Something new here...

mykee · 05-29-12, 09:20 AM

Had something happen here yesterday morning that I have not seen in 225 clutches over more than a decade: I had a gravid female lay seven big, healthy, white, veineous eggs 18 days POS. In my previous experiences, any eggs laid prior to day 25 have been slugs.
Anyone had any experiences with this or input into whether or not they'll survive the incubation process?

**Aaron_S** · 05-29-12, 09:23 AM

If they candled well I'm sure they'll be ok sir.

Trollbie · 05-29-12, 09:24 AM

What does POS mean?

Yes this probably a dumb question, but I haven't gotten as far as breeding.

mykee · 05-29-12, 09:26 AM

Shush Aaron, I know your opinion on the matter.
I want to hear from everyone else.
POS = Post Ovulation Shed.

**Aaron_S** · 05-29-12, 09:25 AM

Annnnnd point proven.

Trollbie · 05-29-12, 09:40 AM

Thanks....

Gungirl · 05-29-12, 09:50 AM

I don't see why they wouldn't survive the incubation if they candle well. Are you sure your #'s are right and these aren't later than you think?

If an egg candles with veins that shows it's viable and as long as you have no issues with your incubation there is no real reason they shouldn't make it.

mykee · 05-29-12, 09:58 AM

Yes, I'm anal with my record keeping.
They candled fine, but their development is ~10 days less than most eggs that are out of the female. Eggs develop differently in the female as opposed to being exposed to the environment.
Has anyone experienced this before?

shaunyboy · 05-29-12, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykee

Had something happen here yesterday morning that I have not seen in 225 clutches over more than a decade: I had a gravid female lay seven big, healthy, white, veineous eggs 18 days POS. In my previous experiences, any eggs laid prior to day 25 have been slugs.
Anyone had any experiences with this or input into whether or not they'll survive the incubation process?

what is the normal range in days between,observed ovulation and pre lay shed ?

i'm thinking she had her shed,on the latest possible day in that range,so the eggs had more time,to become fully developed ?

for instance a jungle can have its pos,from 17 to 22 days,so if it shed on day 22,then the eggs would have the best part of a week,over eggs on day 17 pos,to develop fully

other than that,you may have a python,who's eggs develop at a faster rate than normal,hence the eggs being healthy on day 18 after pre lay shed (pos)

^^^^^
i hope that makes sense

what is the accepted normal range for laying,after pre lay shed (pos) in royal pythons ?

re survival
if they are candling with a good network of viens,then i see no reason for them not to hatch

congratulations on the clutch mate

cheers shaun

Will0W783 · 05-29-12, 11:55 AM

Hmm, very interesting Mykee. I would think that they will survive as long as they candled with veins visible. However, I would imagine they might have a longer incubation period than a clutch that was laid at the normal time. Eggs develop more rapidly inside the female than outside, right?

mykee · 05-29-12, 12:17 PM

The "normal" (if there is such a thing) time from ovulation to POS for ball pythons is 14-21 days. She went 16 days. Then 28-40 days from POS to laying. She went 18.

shaunyboy · 05-29-12, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykee

The "normal" (if there is such a thing) time from ovulation to POS for ball pythons is 14-21 days. She went 16 days. Then 28-40 days from POS to laying. She went 18.

so she was within the accepted average/normal range,between ovulation and POS (stating the obvious)

but she was a full 10 days earlier,than the accepted average/normal range,between POS and laying, (again stating the obvious)

wow mate,that's pretty early.....!!!

what are your thoughts,on her having such rapid egg development,compared to the accepted average/norm ?

mother nature loves to throw us a " curve ball " (pardon the pun

),every now and then.....

you may well be on to something mate

cheers shaun

jarich · 05-29-12, 12:59 PM

Is this a first clutch/new female? If not, what were the previous clutches laid at? I assume that given your set up, there would be no other parameters that would differ for this one snake. How quickly did you get them out after they were laid? In either case my instinct would be that they will not go full term. I say instinct though, as my experience is pretty limited. I only bred the three females I had for a few years. The only time I remember having an early deposition, none of the eggs were viable.

It would be interesting to do blood work on your female and see if there is anything unusual that could be noted.

jaleely · 05-29-12, 07:45 PM

I have not heard of this in any of the things I've been reading, or seen it with some other breeders I talk with.

What's her past history with sheds, eating, etc.? Just curious. Maybe she has a super metabolism or something...not quite valid to egg laying, but she may just process the energy better into the eggs. It'll be interesting to see how they develop. Do keep us posted! With pics =P (You should take a pic of one of them candled!)