Miracle Hogs from snake with no oviduct

Stockwell · 07-21-04, 12:01 AM

Hi Gang... Been waiting for these hog eggs to hatch before posting the story.
Last year I had a young hognose get completely eggbound.
After several days she finally managed to push a couple huge eggs out however the eggs came out complete with the oviduct and it was quite a mess.
I pushed the remainding eggs out then cut the oviduct off with scissors. I have had some experience with this in the past and while snakes generally survive they are thought to be useless as breeders and are given away as "pets only" never to be rebred.

As an educational experiment and out of pure curiousity I thought that I had little to lose to keep the snake and actually try to rebreed it again.
I fully expected either she wouldn't breed, wouldn't produce or at worse she would get completely eggbound and die.
Well, Imagine my shock when she laid 6 perfect eggs.
Snakes have 2 oviducts so presumably she laid these out the undamaged side.
However she she still has some ova stuck in her and I suspect they are in the oviduct that was cut off and no longer exists.
She is eating and doing fine however, so the experiment is ongoing.
But either way, below are 6 healthy baby hogs from a prolapsed female that had an oviduct cut off

above the clutch and below mom in the process of laying the clutch

a close up of a hatching hognose...I have switched to the substrate- less system for all my eggs this year complete with NO air holes in the egg trays...So far I am getting 100% hatch rates.
Keeping the eggs up out of the substrate keeps the ones on the bottom from getting water logged and not making it. It's common to lose some eggs if they are laid in a clump and are resting right in the substrate. Having the egg crate barrier means you don't need to worry about adding too much water, because they are elevated above the vermiculite in a 100% RH environment.
Water could be used with no vermiculite , but it sloshes around when you remove the trays and there is always a fear that hatclings could drown, so thats the only real purpose the vermiculite serves as well as holding up the egg crate

Vanan · 07-21-04, 12:19 AM

Wow! Good luck on the remaining ova in her. Please keep us posted. It does make sense for the undamaged oviduct to still be functional but the question is whether the snipped off oviduct can result in tragedy (knock on wood) in a reproductive female.

Jeff_Favelle · 07-21-04, 01:03 AM

That's totally bizarre! Informative to say the least!

Tim_Cranwill · 07-21-04, 01:05 AM

Wow... that's amazing! Keep us posted with her future breedings and what-not...

vanderkm · 07-21-04, 09:03 AM

Definately informative - will be interesting to see if she is capable of resporbing those eggs that remain if they are in the body cavity instead of in an oviduct.

Totally agree of the no substrate method - wonderful for maintaining the eggs except for their tendency to roll around if they happen to be laid singly and I happen to be looking into the tub more often than I should be!

mary v.

Simon · 07-21-04, 10:02 AM

Interesting~

So are you going to try her agian next year just to see or are you going to try this just once?

Congrats on the hatchlings and your experiment~!

beth wallbank · 07-21-04, 07:22 PM

Roy.......that is absolutely amazing. Great information and very interesting. I bought a pair of albino kings last year. Lo and behold, BOTH laid eggs this year (the owners had no idea what they were doing I presume) and both have laid eggs this season. One of the girls have done exactly what your hog has done. As an experienced herper, what is your views on this girl ever producing again? I dont want to part with her either way as she is dog tame and I love her to death, but would be interesting to know whether she would again be viable or not?

Stav.T · 07-21-04, 07:40 PM

Very interesting Roy thats a proof that we are far from knowing everything about reptiles.

Congrats on the litter!
Stav

BOAS_N_PYTHONS · 07-21-04, 11:14 PM

ROY:

Wow amazing and informative, very good piece of information and a good to know note in my research, thanx.

Cya...

Tony

Vanan · 07-22-04, 12:05 AM

Quote:

(the owners had no idea what they were doing I presume)

Hmmmm...I wonder who those people were?

Katt · 07-22-04, 12:09 AM

Quote:

(the owners had no idea what they were doing I presume)

Pretty snide remark Beth. You know perfectly well, that we bought one of the "females" as a male from Mark IsBell, are you trying to imply that neither him nor us know anything b/c we failed to probe a snake to verify its sex?

Stockwell · 07-22-04, 12:55 AM

Beth, I assume you mean your king has also prolapsed oviduct with eggs and you cut the duct off???
If so, you will be in about the same boat as I was.
Providing she still has one good oviduct, she could produce from that one next year.

It's important that I point out at this time that ideally ovaries should be removed with damaged oviducts otherwise females will continue to load ova into a delivery system which is damaged or ends before exiting the body.
Steve Hammack of the Forth Worth zoo recently told me they have a Chondro that prolapsed an oviduct and they removed it, but also had the ovary removed surgically. She continues to ovulate and produce only out of the one remaining half of her reproductive system.

My hognose snake is currently eating but she is in trouble because she has several good size ova that are retained. I suspect they are in the oviduct that was cut off, or possibly they are even in the body cavity.
If they haven't been fertilized which is likely the case, she is probably in no immediate danger of infection and might absorb them eventually, however I suspect they will mumify and become rock hard causing mobility and digestion problems. Obviously any furthur ovulations would just add to the back up.
I will likely end up cutting the retained ova out of her, however there is a good chance I may damage the good duct in the process and my surgical skills certainly aren't adequate to be removing ovaries so there will be no attempt to do that.
It's probably safe to say that in most cases snakes that lose one oviduct, might produce viable eggs again, but there will likely also be further complications, the result of the damaged side.
These complications make it unlikely that the animal will remain a usable breeder over multiple seasons, unless the ovary is removed with the duct and this would require veterinary surgery and would not be economically viable unless you have very valuable animals.

Katt · 07-22-04, 01:05 AM

Holy mackeral Roy!! I first read you were going to do the surgery and I nearly flipped!!

beth wallbank · 07-22-04, 10:19 AM

Thank you Roy. Yes the snake was taken to the vet and the oviduct was removed when she prolapsed. She is now eating well and has gained back a ton of weight. Dont know if I will breed her ever again, but sure is nice to be optimistic now.