Talk About... Quarantine Practices!

[Tim_Cranwill]

Truthfully, I don't really “quarantine” at all. I definitely see the point of it but here is the kicker for me;

I have a collection of around 80 animals right now and I make purchases fairly often. All my snakes are kept in one fair-sized "L" shaped room in my basement. Let's say I get a new snake tomorrow and I keep it in a room upstairs, away from my collection for 3 months but after 2 months I get 3 more new snakes. Where do I put those? In that same room? In another room? And what if I get a couple more snakes later that month? See where I'm going with this?

I’m not crazy about what I am doing (more so NOT doing) currently but unless I have 5 or 6 rooms to quarantine animals in, I don’t see the point. Animals get checked over thoroughly and treated for mites regardless of the source; I learned THAT lesson the hard way. I try to keep them away from my new animals but the more I think about it, the more I am of the thought that if I can’t quarantine 100% properly, there isn’t much point. I worked in a Bio-Pharmaceutical plant for a while and there I learned what quarantine REALLY is. It’s not just housing them in the next room for a few weeks. It’s not adding new animals to animals already in quarantine. It is a very stringent routine that must be followed to the extreme or else it’s all kind of pointless.

This problem also applies to shows. If I go tot a show and bring 30 animals to sell and I sell 25 and purchase 6 new ones, do the 5 left from my stock now go into quarantine? They should. What do you guys do in this case as well?

What I would like to do is have a few rooms (3+) designated for quarantine that each have a different "levels". What I mean by this is each animal that comes in to my house goes in room 1 for one month (Level 1). In that room, animals are kept in very clean conditions and monitored closely for external and internal parasites. They would also get a blanket treatment for some of the more common “ailments”. Then, after one month, they would graduate to “Level 2” for a month which would be somewhat less strict and then to “level 3” until they would be introduced into the “general population”. But this method, while being as close to “right” as I can think of is a good one, it still has some errors.


So, that’s kind of where I stand. What are your opinions and methods?

[marisa]

I see your points. And frankly I never thought about them before.

But I really believe anyone who wants a totally safe collection will quarantine. I personally do the best I can with each and every newcomer here. All new snakes are kept on another level of my home for 3 -6 months (sometimes even more for whatever reasons), while my collection is kept in it's own room upstairs. It's about protecting my current snakes, and I want to do everything RIGHT from the very start. I couldn't bare the thought of passing something to my current snakes just because I "had to have something"

The problem I see is people running out space, not having another room etc. In this case, the solution is simple....we cannot all have huge collections unless we have the means.

I do not have three rooms for snakes. I have two. Which means I cannot simply "push more in" or "make more room" You don't do that. You own only animals you can fully properly care for.

I feel soemtimes that the urge to get more and more makes all the snakes in ones collection suffer. And once that happens, your snake business might suffer as well.

Marisa
P.S. Edit to add: This is what *I* do for my own piece of mind.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Very true about the space issue, but my point was more about "shotty" quarantine not being much better than no quarantine. I have the space to do what I would like to (3 bedroom, two story house with a full basement), but I still don't see it as being that effective... or much more effective than what I'm doing now.

A few questions.
Do you take animals out before or after new ones come into your quarantine room? What is the deciding factor between animals staying in quarantine for 3 months or 6 months?

[marisa]

Tim- Actually I leave them "in" longer if I enjoy watching them! LMAO Seriously. I have all new arrivals in a very easily viewable area for keeping a good eye on them. My reptile room is out of the way upstairs, but new arrivals are in a easy place to walk by everyday. If I want to "hang around" the snake longer, it stays there. LOL

I can't really say if I take them out before or after. My boyfriend and I have worked really hard not to buy more than we can handle, or more than a few things twice a year or less. Obviously this is our own personal choice and I can understand people who pick up new snakes every month. But for us, it's a non issue.


Marisa

[Tim_Cranwill]

Ooooh, restraint. I've heard of that.

[marisa]

Oh BTW my opinion or practices are a mute point really as a lot of people here have 50, 100 or more snakes where your questions are really valid ones.

We on the other hand have the financial and space means to purchase more, but prefer to go really slow. We still have less than 20 snakes after being in this for four years now.

Marisa

[CDN-Cresties]

In my situation, I have a relatively small collection, I always house new additions in a different room and use different equipment for 3 months. During this time I moniter thier behaviour and make sure that everything is normal. I also keep any new additions enclosures simple ie..papertowels, etc.
My only downfall I would say is that I dont get fecal exams done but i should.

