Snails for Sav

[formica]

I am contemplating the addition of snails to my Sav's diet, anyone doing this? What type do you use? The obvious choice would be the giant snail Ghana is famous for, or rather its young, which are apperntly pretty easy to breed...

[smy_749]

Go for it, would make a great additional food item.

[formica]

kool, I'm going to get a few breeding adult giant snails and raise up a colony for food I think, way to expensive to buy individually for food lol

seems like a great way to get calcium into my Sav!

[smy_749]

Yes it is. You can also try marble crayfish. They are parthenogenic and reproduce like crazy as well.

[formica]

Originally Posted by smy_749

Yes it is. You can also try marble crayfish. They are parthenogenic and reproduce like crazy as well.

intrigued, do they eat them out of water or off land? my new enclosure has a pool built into it, not enough for a crayfish to live in for long, but moving water, if my Sav will enjoy chasing them around occasionally when added then that sounds like excellent enrichment opportunity too!

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by formica

intrigued, do they eat them out of water or off land? my new enclosure has a pool built into it, not enough for a crayfish to live in for long, but moving water, if my Sav will enjoy chasing them around occasionally when added then that sounds like excellent enrichment opportunity too!

You could leave a few in a water bowl for him to hunt, not for them to live in. Get a ten gallon aquarium and a filter to house them in. And him a few here and there and once the colony picks up feed more etc. etc.

[infernalis]

Crayfish last about 4 seconds in my enclosure, so I would not anticipate you would have to wait long for them to be devoured.

[formica]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Crayfish last about 4 seconds in my enclosure, so I would not anticipate you would have to wait long for them to be devoured.

haha fair enough



tbh I think putting them in a water dish is making it to easy for them - i'm intrigued how they might deal with them in a couple of inches of water with space for the crayfish to put up a bit of a chase - all about enrichment

[franks]

I feed my monitor crayfish and cicadas in his water. He corners them, pulls them right out, pins them to his tree and does his monitor thing with them.

Regarding snail shells, Savannah Monitors do not digest the shell. In the autopsies done, many has snail shell parts stuck in them. Whether or not the lodged snail shell pieces would eventually come out on their own or not could not be determined, but I do not think feeding consistent meals of giant snails with the shell on is worth the risk. If you are going to go this route, I would try to remove them from the shells.

Daniel Bennett wrote:
"I don't think they do digest snail shells and I think normally fragments of shell pass through the gut. I have seen big fragments in stomachs that look like they have been there a long time, and in others species I've also found it very challenging to estimate rates of snail consumption from feces. Although I have never seen it, my impression is that the lizards try to remove as much shell as possible from large snails before they are swallowed, this obviously enhances the digestive process but also reduces the amount of the shell that enters the gut. Not many species of monitor lizard have the teeth and jaws to crush snails properly and I suspect that these species will eventually be found to have gut modifications that enhance the passage of shell fragments. If shell fragments are trapped in the stomach I expect they will break down over time (weeks - years?) but I don't think this is necessarily beneficial."

[formica]

as usual, conflicting opinions haha well, I am not planning on serving up fully grown 20cm giant snails to my Sav, but 1cm baby snails and larger as it grows, which I doubt it'll have a problem with - since posting this topic I have read in some journals that the giant snail is a favorite of Savanna monitors, and their jaws are designed for crushing the shells quite nicely

also would seem to be a favorite of Sav's that are allowed out on the leash by their owners, and the Savs know where to find them in peoples gardens - I find it very doubtful they are in anyway harmful (except in the case of wild snails containing parasites and pesticide residues perhaps)

[franks]

Originally Posted by formica

I find it very doubtful they are in anyway harmful

Based upon what?

