Live Feeders online?

GarterGirl · 06-26-13, 07:36 PM

As my name suggests, I'm a fan of garter snakes. The biggest problem that I currently have is finding food for them. Most of my garters and my female nerodia refuse to eat anything but live fish. They are all between 1 and 3 years old, and only one of them has ever successfully eaten frozen.
So- beyond trying to get them to eat something else, I'm currently looking for a website where I can buy live feeder fish, feeder frogs, or tadpoles for fairly cheap. All I can find for fish are frozen or bulk, or waaaaay too much per (when you have 4 garters and a nerodia, plus babies on the way, 4 bucks a pop, twice a week for food gets to be too much.)
Anyone have any sites that they have used with success? Since I live in Arizona, bait shops are few and VERY far between (2 hour drive to the closest one to me that has live minnows), so I'm looking for other options.

Amadeus · 06-26-13, 11:36 PM

Switch to mice, worked with my tham

GarterGirl · 06-27-13, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Switch to mice, worked with my tham

That's my problem- they won't take mice, and they won't take frozen. I'm having to do live fish (or tadpoles, or frogs).

You can't use goldfish or rosy minnows, because of thiaminase that is found in those fish- it will kill your snakes. I wish I could just go to Petsmart, but they won't sell guppies or mollies if they know they are going to be feeders (not to mention those are expensive when not on sale.)

Amadeus · 06-27-13, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

That's my problem- they won't take mice, and they won't take frozen. I'm having to do live fish (or tadpoles, or frogs).

You can't use goldfish or rosy minnows, because of thiaminase that is found in those fish- it will kill your snakes. I wish I could just go to Petsmart, but they won't sell guppies or mollies if they know they are going to be feeders (not to mention those are expensive when not on sale.)

You can keep a frog in your freezer to scent a live mouse =]

GarterGirl · 06-27-13, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus

You can keep a frog in your freezer to scent a live mouse =]

I've tried scenting, and even putting parts in during their feeding frenzy- they go beyond uninterested and one of them will stop feeding if he gets anything other than fish. Trust me- I have made the attempt to get them to eat more than just fish and frogs (though I would never put them on a strictly mouse diet.)

Amadeus · 06-27-13, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

I've tried scenting, and even putting parts in during their feeding frenzy- they go beyond uninterested and one of them will stop feeding if he gets anything other than fish. Trust me- I have made the attempt to get them to eat more than just fish and frogs (though I would never put them on a strictly mouse diet.)

I think the reason you can't get them to eat one thing is that you don't want to stick with one thing, mice would give it more than enough if not more nutrition than fish would.

slowhite03 · 06-27-13, 01:02 AM

Petsmart has fish for around 10 cents. Can those work?

Mikoh4792 · 06-27-13, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

As my name suggests, I'm a fan of garter snakes. The biggest problem that I currently have is finding food for them. Most of my garters and my female nerodia refuse to eat anything but live fish. They are all between 1 and 3 years old, and only one of them has ever successfully eaten frozen.
So- beyond trying to get them to eat something else, I'm currently looking for a website where I can buy live feeder fish, feeder frogs, or tadpoles for fairly cheap. All I can find for fish are frozen or bulk, or waaaaay too much per (when you have 4 garters and a nerodia, plus babies on the way, 4 bucks a pop, twice a week for food gets to be too much.)
Anyone have any sites that they have used with success? Since I live in Arizona, bait shops are few and VERY far between (2 hour drive to the closest one to me that has live minnows), so I'm looking for other options.

I don't know any but have you thought about going to the store, buying fish and then breeding them? I'm just guessing you would have a more steady supply and save on money.

GarterGirl · 06-27-13, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

I don't know any but have you thought about going to the store, buying fish and then breeding them? I'm just guessing you would have a more steady supply and save on money.

I have thought about it, and we did discuss the possibility. It is something we are looking into for the future, but it would take a while before we had a good base population and the fry were large enough to be fed off. By what a local guy told us, it would take about a year to get a balanced population, not to mention a large tank since I'd be feeding 4 garters who eat twice a week, and one grumpy nerodia.

smy_749 · 06-27-13, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

I have thought about it, and we did discuss the possibility. It is something we are looking into for the future, but it would take a while before we had a good base population and the fry were large enough to be fed off. By what a local guy told us, it would take about a year to get a balanced population, not to mention a large tank since I'd be feeding 4 garters who eat twice a week, and one grumpy nerodia.

I had a tank of mollys a while back, they have live birth and are constantly having babies. If you bought like 30 of them and a big *** tank, you might be ok. Not sure exactly @ what pace they breed, but its fast and they are 99 cents just about everywhere. (I also do not know the nutritional value /thiaminase issue with these, just an idea)

bcr229 · 06-27-13, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I had a tank of mollys a while back, they have live birth and are constantly having babies. If you bought like 30 of them and a big *** tank, you might be ok. Not sure exactly @ what pace they breed, but its fast and they are 99 cents just about everywhere. (I also do not know the nutritional value /thiaminase issue with these, just an idea)

From Thiaminase:

Quote:

Little or nothing is known about the thiaminase content of some of the small ornamental fishes usually used as feeders. However, goldfish and minnows (including rosy red minnows) definitely contain thiaminase and consequently make very poor choices as feeders. On the other hand, the Poeciliidae (e.g., guppies, mollies, mosquitofish) are often recommended as safe feeder fishes for predators because of their presumed to be low thiaminase content. Despite claims among aquarists that guppies contain thiaminase producing bacteria, I am not aware of any scientific study demonstrating this to be the case. Since poecilids are grazers, an uptake of thiaminase-producing cyanobacteria would be possible, though less probable in a freshwater aquarium where a much smaller variety of algae are likely to be present than in the wild.

Anecdotal evidence that the notoriously delicate Ribbon Eel can live on a diet of mostly gut loaded black mollies for more than 15 years would seem to suggest that poeciliids are largely thiaminase-free and make a safe choices for feeder fish. Of course this depends on the quality of the feeder fish being used, and cheap feeder guppies from pet stores might not contain any thiaminase but could certainly contain all sorts of pathogenic bacteria and parasites! So when poeciliids are described as being among the best feeder fish, this depends on them being bred at home and gut loaded with Vitamin B1-enriched foods, such as a good quality flake food.

GarterGirl · 06-27-13, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

I had a tank of mollys a while back, they have live birth and are constantly having babies. If you bought like 30 of them and a big *** tank, you might be ok. Not sure exactly @ what pace they breed, but its fast and they are 99 cents just about everywhere. (I also do not know the nutritional value /thiaminase issue with these, just an idea)

It is something we are considering and talking to mollie/guppy enthusiasts about. It'll still be a while before we can get that set up, though.

KORBIN5895 · 06-27-13, 02:41 AM

Wow. I wish my snakes only cost $2 bucks to feed each week.

Good luck in your search.

GarterGirl · 06-27-13, 03:02 AM

Mine don't cost $2 a week to feed- they cost about $25 a week to feed, when I can't get enough cheap guppies from the only place that sells them larger than dime sized.

KORBIN5895 · 06-27-13, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarterGirl

Mine don't cost $2 a week to feed- they cost about $25 a week to feed, when I can't get enough cheap guppies from the only place that sells them larger than dime sized.

Sorry but I misread your previous post. I used to spend $25-$30 a week to feed four boas so I started importing frozen feeders which then turned into a side business for me.