Amazed at what I saw at the pet store today....

Roadracer · 08-11-04, 02:03 PM

So I stopped in at ********** today just to see what they had for chameleons. They had a nice looking Carpet Chameleon, a baby Panther, both housed in very small aquariums which made me kind of upset..... and then I noticed something that made me really angry.

They have a 20 gallon aquarium that has a screen top without any heat lamp housing 4 Veileds in it (2 males and 2 females), all about 6 months old or so. They were all completely black in color, most likely from a combination of stress and being cold. They were all climbing on the screen top and clawing at each other. This made me quite sick to see them being treated this way and the 16 year old punk working there was completely clueless about caring for chameleons.

Anyway, I'm thinking this has got to be animal cruelty if I've ever seen it, although I don't know what I can do about it. Who do you report pet stores like this to? Is there anything I can do about it besides buying them?, which isn't in my budget and they're most likely going to die soon anyway. Any comments you all have would be appreciated.

(edited to remove store name.
~ DragnDrop)

CanadianJackson · 08-11-04, 02:06 PM

I'd definitly at the very least try to tell someone in charge there how to house them properly. Or they're gonna gonna end up with some very unhealthy and possibly dead chams, at that age I'd be worried about them possibly breeding too.

dank7oo · 08-11-04, 02:09 PM

I would take the pet shops name out of this thread to prevent any problems that the site might have with a lawsuit.

Jason

CHRISANDBOIDS14 · 08-11-04, 02:23 PM

You shouldn't buy them anyways, as if you do this it just encourages the store to buy more to sell. Talk to someone there, as animal authorities probably wont do much about it.

C.

Kimo · 08-11-04, 02:39 PM

unfortunately most petstores are able to get back in new stock free of charge when some of their animals die...this is the way most pet stores conduct buisness, so it's unlikely these problems...will ever change

Kimo

panther_dude · 08-11-04, 05:39 PM

Well I think these problemes can change. Its about going to the top and toalking to the government, course you wont get very far with a liberal gov. But it would be worth the try if we got enough people together.
There is no reason why reptiles shouldnt be kept in the same manor as dogs an cats. In the way that most pet stores will not sell a dog or cat that is severly under weight or has broken limbs, even half corroded faces, as ive seen on some reptiles at pet shops.
I dont know it just tottally baffles me how someone owning or working in a pet shop. Who you think would have a love for animals. how can they just sit there and watch them slowly die, it doesnt take a brain surgen to figure out somethings wrong with them. And what is even worse Ive offered to volunteer at places for a week or so, and they wont have anything to do with it.

I dont know we need something like a Private national reptile organisation. Getting the government involved in my minds wont help very much. But I dont know, just something needs to be done in canada. Im not sure how it is in the states.

We at least have to try.

J-Man · 08-12-04, 07:46 AM

Oh, it's bad in the states. I've seen my fair share of that crap.

DragnDrop · 08-12-04, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by panther_dude
Getting the government involved in my minds wont help very much.

The government would just ban reptiles outright. Simple solution, cheap, effective, no problem, done in no time.

The best way is education. Teach/tell/show the store owner/manager that with proper care the more animals will survive, happier customers mean more profit.

The other way is not buying anything from those disaster stores. People would not consider going to a filthy greasy spoon restaurant for fear of getting food poisoning, so before long the place goes belly up. Yet they don't worry about buying from pet stores where half the animals are dead, dying or sick, cages are filthy and the whole place is due to be condemmed for health reasons. It doesn't make sense to me. Don't buy anything at all there, and they're bound to clean up their act or close down.

h0nk · 08-12-04, 08:14 AM

I'm in Australia, and we can't buy reptiles in pet stores (NSW anyway). You must get a reptile keepers' license, and you can only buy reptiles off private breeders, or some commercial breeders operating in other states. We have to keep a logbook which must be returned to the National Parks and Wildlife association (same place you get the license from). They have the right to come inspect reptile keepers enclosures at any time without notice. This system (although alot harder and more time consuming than just buying from a pet store) ensures that the reptiles are treated properly. Also when you buy a reptile you know that it has been cared for and looked after properly. I'm not sure if this system is around anywhere else? Do you even need a license in other counties?

