my lavendar cornsnake starved himself to death

[rmfsnakes32]

I am sad my brand new lavader cornsnake refused to eat on the 3rd week I force fed because he was abviously weak he then regurged that back up friday I thawed out a pinky mouse and found him belly up in his water dish! Pleazse no nasty remarks about so called husbandry I know mine was right I believe I got a snake that was not an established eater

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by rmfsnakes32

I am sad my brand new lavader cornsnake refused to eat on the 3rd week I force fed because he was abviously weak he then regurged that back up friday I thawed out a pinky mouse and found him belly up in his water dish! Pleazse no nasty remarks about so called husbandry I know mine was right I believe I got a snake that was not an established eater

Baby rats, milks and corns can be very stubborn.

Breeder or pet shop?

[CK SandBoas]

How long did you have the cornsnake before it passed away? And what were the temps and setup like? Also, how often was it offered prey? And force feeding should only be done as a last resort, and by someone who has experience with the technique.

Sorry about the loss of your little one.....

[shaunyboy]

i'm not having a go at you mate,but force feeding should be a last drastic option

how old was the snake ?

when did it last feed before the force feeding ?

what were your hot end temps ?

sorry for all the questions,but they will help us figure out what may have been wrong

that said...

snakes die through no fault of the keeper

i'm sorry for your loss

cheers shaun

[Donnie]

Sorry to hear of your loss

[exwizard]

I got Rmf this snake from a breeder at the Tinley Park show which was 3 weeks ago. He was a baby and very small. We tried multiple time to feed him but to no avail. We did try to force feed him at a mutual friend's house earlier this week but he regurged on the way back home. We were going to try it again soon because it became critical that he get something in him but he died before we had the chance to do that. Looking back it's aparrent that this snake was not an established eater when we got him but that's only a suspicion of mine. Anyway, that's what happened.

[marvelfreak]

Originally Posted by exwizard

I got Rmf this snake from a breeder at the Tinley Park show which was 3 weeks ago. He was a baby and very small. We tried multiple time to feed him but to no avail. We did try to force feed him at a mutual friend's house earlier this week but he regurged on the way back home. We were going to try it again soon because it became critical that he get something in him but he died before we had the chance to do that. Looking back it's aparrent that this snake was not an established eater when we got him but that's only a suspicion of mine. Anyway, that's what happened.

I would be contacting the breeder.

[Lankyrob]

Originally Posted by exwizard

I got Rmf this snake from a breeder at the Tinley Park show which was 3 weeks ago. He was a baby and very small. We tried multiple time to feed him but to no avail. We did try to force feed him at a mutual friend's house earlier this week but he regurged on the way back home. We were going to try it again soon because it became critical that he get something in him but he died before we had the chance to do that. Looking back it's aparrent that this snake was not an established eater when we got him but that's only a suspicion of mine. Anyway, that's what happened.

Isnt transporting a snake after eating (especially force feeding which is stressful in itself) an issue? I would also say that trying "multiple times" in just three weeks is kinda excessive too. How many times did you try in the three weeks?

Personally i would say that there was something more serious wrong than it just not eating if it went downhill that fast

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by exwizard

I got Rmf this snake from a breeder at the Tinley Park show which was 3 weeks ago. He was a baby and very small. We tried multiple time to feed him but to no avail. We did try to force feed him at a mutual friend's house earlier this week but he regurged on the way back home. We were going to try it again soon because it became critical that he get something in him but he died before we had the chance to do that. Looking back it's aparrent that this snake was not an established eater when we got him but that's only a suspicion of mine. Anyway, that's what happened.

Who drives home with a snake they just force fed? I also highly doubt it was force feeding. Probably assist feeding. Force is when you literally take a pinky pump and pump pinky puree into the snake's stomach. Highly doubt it was that.

Anyway, who did you buy the snake from? One of the big breeders or a small timer who had them for cheaper than anyone else?

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Anyway, who did you buy the snake from? One of the big breeders or a small timer who had them for cheaper than anyone else?

For those who wonder why both Aaron and I asked this..

Every breeding season for the last several years, I have lost neonate snakes from refusal to eat. (trust me, force feeding a 4mm diameter snake is not easy.. never had any success with it.)

