This Is A Must Read!!!

vetteman21 · 02-09-05, 10:12 PM

this is an apsolute must read! and once uv read it please spread it around to all the forums and what not u can to help this guy out!
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Dear Group
I am sorry for cross posting this over various mailing lists, forums and bothering you with off topic threads.
The below text is a description of the legislation around herptiles in Norway and the implications of getting caught with illegal animals.

As You may know, herptiles are illegal to keep, breed, import and export in Norway.
Norway is 1 out of 2-3 countries in the world where herptiles are illegal. For what reasons?
In Hawaii herptiles are illegal (as far as I understand) because animals who escape from private collections are likely to reproduce and may cause a potential threat to native flora and fauna. This is in my opinion a reasonable reason for banning herptiles in Hawaii.

In Norway the situation is totally different, here the winter is long, cold and there are extremely few herptile species that can survive the harsh climatic condition of the Norway.
Why reptiles are illegal in my country? Your guess is as good as mine, probably due to prejudice against herptiles from the part of politicians uneducated on the matter.

Animals confiscated by the Norwegian government are put to death (perhaps with very rare exceptions in the cases of extremely rare and endangered species).

Thursday the police came knocking on my door and all my animals are now considered confiscated. My house is sealed off with police tape and no one is allowed to go into it.
On Monday the police will return to my house with the district veterinary to confiscate my animals. At a near point in the future my animals will most likely be put to death and there is little I can do about it except hiring a lawyer and hoping for a miracle.

This is not a call for help for my part, but on behalf of herptiles and herpetoculturists in my country.
I have started a roll call and hope to gather as many signatures as possible as a peaceful protest protest against the Norwegian government's persecution of herpetoculturists in Norway.
I believe that the legislation in my country is wrong and that all herptile species are not unjustifiable to keep as captives.
The Norwegian herpetological association has struggled for 12 years to lift the ban on herpetoculture in my country without success so far. We can’t seem to put enough pressure on our government to make things happen.
The roll call I have initiated is also a protest and sharp criticism against animals being confiscated and put to death as a consequence of the Norwegian legislation.

If you agree that governments shouldn’t be so restrictive as to bann all herpetoculture within a country, please take the time to visit the below link and sign the roll call.
http://www.opprop.no/opprop.php?id=befrireptiler

Please feel free to pass this post onto other relevant mailinglists and forums so that as as many people as possible may sign this role call if they wish.

Again I am sorry to occupy your time with this kind of inquiery, have a nice day.
Best regards
Vålen Gånev (obeligz)
Committee member of the Norwegian Herpetological Association
e-mail/msn: obeligz@c2i.net

JimmyDavid · 02-11-05, 01:25 PM

I understand his problem.

I know the problems it can lead to, having some animals here in portugal. You can't have boids, but you can have (for example) Naja snakes...Now, tell me where is there a valid reason behind that?!
Well, guess what? I KEEP BOIDS and i have papers from Spain, wich is where they come from, but still i could be in trouble because the Portuguese law disregards spanish documents (wich is stupid because it goes against the European convention for free trade).
Oh well, what can i do? only Expect that NOBODY tries to give me a hard time about it, because then i would have to send someone to the hospital and we would ALL hate that...

gonesnakee · 02-11-05, 03:22 PM

Jimmy you just admitted on an open public forum that you are keeping illegal specimens, bad idea. Over here the "authorities" monitor these forums & take action occassionaly based on posts made etc. Irreguardless of how stupid laws are or we think they are, they are laws. To openly admit to be breaking them here is an unnessicary risk to take both for yourself & your Boids IMHO (look at the very nature of this post for example) VG above was most likely targeted by authorities as a direct result of his involvement in the Herp society of a country were herps are illegal (sad but true) Mark
P.S. Big Brother can & does watch us!

marisa · 02-11-05, 03:45 PM

Not to mention breaking herp laws, no matter how stupid they are, makes the whole hobby look bad.

Marisa

JimmyDavid · 02-11-05, 04:27 PM

What distinguishes a real MAN, from man-look a likes is that real men have nothing to hide and are not afraid of saying things out loud.

I KEEP BOIDS, do i need to say it again? I KEEP BOIDS! If my actions should lead to judicial matter with the authorities of my country, that would be just fine. I would most certainly gather as much media around it as possible, Perhaps it would shake the very foundations on what these laws are based on and by doing that i would be giving another needfull step towards the goal that i (and so many others) are fighting for so long, wich is to question these laws and change them if possible.
And i can't do that by hiding. I'm a fighter.

