Captive feeding?

[smy_749]

Just 2 quick questions that struck my mind...

In captivity, are we trying recreate the fundamental 'niche' or the realized one found in the wild? (through temps, humidity, substrate depth etc.) how does this translate to how much you choose to feed your monitor? Has there been studies done on how much a typical monitor will eat in a day? How much do you guys generally feed, until full may be optimal for growth rate, but is it actually optimal for the health of the lizard? (these are genuine questions). I know in snakes, many discourage 'power feeding' as it results in a shorter lifespan or something. The same question goes for basking spots, etc. ---> Do we recreate what we find them basking at in the wild, or what is optimal for digestion? I hope I didn't confuse you.

Secondly, is it possible that monitors can actually be picky food wise, and we just don't observe that in the wild because they simply don't survive as a result? (My little rudi is active ALL day, I haven't seen him eat anything with my own eyes other than mice , as they are the only thing he will take from tongs) He won't touch fish, even if I leave it all night, and will only eat roaches and rickets when I'm not around..

[pdomensis]

Good questions. Though I don't know a thing about monitors, I'm pretty sure most herps are getting way more food in captivity than they would be able to track down in the wild, even without getting into power feeding. It's typically feast or famine in nature with most lifeforms barely surviving. That said, I would follow the advice of the folks who have had the best survival rates of their animals.

To your second question, I don't think wild animals can afford to be as finicky as they can in a cage with us catering to it. They eat what they can get. I know I give my beardie way more diversity than he would find in the scrub, and he gets to where he will snub his nose at certain foods.

[murrindindi]

Hi, can you define "powerfeeding"? Also, "typical monitor" (meaning what particular age, size, male, female, (gravid?), species, etc)?

It might just be that the reason your monitor doesn`t take the roaches and crickets in front of you is simply because he/she would need to be "exposed" for longer when searching/capturing them?

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, can you define "powerfeeding"? Also, "typical monitor" (meaning what particular age, size, male, female, (gravid?), species, etc)?

It might just be that the reason your monitor doesn`t take the roaches and crickets in front of you is simply because he/she would need to be "exposed" for longer when searching/capturing them?

I only chose the word powerfeeding as this is what is used by some in talking about snakes. I guess what I mean, s: feeding at a rate which causes extreme growth in a short period of time (which is fine)...but here is the catch...at a rate that is harmful to the health of the animal. I guess my question is, is that possible with monitors? Will they simply thrive, or is there any health risks or has anyone observed a correlation between feeding amount and lifespan?

Also by typical monitor, I don't mean to assume all species, or male/female/ gravid exhibit the same behavior. I guess what I should have written was " a typical healthy monitor within a specific age group/gender. Example: has anyone done a study on how much a bosc hatchling eats on a daily basis in the wild in order to maintain good health (perhaps by studying stomach contents and rate of digestion)? How often do adult male lace monitors feed weekly? etc. etc. And if there is info on this, do you try to recreate it in captivity?

And also I agree with what you said about mine, perhaps he is a bad example. Has anyone observed 2 healthy monitors of the same species, with different taste / preferences in food? Or are all the same?

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by smy_749

I only chose the word powerfeeding as this is what is used by some in talking about snakes. I guess what I mean, s: feeding at a rate which causes extreme growth in a short period of time (which is fine)...but here is the catch...at a rate that is harmful to the health of the animal. I guess my question is, is that possible with monitors? Will they simply thrive, or is there any health risks or has anyone observed a correlation between feeding amount and lifespan?

Also by typical monitor, I don't mean to assume all species, or male/female/ gravid exhibit the same behavior. I guess what I should have written was " a typical healthy monitor within a specific age group/gender. Example: has anyone done a study on how much a bosc hatchling eats on a daily basis in the wild in order to maintain good health (perhaps by studying stomach contents and rate of digestion)? How often do adult male lace monitors feed weekly? etc. etc. And if there is info on this, do you try to recreate it in captivity?

And also I agree with what you said about mine, perhaps he is a bad example. Has anyone observed 2 healthy monitors of the same species, with different taste / preferences in food? Or are all the same?

Feeding snakes a lot is not the problem. Obesity is the problem, and when you feed a snake that much and keep it in a tiny cage, of course it gets fat. Liver failure or heart problems are common.. I would be willing to bet a lot of money if those snakes were given higher basking temperatures and room to move, they could be fed a lot without getting fat and having health problems... In short, as long as the animal is at a healthy weight, the amount of food should not cause any problems, just growth. Ever see a wild snake that was obese, even in a spot swarming with food? They're big and healthy, but never fat.

It's definitely worth mentioning that snakes have much slower metabolisms than monitors do, at least in captivity.

[smy_749]

Makes sense, will be rehoming my little guy this saturday. Then I have to think about what to get next so I can start building a proper enclosure...Sort of wish I could lend him to a buddy just for a while, unfortunately I don't have any who keep reptiles..

I think I'm just over thinking these days, have nothing better to do and it seemed like a good question this morning lol

So I have an unrelated question now, but I don't feel like spamming the forums here with new topics every hour....I'm starting to see blackthroats again (snakes@sunset, ken fooses store in LV has one up, and somewhere else) I thought they banned export from tanzania? Are they getting them from somewhere else or was it just a false alarm?

[murrindindi]

Hi again, why would fast growth in itself cause health problems? If an animal is properly supported, it functions at it`s full potential (which surely is healthy)?
Yes, Dr. Daniel Bennett has done some work on wild V. exathematicus diet and has published the results, Wayne`s the best one to ask for links to those (I know he has some).
Lace monitors (in the wild), like many other species usually feed daily, not necessarily large meals/prey, which in fact is what many other species do. In captivity you can do the same, or feed larger meals less frequently (I practice the former most of the time). At the end of the day you/we should feed as much energy as they use, if we feed more than they can use they will become overweight, especially once adult (no matter how high the surface temps at the basking site are)! It`s really quite simple.... Captivity at it`s best is in some respects, better than the wild (or should be)!
One of my previous Asian water monitors would take many types of insects and refused rodents for the first 6 months, yet my current male has never taken a single insect (not for the want of trying), since the day I got him! I have a question for you: Why not????

[Pirarucu]

Question every detail of the animal's husbandry, that's the only way improvements are made. I offer my Retic a basking spot of 120-130 and he uses it. Take that, conventional thought..

They placed more restrictions on the species, but they can still be exported. It's just a smaller number each year.