A breeder with integrity would never sell an animal until it was established feeding, meaning it has taken a few meals without hesitation.

Often this takes a lot of work, for instance... Baby corn snakes may require a live anole or two at first to "trigger" the feeding response, some may even require starting this way and then gradually moving to pinkies.

Now we have invested time (often weeks) getting the baby to eat, and we can't charge a penny more for the work put in.

Here is a first hand example - Toby my Black Racer was $10 when I purchased him, he would eat nothing but live anoles (at $6 each) for the first two months before he would even consider a pinkie.

That's around $100 worth of feedings just to get to the part where he would eat pinkies for me. If I tried to sell a $10 snake for $110, no one would ever buy it.

So quite a few breeders will just sell the baby without putting in the effort.

Several breeders I know just put down the stubborn snakes (unless we are talking a high dollar morph) rather than get egg in the face later for selling a non feeding baby.

[exwizard]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Who drives home with a snake they just force fed?

Hindsight is 20/20

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I also highly doubt it was force feeding. Probably assist feeding. Force is when you literally take a pinky pump and pump pinky puree into the snake's stomach. Highly doubt it was that.

If that is what you call force feeding then what they did was assist feeding.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Anyway, who did you buy the snake from? One of the big breeders or a small timer who had them for cheaper than anyone else?

I dont remember who the breeder was. The Tinley Park show was so big and there was a lot of people there including all the vendors. There was so much going on there. When we saw that little Lavender there and when I saw Rmf's excitement at finally seeing an available Lavender, I decided to get it for her.

[shaunyboy]

FORCE feeding = cutting the legs off a pinkie and pushing it down the snakes throat,then massaging it down to is stomach

FORCE feeding = using a pinkie pump,it's a metal syringe that turns the pinkie into pulp,then pulp is squirted down snakes throat

FORCE feeding = using a syringe,infant feeding tube cut to the appropriate length,high protien cat/dog food from the vets,watered down into a paste,that will go through the feeding tube,the feeding tube is manovered down the snakes throat far enough,so that the paste goes down into the stomach and not back out the snakes mouth (i use this same method,for administering medication)

ASSIST feeding = putting a pinkies head into the snakes mouth,then allowing the snake to do the rest

FORCE FEEDING,should be a very last resort...!!

cheers shaun

P.S.the above is NOT directed at the op,i just wanted to clarify what force feeding is

[exwizard]

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

FORCE feeding = cutting the legs off a pinkie and pushing it down the snakes throat,then massaging it down to is stomach

FORCE feeding = using a pinkie pump,it's a metal syringe that turns the pinkie into pulp,then pulp is squirted down snakes throat

FORCE feeding = using a syringe,infant feeding tube cut to the appropriate length,high protien cat/dog food from the vets,watered down into a paste,that will go through the feeding tube,the feeding tube is manovered down the snakes throat far enough,so that the paste goes down into the stomach and not back out the snakes mouth (i use this same method,for administering medication)

ASSIST feeding = putting a pinkies head into the snakes mouth,then allowing the snake to do the rest

FORCE FEEDING,should be a very last resort...!!

cheers shaun

P.S.the above is NOT directed at the op,i just wanted to clarify what force feeding is

I was going by your definition Shaun. It doesnt matter now anyway. Whats done is done and theres nothing that can be done about it now. Its like beating a dead horse into the ground. She tried to keep it alive by resorting to this but apparantly it was just a little too late. Again, hindsight is 20/20. In the future, any other snakes we get, we will make sure that it has already been established as an eater before we get it.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by exwizard

I dont remember who the breeder was. The Tinley Park show was so big and there was a lot of people there including all the vendors. There was so much going on there. When we saw that little Lavender there and when I saw Rmf's excitement at finally seeing an available Lavender, I decided to get it for her.

Bingo..... If I had no conscience, shows would be exactly where I would pedal my non feeding neonates.

Don't hang up a banner, don't pass out business cards, just sell them and run for the hills.

[bushsnake]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Bingo..... If I had no conscience, shows would be exactly where I would pedal my non feeding neonates.

Don't hang up a banner, don't pass out business cards, just sell them and run for the hills.

I know many people that vend at Tinley its the kind of show where people bust out theyre best stuff and that goes for pretty much everyone