What we know is:

In ghana, snails make up 2% of the adult monitor's diet
The Savannah Monitor has jaws powerful enough to crush snails shells
Snail shells do and can get stuck in the stomach and intestines

My opinion is similar to the situation with dogs. Do wild puppies and dogs chew on raw animal bone? Yes. But they also sometimes lacerate their insides on bone shard. Because they do it in the wild does not necessarily make it ideal in captivity. I am not trying to argue with you, feel free to feed as many snails as you want, I just wanted to provide you with the information necessary to make your decision. Many keepers feed snails, many do not. I know of a few that buy large snails with no shells from fish markets.

How is your little guy doing by the way?
Also, I am curious, does he climb? I have been discovering recently how adept my guy is at climbing and have been surprised.

[formica]

Originally Posted by franks

Based upon what?

What we know is:

In ghana, snails make up 2% of the adult monitor's diet
The Savannah Monitor has jaws powerful enough to crush snails shells
Snail shells do and can get stuck in the stomach and intestines

My opinion is similar to the situation with dogs. Do wild puppies and dogs chew on raw animal bone? Yes. But they also sometimes lacerate their insides on bone shard. Because they do it in the wild does not necessarily make it ideal in captivity. I am not trying to argue with you, feel free to feed as many snails as you want, I just wanted to provide you with the information necessary to make your decision. Many keepers feed snails, many do not. I know of a few that buy large snails with no shells from fish markets.

How is your little guy doing by the way?
Also, I am curious, does he climb? I have been discovering recently how adept my guy is at climbing and have been surprised.

he's doubled in size and yep climbs all over the place; definitly gona enjoy the new enclosure when its finished

re dogs and bones - i've heard vets suggest that bones are an important part of a dogs diet, as long as they are the right kind of bones, ie not chicken bones will lacerate - i recon the same probably applies to snails


agree about the salt content of welks being of concern for Savs Fuzzhc! besides which i'd probly eat them all myself before the monitor got a look in haha

[nepoez]

I was raised in Taiwan, and it was not until I moved to Canada that I see dogs so fragile that if fed a diet of anything other than dog food they seem to get sick. In Taiwan, dogs would eat anything and still thrive. And they are always seen eating people's left overs, including bones(fish, chicken, cow, rats). My neighbor's dogs all eat bones and I left the country after 8 years and the dogs were still healthy

Mind you, dogs in Taiwan are usually left to roam the village(where I lived) and are scavengers(owners let them) and are mostly very crossbred to a point where there are no real "breed" or classifications anymore, so lots of genetic problems that pure breed dogs we have in the west due to the practically incest cycles we breed them with, are not found in these dogs.

Originally Posted by formica

he's doubled in size and yep climbs all over the place; definitly gona enjoy the new enclosure when its finished

re dogs and bones - i've heard vets suggest that bones are an important part of a dogs diet, as long as they are the right kind of bones, ie not chicken bones will lacerate - i recon the same probably applies to snails


agree about the salt content of welks being of concern for Savs Fuzzhc! besides which i'd probly eat them all myself before the monitor got a look in haha

[fuzzhc]

Recently i have fed live welks to my sav. They are little sort of sea snails, not sure what they are called outside of scotland though lol, possibly the same. Anyways the shells were far too hard for him to crush, might aswell have been stone so i had to sit for an hour or so and pick each one out haha about a Kilo of them! Anyways he loved them

Edit: Just noticed you're from the uk. I'd imagine they would be quite easy for you to find if your near a costal town or city. They're cheap aswell think i payed like £1.50 for a Kilo or so.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by fuzzhc

Recently i have fed live welks to my sav. They are little sort of sea snails, not sure what they are called outside of scotland though lol, possibly the same. Anyways the shells were far too hard for him to crush, might aswell have been stone so i had to sit for an hour or so and pick each one out haha about a Kilo of them! Anyways he loved them

Edit: Just noticed you're from the uk. I'd imagine they would be quite easy for you to find if your near a costal town or city. They're cheap aswell think i payed like £1.50 for a Kilo or so.

Hi, seafood should only be offered very occasionally because of the salt content, and it should be thoroughly rinsed with water before feeding.