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09-10-03, 04:24 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Feb-2003
Location: Toronto
Age: 41
Posts: 650
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Identification.
Look here...
Picture
Grey rat snakes? They have pinkish / brown bellies... any idea?
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09-10-03, 04:27 PM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Mar-2003
Location: Welland, Ontario
Age: 35
Posts: 420
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Imo they look sort of like Baird's rat snakes but I'm not 100% sure.
__________________
Experience is a great advantage. The Problem is that when you get the experience, you're too damned old to do anything about it.
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09-10-03, 04:28 PM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Jan-2003
Location: Montreal, Canada
Age: 44
Posts: 1,177
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almost looks like a mix betwen a cornsnake and a rat snake
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09-10-03, 04:40 PM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Jul-2003
Location: Southern Ontario
Age: 62
Posts: 74
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My guess would be Bairds ratsnake (Elaphe Bairdi).
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09-10-03, 05:45 PM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Apr-2003
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 286
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Hi Dozer,
I hesitantly concur with Alex and Janiman that they are bairdi...
In my experience, baby North American Elaphe can be difficult, if not impossible to identify correctly.
However, "Baird's Rat Snake" youngsters tend to have a higher number of blotches or saddles than obsoleta. Also the dorsal blotches are not connected by two longitudinal lines in "bairdi" , as they are in obsoleta.
One of them does seem to have fairly well- connected blotches towards the neck area, a la "obsoleta", but most of them look to me like classic baby Biard's.
Nice little bunch you've got there.
Cheers!
Simon
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09-10-03, 07:34 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Mar-2002
Location: British Colombia
Age: 42
Posts: 2,525
Country: 
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Something about these does not scream out bairdi to me. Baby bairds have thinner blotches and a sort of "bimaculata" look to them.
http://market.king snake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=139003
http://jazzinjo07.tripod.com/id24.htm
Look at the very thin blotches and high blotch count.
These guys look like how my baby black rats looked like.
Simon, I'm not sure what stripes you are refering to. Adults have stripes once the blotches apear, or are you talking about the H type saddles some babies have?
__________________
~Katt
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09-10-03, 09:30 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Apr-2003
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 286
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Hi Katt; yes, I mean the H-type saddles.
I have always been under the impression that baby Baird's tend to have a fairly high saddle count, often 50 or more, in comparison to obsoleta, which usually have forty or less.
Maybe they are obsoleta, but they seem to have too many saddles to me.
Simon
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09-10-03, 10:08 PM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Mar-2002
Location: British Colombia
Age: 42
Posts: 2,525
Country:
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I've never counted the saddles, but I think counting saddles on ratsnakes is probably like counting saddles on BCI and BCC. Bairdi are fairly distinct as babies. Look at the pics. The saddle shape is the dead give away.
__________________
~Katt
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09-11-03, 03:56 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Feb-2003
Location: Toronto
Age: 41
Posts: 650
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I counted 63 and 59 on two random snakes...
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09-13-03, 05:48 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Apr-2002
Location: Tampa,FL U.S.A.
Posts: 1,945
Country: 
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Look like obsoleta ssp. to me. Not Baird's in my opinion. You'll have to keep 'em now to show us in a year!
:Mark
__________________
Surrender Dorothy!
www.crimsonking.funtigo.com
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09-13-03, 08:03 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: Trenton
Posts: 6,075
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I'm not an expert but they look like neonate black rat snakes to me.
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09-15-03, 04:25 AM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Jul-2003
Posts: 290
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they look similar to my baird's but not quite the same..Those are some real cute babies though
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09-15-03, 09:34 AM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Mar-2002
Location: British Colombia
Age: 42
Posts: 2,525
Country:
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I saw your post on ks, I feel vindicated now!
Are you keeping any to see how they grow up??
__________________
~Katt
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09-15-03, 10:35 AM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Mar-2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Age: 64
Posts: 1,485
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I used to breed Grey Rats, and they looked like that.
It's also possible they are blacks, yellows, greenish or any mix thereof.
__________________
Uncle Roy
-----------------------------------------
Herpetology - more than a hobby
It's a Lifestyle
celebrating 26 years of herp breeding
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09-17-03, 05:28 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Mar-2002
Location: Shawville, Quebec
Age: 52
Posts: 52
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Definitely not Baird's.
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