Quarantine is an all or nothing procedure, if your not committed to it, its useless. I can see how it becomes very difficult for those who have massive collections.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

TIM CRANWILL:

This will be a very good post to see many opinions and techiques on quarantine. It is true this is an extensive practice in so many factors from space to house these singled out animals - medication - and time involved. I know alot of people that some of these factors create problems in there small to large collections. The biggest being space and having an effective system at time.

Here at my facility I decided early on a large scale, just because I planned out that once being experienced enough in the hobby I would evolve to more species and breed my select choices per season. That alone means I need space. So when I bought my house I already saw serious demolition and reconstruction of the basement level. Like many houses where basements are handy man construction jobs, you see lots of wasted space and multi - rooms that are more like closets than rooms at all. So the idea was put into plan and most of that level was destroyed and built up in 6 rooms. Where 2 of them are quarantine levels about the size of average walk in closets. First room is 1 - 6 months and the other 7 - 12 months. In that plan I hope I have well established animals that later go into the other rooms of either boas or pythons, some even reach the display and breeding room. Even now as we speak I am taking down room 6 that was to be my office and was built for that but now will be converted to the babies born each season.

Depending on what I think the animal in quarantine may or may not have I will prescribe the medication needed, so far other than treating 3 WC Emeralds in 2003, and a few animals I got back in 2001 at some Alberta shows with mites. The system has been rather low in need but I still separate animals due to species and value away from the main collection. I simply feel why put all your eggs in 1 basket....meaning the risk on 1 animal is insane on the serious risk of the collection. Each room has its own tools, water supply and bowls, and bedding.

I even wash up (hands to shoulders) with Virosan and soaps on each animal handling and being in each room, I know its extensive even with the healthy animals but you never know really, and the risk can always happen.

I even installed humidifiers with NIX treatment if I think new purchases might be carriers. I now automatically spray every new animal with NIX for 7 days and then watch to see the results. Every animal gets a fresh water soak for 30 minutes before getting a new cage after being purchased. There cages get sprayed heavy with NIX as well. I feel this extensive process saves me lots of headaches after.

As for new animals I separate each quarantine room in half like right / left and because I do not do alot of regular purchases each week or so I feel the split is done more on monthly purchases, but again its the value of the animal that will gain the right to a few options I try in each quarantine room. Example I would not put $100 Ball Python with a $2000 Boa Constrictor in same quarantine room.

As for deciding the time frames its simple in my case because I normally only buy babies and since they got a long time to reach adulthood the 6 month - 12 month deal works fine. I recently picked up a Ball Python that is in quarantine and ready to breed to my girls, so I am in crazy situation that was not part of the facility rules. So I deciced that room 2 will be part quarantine and part breeding room, since its not in use for anything at the moment. The Boas I had in it graduated to the adult room and this might be the best idea for the Ball Python and its mates.

When I first decided the overhaul of this level in the house my only main concern was to protect these animals from quarantine situations and now that everything is functional I am rather pleased. Now I just need to make each season pay for this peace of mind, lol.

But for people who can' t do this it is best to divide up some space away from your main collection, even a normal sized closet can be effective to protect your collection in another room or level. Practice quarantine, because in the end all it takes is 1 slip up and the rest pay for it. Years ago I was in aquaria with high end Discus fish and that is harder to quarantine than reptiles, and when I saw people disregard quarantine practices I saw full blown dissasters where 1 fish wiped out there whole collection and that fish survived. In those cases most of the high end Discus that people were bringing in from Hong Kong or Singapore were gorgeous but could never be put with established collections. These fish were gorgeous buy very sick with what is called Discus Plague - a cross between cancer and AIDS and its effects. They looked healthy but anything other than those would not survive in 3 weeks. Best way to explain this is check out your local fish hobby store, and look for Discus and especially types called Pigeon Bloods (lots of colors and types) but all are same genes. These will look healthy and the normals and CB wilds are all dark and dying, then ask the store keeper which came first the normals or Pigeons in that tank and you will soon see my point.

Holy I am writing beyond what I was planning on...lol.

Well, be nice to see other people' s views and quarantine methods.

Cya...

Tony

[Linds]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
I try to keep them away from my new animals but the more I think about it, the more I am of the thought that if I can’t quarantine 100% properly, there isn’t much point.

