managing temps for multiple snake types

[IDvsEGO]

I am building a stack of enclosures and am looking into heat tape to simplify the heating and reduce costs. Here is what I am keeping and the temps that my internet searches have come up with

Mexican Black Kingsnake, Florida Kingsnake, Honduran Milk Snake - 84-88 degrees

Brazilian Rainbow Boa - 85-88 degrees

Red Tail Boa - 85-88 degrees

Ball Python - 88-92 degrees

apart from the ball, these all look like they could run at the same warm side temps. The red tail enclosure will be much bigger so I think she will get her own thermostat but for the 3 colubrids and the rainbow, is there a big problem with running the heat tape in series and all to a single thermostat? Would the ball be ok on those same temp ranges too or should I keep him warmer?

All of the enclosures will have the same heating element, dimensions and building materials. Each will also have its own hygrometer and a thermometer on both the warm and cool side.

[jjhill001]

85-88 degrees is fine for a ball python.

[DJC Reptiles]

85 is a little too low for a hotspot for most of those snakes. The hotspot should be around 90°F for most of them, in terms of warm side it's fine though. Brazilian rainbow boas do not do well in high temps, and the hotspot should never exceed 88°F. The warm side should never exceed 85°F

[IDvsEGO]

Originally Posted by DJC Reptiles

85 is a little too low for a hotspot for most of those snakes. The hotspot should be around 90°F for most of them, in terms of warm side it's fine though. Brazilian rainbow boas do not do well in high temps, and the hotspot should never exceed 88°F. The warm side should never exceed 85°F

All of these are warm side Temps, not hot spot. Hot spots to get those ambient Temps would probably be about 90

Regarding the rainbow... Reptiles magazine says "mid to high 80s". Lol reptiles says even higher at 85-90. But then rainbows r us says 85 and North Hampton reptiles says 83. This snake has been the hardest to find consistent info on. I will probably opt to keep it on its own so I can change it based on the snakes behavior.

So I guess I will do the colubrids and ball on one and give the red tail and rainbow their own. 3 is easier to maintain than 6 so that's still good.

[DJC Reptiles]

Originally Posted by IDvsEGO

All of these are warm side Temps, not hot spot. Hot spots to get those ambient Temps would probably be about 90

Regarding the rainbow... Reptiles magazine says "mid to high 80s". Lol reptiles says even higher at 85-90. But then rainbows r us says 85 and North Hampton reptiles says 83. This snake has been the hardest to find consistent info on. I will probably opt to keep it on its own so I can change it based on the snakes behavior.

So I guess I will do the colubrids and ball on one and give the red tail and rainbow their own. 3 is easier to maintain than 6 so that's still good.

I say 88°F because it is pretty hard to get exactly 90°F, and for a BRB it is much better to be cooler then warmer. As long as you don't go above 90°F at all you will be good. Keep in mind you can also use extra substate to make the temps cooler or warmer in some of the enclosures. Your warm temps are good then. Can't wait to see what you come up with .

[jjhill001]

Hot spots are unnecessary in general when it comes to just about any snake species you can think of. In general I attribute most shedding problems people get with having too high of temperatures.

There is even an argument against gradients as well however thats not nearly as accepted.

When I get home from work I'll pull up the link to the probably 20-25 page thread with the discussion (if I can find it) that includes all sources and arguments brought up by many perspectives. Or if anyone who participated in it finds it first that'd be awesome too.

I don't want to rehash that entire thread (arguably one of the most civil internet discussions I've ever been in particularly in regards to how many reptile debates devolve). After the link is posted and the newer members can read through it if anyone has any questions about anything I said I will be happy to answer.

That said, gradient keeping is absolutely the easiest method of keeping for the average keeper that doesn't have access to a dedicated snake room which I don't think I brought up as much in that thread so I wanted to say it here. However the hotspot temps I've seen are just way too hot.

[IDvsEGO]

Originally Posted by DJC Reptiles

I say 88°F because it is pretty hard to get exactly 90°F, and for a BRB it is much better to be cooler then warmer. As long as you don't go above 90°F at all you will be good. Keep in mind you can also use extra substate to make the temps cooler or warmer in some of the enclosures. Your warm temps are good then. Can't wait to see what you come up with .

I think I am going to put the thermostat temp probe directly on the surface above the heat tape so that I can be sure it never gets too hot for them to touch and then keep an eye on the enclosures ambient thermometers to gauge warm/cool side temps. I can use substrate and other tricks to tweak it per enclosure.

Originally Posted by jjhill001

Hot spots are unnecessary in general when it comes to just about any snake species you can think of. In general I attribute most shedding problems people get with having too high of temperatures.

There is even an argument against gradients as well however thats not nearly as accepted.

When I get home from work I'll pull up the link to the probably 20-25 page thread with the discussion (if I can find it) that includes all sources and arguments brought up by many perspectives. Or if anyone who participated in it finds it first that'd be awesome too.

I don't want to rehash that entire thread (arguably one of the most civil internet discussions I've ever been in particularly in regards to how many reptile debates devolve). After the link is posted and the newer members can read through it if anyone has any questions about anything I said I will be happy to answer.

That said, gradient keeping is absolutely the easiest method of keeping for the average keeper that doesn't have access to a dedicated snake room which I don't think I brought up as much in that thread so I wanted to say it here. However the hotspot temps I've seen are just way too hot.

Thanks, that sounds like my kind of thread. Looking forward to the link.

I am not creating any specific intentional hot spots. I am just using that temp as a "rule of thumb" to for the heated surface. The current plan is to use heat tape so I dont want the heated surface to exceed those temps. I am going with a good bit of coverage so that they can heat the enclosure without having to run full power all the time. That should keep surface temps from gettign blazing hot. I dont think it will be an issue. I am not using lighting so I am not doing a basking spot. I like the idea of gradient because it lets the snake escape an area that is too hot due to device failure or human error. My room isnt dedicated but it is in a basement and the temps are very consistent and wont ever get so cold that it would be life threatening in the amount of time between my checkins. I work from home so I actually peak at them a few times a day. But even if they had to go a day or two, it wouldn't be life threatening.

[jjhill001]

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gener...t-hotspot.html

Went ahead and found it early, happy late Christmas.

Keep in mind there are many opinions and to me the overall conclusion to the entire thread was that at least in regards to snake husbandry, there is more than one way to skin a rat. As long as the snake is healthy by all the measures we have access to its hard to say someone is doing anything incorrectly.

[IDvsEGO]

Originally Posted by jjhill001

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gener...t-hotspot.html

Went ahead and found it early, happy late Christmas.

Keep in mind there are many opinions and to me the overall conclusion to the entire thread was that at least in regards to snake husbandry, there is more than one way to skin a rat. As long as the snake is healthy by all the measures we have access to its hard to say someone is doing anything incorrectly.

yeah, I am definitely figuring that out. I want to start conservatively and then dial it in. The rainbow is my only real worry. Lots of reports of different temps and some humidity ranges that go pretty high. I dont want to create a sauna and make the little thing sick. I have been keeping the ball, milk, and red tail for a while and they shed nicely. Same with our leopard gecko. Just trying to dial in this rainbow and make sure I stay good as I increase the scale of their enclosures.