panther_dude · 08-12-04, 08:49 AM

Ya you see the probleme here in canada is we dont have many wild native reptiles. Unlike autralia which is covered with herps. I think this helps people to think of them more as an animal rather then just a disscusting reptile.
I have already sudjested that we liscence breeders and shops but people on here have just said Im wasting my time.
If it can be done in australia, Im darn sure it can be done here. The only probleme is people dont want to give up their time to help our herps.
Many people complain and complain but when it comes down to actually doing something about it, they just leave it to others. Well if everyone leaves it for others to do no one will do it.

It all has to start right here in this forum. We are all regulars and know eachother rather well. Why can we not do this. The probleme is some people come on here and say no it cannot be done weve tried it will never work.
Well im sorry I wont give up I will never just sit on the side lines and let these animals die a slow agganising death. We need to ignore the nagative input people have on this discussion. And get off our butts and do it.

I will be writing a report on pet shops in winnipeg and I please ask you all from different cities in Canada and the US to do the same. After our reports are made we need to get out there and start patitions. Get everyone who is anyone to sign after reading your report. And maybe even add a story or two of theyre own.

I personally will be going to the mayor of winnipeg, and will constantly be confronting him on this issue untill something is done. First im going with my camera and taking pictures of every single reptile in winnipeg and theyre setups. I will then show these pics to the mayor. Hopefully something goes on from there.I am also palnning on writing a leangthy article in the free press and sun. Got to love the freedom of the press, and freedom of speach.

Again people I really need all your help. And if you have added to this thread I will be expecting you to do so. Other wise your just like the people I mentioned before. Love to complain but never want to actually do anything about it.

please please help

thanks guys
mind the spelling lol

wade shaw

dank7oo · 08-12-04, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Amazed at what I saw at the pet store today....

Not so amazing or unusal.

Jason

Chris_Anderson · 08-12-04, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by panther_dude
Ya you see the probleme here in canada is we dont have many wild native reptiles. Unlike autralia which is covered with herps. I think this helps people to think of them more as an animal rather then just a disscusting reptile.
I have already sudjested that we liscence breeders and shops but people on here have just said Im wasting my time.
If it can be done in australia, Im darn sure it can be done here. The only probleme is people dont want to give up their time to help our herps.
Many people complain and complain but when it comes down to actually doing something about it, they just leave it to others. Well if everyone leaves it for others to do no one will do it.

It all has to start right here in this forum. We are all regulars and know eachother rather well. Why can we not do this. The probleme is some people come on here and say no it cannot be done weve tried it will never work.
Well im sorry I wont give up I will never just sit on the side lines and let these animals die a slow agganising death. We need to ignore the nagative input people have on this discussion. And get off our butts and do it.

I will be writing a report on pet shops in winnipeg and I please ask you all from different cities in Canada and the US to do the same. After our reports are made we need to get out there and start patitions. Get everyone who is anyone to sign after reading your report. And maybe even add a story or two of theyre own.

I personally will be going to the mayor of winnipeg, and will constantly be confronting him on this issue untill something is done. First im going with my camera and taking pictures of every single reptile in winnipeg and theyre setups. I will then show these pics to the mayor. Hopefully something goes on from there.I am also palnning on writing a leangthy article in the free press and sun. Got to love the freedom of the press, and freedom of speach.