I definitely have to disagree with that. While we may not be able to prevent anything airborne from entering our collections without having seperate buildings to be used for such, and for that reason I don't feel bad about not having a second room in which to house my animals, I feel that some sort of quarantine should be practiced to prevent any other possible diseases. Many diseases and infections are passed through contact with bodily fluids/excrement, and this is totally preventable.

All my animals have their own set of sponges, which each have their own compartments so they do not touch eachother at any time. In between handling each animal, I wash my hands with dishsoap up to my elbows or shoulders and give a good soaking with 99% isopropyl alcohol. I make sure when cleaning to take in to consideration action and placement when disposing of stuff to avoid any aerosols. When touching something communal, such as bedding, I wash my hands again first as to not carry anything over. For the most part, I tend to stick to this routine even after any set evaluation period has passed.

I do pretreat for mites, any animals coming in to my collection. I used to 'shotgun' treat with fenbendazole any animals entering, but have discontinued that practice, as I feel it to be unnecessary. Antiparasitic drugs wreak havoc on an animal's system, no matter how 'mild' it is said to be, and I only treat animals now which actually need to be treated. If animals are healthy and continue to be so, unaffected, then there is no reason to be poisoning them.

[tonyj]

This is a great topic with few finite solutions I would suggest.

Prevention is far better than a cure, but as most of us find out sooner or later, even prevention is not a sure fire way to guarantee a problem free environment.

If, as we are told, mites, to name but one potential problem, can travel relatively quickly (many feet in an hour) within a room, then surely those same mites are capable of travelling throughout more than one room or level in a fairly short time.

I am basically a one snake room operation, but I do use another room on a different floor for quarantining any new arrivals.
New arrivals will stay in the 'qurantine' room for 2-3 months and are regularly inspected with a jewellers eyeglass for any signs of external parasites, as are all my snakes.
All newcomers are given a complete submersion bath in a 'Nix' solution before being placed in the quarantine area, and will receive further 'Nix' baths over the next months before going into my snake room proper.
My main snake population will also receive a 'Nix' bath every month or so.
Each time I clean any enclosure (every one or two weeks) I use a disinfectant spray to wipe down the enclosure. My daughter works as a dental technologist and gets me a product that is used in dental surgeries. I'm not sure if this is generally available, but there are no doubt equivalents at the local drugstore.

I use these 'cleanouts' as an opportunity to handle snakes and look forward to these sessions.

I also make good use of pest strips. Narrow strips of 'Vapona" are placed in pierced 35mm film cannisters and every couple of weeks or so I 'blitz' the snakeroom with these. I can get 8 cannisters from one $10 packet.
I place them in random spots; floors, shelves, maybe in an enclosure, for a few hours and repeat the process 4-5days later. These things will last for around two months. then I spend another $10.

As I said earlier this strategy only addresses mites, but after attending shows, visiting pet shops or other peoples snakerooms at least I feel like I am trying to stay ahead of the game just a little.

Incidentally I normally keep over 30 adult and sub-adult boas and pythons.

[Invictus]

Tim, you've summed up in exact detail what I am faced with in my own collection! And your idea of graduated quaratine rooms is EXACTLY what I'm trying to set up here.

You're right though - proper quarantine is damn near impossible. If you wanted to do proper quarantine, you would need to keep a single batch of animals in contact with nothing but each other for 6 months, and not introduce ANY other animals into this quarantine until all of the animals graduated to "general population". Introducing a new animal just puts you right back at square 1. Since neither you nor I have mansions, well.... I do what I can. I buy from people who I trust. I nix everything regardless of source. I monitor closely for any problems at all.

I may be taking over my dad's place, and if that does happen, we will have a full basement for "genral population" and enough bedrooms to actually implement a graduated quarantine system exactly as you descibed. In the mean time, we do what we can, and keep all baby snakes in a separate room from animals entering the collection - we know for a fact our babies are born parasite-free. We try to keep them that way.

[rwg]

The way I see it there's three classes of things you want to prevent from transmitting.

1) things that move under their own power. Mites and ticks. If you ensure animals are or become clean when they come in, and that they are isolated from the collection until they are clean, you'll be okay.

2) Airborne stuff. Need separate and separately ventilated rooms to be 100% sure, but in general the more space and the less air flow between cages, the better. Do the best you can here...separate rooms, opposite side of the room...whatever.