Just the other day (here in portugal) The institute for nature's conservation confiscated a tiger from a park. Papers were not good, they said. Well, the truth is that with or without papers the tiger was just fine under the park's care, but he died 2 days later at the ends of the institute because those jerks either didn't know what to do or didn't care. It's against these things that i battle, my friends. Do you think i'm afraid? You're wrong.

gonesnakee · 02-11-05, 04:41 PM

No ones questioning your status as a man or anything LOL Just hate to see a fellow herper possibly targeted by "da Man" for pursuing his passions. As far as afraid goes, sorry to hear about the Tiger : ( but as a Man I would be very afraid for my Herps to be taken only to be destroyed or neglected to death in the same fashion as the Tiger mentioned. This has nothing to do with the size of 1's balls LOL (even though the issue is not at all funny). The "Authority Song" is playing in my head here "I fought the law, but the law won, I fought the law, but the law won" Fighting the Good fight is what its all about, but I personally wouldn't put my Herps at risk while doing so (there are ways to do so without). I don't nessicarily like the Herp laws where I live either, but will not risk my entire collection by violating them over a few illegal specimens (just MHO). Good Luck with the fight Man, we are all on the same side here, Cheers Mark

Leviathan · 02-11-05, 04:54 PM

Marisa, almost every single person has broke a herp law. How do you think we have beardeds for example. Australia NEVER let anyone have them. Or why do people sell Lace monitors, Perentie, the largest names in the reptile world got there by having rare animals. Why were they rare? Because you couldn't have them and how did they get them? Well they didn't swim across the ocean and end up on someones lawn. We wouldn't have half the animals in Canada we have if somebody didn't bend the laws.

As for Jimmy, good for you! As people we are told every day in movies ect. to fight for what we love at all costs and that is exactly what you are doing! 100 years ago black people weren't considered people and they broke the law and escaped to Canada to freedom! If ANYONE wants to say that the laws are always right say it now!

JimmyDavid · 02-11-05, 04:54 PM

Thanks man.
I'm not even the one seated on the hot seat here, since the law let's you have boids if you can proove you make a living out of it unless it's apendix I animals. But i feel sorry for all those people that have had their animals confiscated because ALL THEY DID was to care for an animal and give it a good home. My fight goes in name of all those. So, if any stupid ICN enforcer is out there reading my post :
COME OUT, COME OUT, WHERE EVER YOU ARE!

gonesnakee · 02-11-05, 05:22 PM

Again Good Luck to Jimmy & more importantly to VG above, our hearts are with you. Alecia knowing me personally I hope you don't think I would actually support anything the Govt or others of "authority" try to push on us LOL I'm very anti-establishment as you should know LOL. If I thought it would work I'd be all for Anarchy, but maybe someday we may find that happy medium? (in a perfect world LOL) Still if I were in direct violation of a known law that would put myself & more importantly all my Herps at risk of being destroyed, I wouldn't be letting the whole world know about it, again just MHO Mark
P.S. Can't always beat them, but definitely not going to join them!
P.P.S. Can't really relate Slavery as being a very relevant example here, & of course no one (well no one I would consider lisening too) can argue that it was right.

Nicky · 02-11-05, 05:26 PM

blah link won't work for me

, anyone else have the same problem or is it just my stupid old computer.

gonesnakee · 02-11-05, 05:32 PM

I meant to mention that it doesn't work also, Mark

beanersmysav · 02-11-05, 06:31 PM

I agree with Jimmy. New York regardless of the thousands of letters sent in by many herpers to stop the ban of large pythons, boids and monitors, the government here in NY still banned them. Luckily for me I don't have any of the illegal reptiles and if I did I'd apply for a liscense since I'd be grandfathered in because I owned them before hand and if I ever get one in the future I'll get a liscense to be safe. Either way it's b/s and I'm sure none of us agree that what the governments are doing is wrong in every aspect.

The sad part is believe it or not alot of the herpetologist and animal rights groups are the ones behind this and are trying to get the gov't to realize the wrong in captive care of reptiles. I know of multiple groups here in the states that are fighting to end all captivity with reptiles. If that day ever comes I think I would have to do something extreme but untill that day comes I'll fight to the legal extent to keep my right to raise captive animals my right!

However the gov't here in NY is getting scary there's a good possiblity low rider jeans will soon be illegal. I'm not a fan of having my a$$ hang out but if someone feels the need to do it, so what? But that's a whole nother subject.

JAdkins2451 · 02-11-05, 10:20 PM

I agree with Gonesnakee..If you decide to keep illegal animals there is no need to tell the whole world. And I dosent mean that your a bigger man if you do.. Where I live your not allowed to keep certian reptiles. I own some your not allowed to keep. And nobody really knows, except my friends and family. I feel there is no reason for anybody else to know. And I only do that for the sake of the animals. Thsi just my opinion

Jamie

JimmyDavid · 02-11-05, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JAdkins2451
I own some your not allowed to keep. And nobody really knows, except my friends and family. I feel there is no reason for anybody else to know.

Jamie

Well, now EVERYBODY knows. Haha!

herpers2 · 02-11-05, 11:25 PM

We also agree that you should keep quiet about the reptiles you have, ESPECIALLY if they are illegal. Ours are perfectly legal, but word got out and the ignorance of our neighbors has made us have to fight in court next Thursday just to be able to keep them.
Good luck to all herpers in Norway!! Frank and Kristy