Well I feel like my baby beardie is in trouble....

TribalGecko · 07-20-03, 04:01 PM

Hi there, I have a baby beardie that is about 6 weeks old. Have been feeding him by hand to control his intake and he hasn't had a problem, crickets the right size with calcium and vitamens. Went camping and put several crickets in there to tide him over for two days. I get back and he didn't eat all the crickets and acted totally normal except when I pick him up. He flattens himself out like a normal response but then has a seizure of some sorts. Not just the lower body but all over, he totally stiffens up, quivers a bit and acts like he is dead. It lasts about 30 seconds and when I put him down, he comes out of it right away and runs off on his merry way like nothing happened. He has done this several times (only when I pick him up) and I have removed all the food from the cage just incase gorging is the problem and gave him a warm soak to move things along (in case it is his bowels) which he tolerated well and had a drink at the time. What is going on with him and is there anything I can do for him or is he goofing with me?

Dragon_Slave · 07-20-03, 07:06 PM

Hi there,
I recently lost one of my beardies, Dimitri, to liver and lung failure. His symptoms sounded exactly like what you described. It only happened when I touched him or picked him up. He would flatten out, twitch his legs and go into full body locks. I'm not saying that this is what's wrong, but he needs to be seen by a qualified reptile vet ASAP! There are a number of reasons to cause his or her ''seizures''.
1. Metabolic Bone Disease(MBD)- I've never seen it in such a young dragon, it's due to a calcium deficiency, make sure you dust her crickets!
2. She could have eaten a cricket too large for her and has become impacted, in which the cricket is pressing on nerves that make her go into these seizures.
3. She could have liver or lung damage.

In any case, you need to take her to a vet as soon as possible, they will be able to tell you more about what to do. Good Luck and keep us posted on your little baby!

eyespy · 07-20-03, 11:47 PM

Low blood sugar is another common cause of seizures in young animals, and so is dehydration. You can try giving diluted Pedialyte by medicine dropper or feeding syringe to boost hydration and blood sugar to see if that helps.

raebug2000 · 07-21-03, 08:14 AM

also overdoing the vitmins and calcium would produce similar effects as not having enough calcium.....

TribalGecko · 07-21-03, 09:31 AM

Well today he seems slightly better. Now if I accidentally startle him, he just quivers slightly and recovers quickly. The vet we know says there is nothing he can do for him. I haven't tried to pick him up but I might try another warm soak. He doesn't look dehydrated or anything, he looks totally normal and healthy until you touch him. I think he pooped last night but maybe he needs to go more.....sigh...

eyespy · 07-21-03, 12:08 PM

Does the tremor appear above the ribcage as well as below? If so, it's never an impaction/constipation issue that causes it. A blockage pressing the spinal cord will never affect anything "upstream" of the digestive tract. So if his arms, face, chest, etc. are affected you can rule out needing to poop as being the problem.

Did the vet do any bloodwork before saying he couldn't do anything? If not, you might want to consider finding someone with more reptile experience. By the time an animal looks dehydrated, for example, it's often too late to treat effectively, it's already affected heart rate and triggered nausea and diarrhea. By then they need intravenous or intracoelemic injections of fluids with added electrolytes. Checking the electrolyte levels in the bloodstream is the only accurate way to assess whether hydration issues are causing these tremors. Bloodwork can also detect liver or kidney problems that are causing toxins to circulate in the bloodstream, or an overdose of vitamin B6 or minerals which are causing the nervous system to function poorly.

I'm very glad to hear the symptoms are lessening. Please do keep us posted on his progress.

TribalGecko · 07-21-03, 12:50 PM

Now I can pick him up and he acts normal. I gave him another warm soak and he drank some more water. I only see a slight tremor in one back foot but who knows if it will come back. He had never looked dehydrated so I never considered that to be a problem. Now I am not sure if I should feed him anything, and if I do, do I dust it with calcium or vitamens? I was only giving him the vitamens a couple times a week but the calcium every day. The tremor and paralysis was definately all over, not just below the ribcage. He never stopped breathing but during the attack he opened his mouth to breath and then panted to regain his breath once the attack subsided.

eyespy · 07-21-03, 01:55 PM

Without knowing possible causes for the tremors it's impossible to say. That's why I wondered if bloodwork were done, that would let us know whether to feed or starve, dust or not dust, etc.

Really only a qualified vet can answer those questions, I'm afraid.

Dragon_Slave · 07-21-03, 02:02 PM

I would definitely suggest finding a new vet. If s/he said they can't do anything without even LOOKING at the dragon, they suck as a vet. I would say to try and find a QUALIFIED reptile vet. I'm glad to hear that the tremors are lessening, please keep us all updated on your babies progress. The best of luck to you and the baby!

Siretsap · 07-21-03, 02:18 PM

A lot of times, when a baby beardie will do seisures like that, it could also be signs of calcium deficiency. We rescued 3 beardies a while back and one would do that as soon as he would try to drink water, he would stiffen up and start shaking his whole body like a leave. We isolated him and made sure he got the right dosage of vitamins and calcium. My gf kept this one and he is an adult now and in perfect health.

TribalGecko · 07-27-03, 08:02 PM

Hi all and good news! The baby beardie is back to his old self. I still am not sure what happened to him but I think he got too much calcium or something like that. I let him hang out in his cage for a couple days without feeding him and whatever was wrong with him has gone away. Now I only dust every other cricket and only lightly. Seems to be working. He has shed again and is getting not only crickets but tiny baby roaches as well, plus the fruit/veggies.

Dragon_Slave · 07-27-03, 08:19 PM

Eeew Roaches!!!! ICK ICK ICK ICK ICK!... ok I'm done....

I'm glad your baby is better now!

TribalGecko · 07-27-03, 08:26 PM

Haha...they are giant roaches that we breed just for the reptiles. They can't live outside of their colony in the big box. The reptiles love them!

TribalGecko · 08-07-03, 02:31 PM

Update on the baby beardie! After I posted that he got better, he got worse again. Went back to full body seizures only when I held him. So I did some research and I figured out that it had to be a calcium deficiency (not the large prey thing) even though he was getting calcium but not the D3. So switched to Rep-cal mixed with Herptivite on his crickets and WOW what a difference. He recovered literally overnight and is perfectly healthy and normal, no even a toe tremor. That stuff is great!!!

eyespy · 08-07-03, 02:41 PM

Great news!!! I hope that the little one continues to show such good results from the new brand of calcium.

If you know who bred the dragon and who is the his mother, it would be a good idea to contact the breeder. Healthy well-nourished females can usually put enough calcium in their eggshells to give hatchlings a 2-4 month window of decent calcium levels, even if the baby isn't given a calcium-rich diet and good quality UVB exposure.

If this baby is truly that young, and not just stunted because of longer term MBD issues, the mother and all the siblings quite likely have calcium problems as well. The mother should not be bred for at least a year and get calcium injections to stave off future problems for herself and any potential offspring. All the siblings should get the best possible calcium supplementation and UVB exposure.

If the baby came from a pet store and its parentage isn't known, at least the pet store can be aware and not get baby beardies from that source in the future. Plus of course, they should re-evaluate their husbandry to make sure they are providing the right lighting and supplements.