independently "discovered" through natural selection that making noise or a show in the presence of a predator (rattling, hissing, bluffing) results in fewer deaths than not making noise. If there's any learning going on, it's by the predators who have "learned", again through lots of deaths, that rattling snakes can kill, so they leave rattlers and their mimics alone.