3) Stuff transmitted through contact. This is a pretty significant class, and includes a great many nasties. This quarantine is maintained mainly through separate housing (a given) and through strict quarantine protocols. You dont need separate rooms...just make sure you disinfect anything that comes in direct or indirect contact with the quarantined animal.

Even if you cant do a decent job of #2 due to space constraints, you can still do a good job of 1 and 3, and that will buy you a lot. It is definately worth doing.

rg

[Jeff Hathaway]

Good points, rwg.

I'm building 2 separate rooms, one for new arrivals and one for 'treatment' where a problem is identified. Ventilation is separated, to a point. Still not sure whether I can get a sink into both. Wall surfaces will be anti-growth paint such as Permawhite. Floors are concrete. One room is painted and mostly operational since last spring. The other is framed and waiting for me to get back to it when I've got time:-(

Do the best you can with what you've got, but also take into account risk factors associated with each case. I've acquired animals from known sources that I chose not to quarantine at all. Others stay quarantined for months. Depends on the scenario.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Scales Zoo]

Tim, awesome topic.

People don't quarantine animals enough in my opinion. I've seen it with newbies, and my other experienced friends - people don't quarantine enough.

I was fortunate to have a mentor with 25 years experience. He remembered horror stories of friends losing whole collections to things like improper quarantine. He is very "anal" about certain snake keeping practises.

We have started to make choices on who to buy animals from, based on our knowledge of their quarantine and handeling methods.

We are lucky. We have 2 seperate buildings for snakes. The house has 3 levels of quarantine we can choose for new arrivals. The basement of the house, is used in worst case scenarios.

The Scales building has 2 rooms to be used as quarantine. Depending on the circumstances, animals go through a time of quarantine away from the building.

So, with 7 possible different levels of quarantine, we can decide where to put what new animals.

Rescue snakes go into level 1.

1 blackhead went right into the zoo building, one went to quarantine level 3. They both skipped many levels of quarantine. I didn't want to risk them catching anything that something we had for only a year, might have.

Recent female salmon boas poss het albino from Big Dan, skipped many levels of quarantine also. So did the Indigos I got from Mark and Kyle, and the femle Diamond from Don. I trust the source - and they are important enough snakes to keep away from many other fairly new snakes in one room of quarantine or the other.

If we ever have a snake die, we throw away the rubbermaid. I don't like moving snakes around. If they have a cage or a rubbermaid, they stay in it a long time. With expensive snakes, I have started to get new rubbermaids and waterdishes.

Proper disinfecting works - but many people don't seem to properly disinfect. A snakes waterdish, is that snakes waterdish - I don't take them all and wash them and give them to new snakes.

I generally wash my hands between touching any 2 snakes. There are always exceptions to the rule (sorting baby snakes).

If a snake doesn't want it's food, I give it to a monitor, snapping turtle, or crocodillian - never to another snake. If you can't thow them away, freeze your leftovers in a bag, and I'll pay you 1/2 price for them.

Nix and water is great. I use it on all new aquisitions, and sometimes use it weekly on the rest of the snakes, after shows, or after an aquisition that does have mites. It can't be worse for your snakes than mites.

Vapona strips are bad, very evil things that should not be kept around your snakes. I've only had good luck with Black night roach killer. Prevent-a-mite is something I have on hand, but have never used.

So, I urge everyone to do a better job of quarantining and handling your snakes. There is stuff like paramixo, IBD, cryptosporidium that can wipe out your whole collection. There is nothing you can do, except sit back and watch your beloved snakes die one by one.

Pseudomonas and Salmonella can also cause a lot of hefty vet bills, and kill your snakes.

Ryan

[Katt]

I've learned about quaratine the hard way, two times.

In BC, we had a two bedroom apartment and two bathrooms. Quarantine animals in one room with one bathroom, and the regular collection in another room with their own bathroom.

Here we have only one bathroom unfortunately. New snakes are kept in the kitchen or upstairs. Since we have colubrids, any diseases in them show up quite quickly, we keep them on paper towels to watch for mites and to see the colour of their poop.

We use oxyclean between cleanings, and bleach when switching containers, properly aired out naturally. One snake to one dish, although once in awhile I take all dishes, soak them in bleach in hot water, leave them for a day, then rinse and soak for another, then air out for another day. I tend to do this in batches.

I won't say, we have a super awesome set up for quarantine, but there are certain risks involved when keeping animals.

Certainly the best way is to make all your acquisitions in one batch, quarantine them all, then never buy anything else again.