Again people I really need all your help. And if you have added to this thread I will be expecting you to do so. Other wise your just like the people I mentioned before. Love to complain but never want to actually do anything about it.

please please help

thanks guys
mind the spelling lol

wade shaw

Wade,

You really have to look at the examples of previous efforts that have been made. This effort has been tried in the US and it has had very negative effects for us. The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) has been trying to ban the keeping of reptiles in the US. Right now, I've been helping try to fight legislation in New York that would ban keeping all boids and monitors. We've made some progress by getting them to at least name the species in their ban, not just ban them all outright but we're still being faced with almost certain loss of legality of keeping many of these species. When we go to the government and complain about the people who are not taking care of the animals or practicing safe husbandry, they put into effect legislation that has a negative impact on those of us who are doing what we should be. It seldomly effects those who we feel should be targeted. The best way to fix these problems is through education. Dragndrop's post was right on. I've been trying to promote systems of breeding management that forces breeders to be upfront about their practices and gives buyers the ability to make more educated decissions but it is a slow process that takes time. Its nice to see you being passionate but look at the big picture. PIJAC (www.pijac.org) had be formed in the US to try to combat efforts by organizations like the HSUS to ban this trade outright. Education is our best method at the moment IMO.

Chris

panther_dude · 08-12-04, 05:27 PM

lol ya well you say education. But i dont beleave that someone who has owned a pet shop for 40 years wants to be told how to keep animals by some "younge punk" while they have had success with what they are doing. Oh they might limit some of the species able to be brought in. First of all when has that ever stopped anyone? Secondly maybe its for the better that some of these animals that are growing increasingly rare in the wild are left alone. I highly doubt they can bann all reptiles being kept. The industry is way to huge. Plus your talking about the US govermnemt not the most helpfull people in the world unless it has something to do with them. You need to get at the polotions that keep reptiles or have children or people they know that keep them. Maybe someone who is has more direct contact with these animals can be a little more usefull. I really dont know.

There are too many people that own herps. I find it really hard to beleave that the government will make them all kill theyre animals and stop breeding them. Just way way too many.

Now this is what im talking about for negativity. You say you tried it once and it didnt work. Well ill keep trying untill it does. Maybe we wont go to the government, and need to look else where. I have no idea, all I know is it has to stop.

What does everyone else think. DO you guys think we should just stand aside and let these animals, pretty much get tortured, and killed? Left to sit in there small tank with broken limbs open wounds and extremely bad enclosure conditions.
If you guys just sit there and let it happen, im my miind your no better then the pet shop owners. SOmething has to be done.
I will not tolerate any more negative comments, they are tottally discusting. Your just telling me you really dont care. If you did then it wouldnt matter if they banned the import of reptiles. At least they are left to have theyre naturall lives in the wild, to be left at peace.
If they did ban the improts I think we have enough here to breed and keep the populations going for at least a couple of decades.

So please as ive already said instead of being negative and saying we tried that its useless. Well no its not useless we just need to take a different appraoch to it. There is more then one way to skin a cat. (not to say that skinning cats is right, its tottally wrong)
peace out

wade shaw

P.s Just had anouther thought. WHat if we did get the government to create a bann. Not on the importation of herps but a ban on pet shops to sell herps. Leave it to the breeders who know what they are doing. This could be a rather simple solution and I dont think would cost the government too much to enforce the ban. Not like after the ban is set in, a pet shop can get some iguanas shipped in with his next batch of rabbits. It might take time but maybe this would be a better aproach.

And dont think im going to come up with the solution by myself. I really need your guys' POSSITIVE input on this.

(edited
~ DragnDrop)

dank7oo · 08-12-04, 05:53 PM

There was nothing wrong with Chris' post. He was making conversation.

Jason

panther_dude · 08-12-04, 10:03 PM

wow ok buddy were having grown up talk right now.
please leave the childish comments aside.
There is no need to copy and post my thread. Especially when mine was pretty much right above his. Again its just a waste of space, and I don't know what he is trying to proove by doing it.

It was my whole post for crying out loud. I can see maybe a sentence of two. But the whole thing come on now.

wade

p.s Yes I am sensitive when it comes to going by pet shops and seeing herps slowly die. And to watch the store owners do nothing about it. Even when the solution to the probleme is so simple.
Even when I politely tell a store owner that there is a better way to keep a reptile, which is more beneficial to the reptile and the store owner. They say ya ok thats cool ( well something like that) but have they done anything a week later when I return!?

peace