A new question maybe?

IDvsEGO · 12-11-17, 12:30 PM

Instead of "how big does the enclosure need to be for my ______ I am going the other way. I am building a custom enclosure wall and have some holes to fill. Currently we have a red tail, a ball morph, 2 king snakes, a milk snake, and a leopard gecko. I have 3 additional spaces to fill for variety. In theory I could section them off differently and there is maybe 6 inches of buffer to add I suppose.

For variety I want some with more vertical room with a climber. I have room for two enclosures that will have a floor of either 2'x2' or 3'x2' and a height of 3'. So what would you put in there? We like carpet and tree pythons but I am just not sure that is enough space for full grown adults of either species. I could combine it into one large 4'x2'x3' enclosure for a Coastal Carpet I suppose, but was hoping for the extra pet.

I have another smaller space that will be 2'x2'x2' as well. Was thinking maybe a toad or spider in there. Or the gecko and use that tank for something else....like a spider or a toad lol. Everybody liked the smooth sided toad we saw at a local shop but I have done zero research on them at this point.

DJC Reptiles · 12-11-17, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDvsEGO

For variety I want some with more vertical room with a climber. I have room for two enclosures that will have a floor of either 2'x2' or 3'x2' and a height of 3'. So what would you put in there? We like carpet and tree pythons but I am just not sure that is enough space for full grown adults of either species. I could combine it into one large 4'x2'x3' enclosure for a Coastal Carpet I suppose, but was hoping for the extra pet.

I would put different geckos in that size enclosure such as giant Madagascar day geckos (Phelsuma grandis), or maybe crested geckos (Correlophus ciliatus), or tokay geckos (Gekko gecko). I wouldn't recommend a 4'x2'x3' enclosure for a coastal as they can get pretty large, and would need either a extra foot of length or height. Jungle carpets however should do fine in that size enclosure, depending on the size of the adult.

IDvsEGO · 12-11-17, 05:11 PM

We saw a couple of tokays at the local reptile shop and they are interesting for sure. My wife was a little apprehensive about their reputation but I kind of like the "don't mess with me" attitude.

So a jungle carpet would be good in the 4x2x3 probably?

I have 4x2x2 slotted for our Red tail. Should I bump that to 5 or 6x2x2? If I bump it down to 18" on the height I could reconfigure some stuff to give her more room..

DJC Reptiles · 12-11-17, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDvsEGO

We saw a couple of tokays at the local reptile shop and they are interesting for sure. My wife was a little apprehensive about their reputation but I kind of like the "don't mess with me" attitude.

So a jungle carpet would be good in the 4x2x3 probably?

I have 4x2x2 slotted for our Red tail. Should I bump that to 5 or 6x2x2? If I bump it down to 18" on the height I could reconfigure some stuff to give her more room..

For a Colombian red tail boa, that bigger size is a must for an adult. 18" in height should be fine for this terrestrial species, but you can provide a shelf to give her a place to go if she wants to go upwards. Keep in mind these snakes can exceed 10 feet in length! Females are notorious for growing bigger, but I have personally seen 9ft males, and there are certainly bigger ones out there. 4x2x3 should be fine for a jungle carpet python, but it would be safer getting a male, because they tend to grow a little smaller. Expect a JCP to get 5-7 feet long. Tokay geckos have a notorious reputation for being defensive, and hard to tame. Kevin McCurley of NERD is evidence they can be tamed and kept successfully, here is an article he wrote here,

Tokay Gecko Care

Hope this helps!

IDvsEGO · 12-11-17, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJC Reptiles

For a Colombian red tail boa, that bigger size is a must for an adult. 18" in height should be fine for this terrestrial species, but you can provide a shelf to give her a place to go if she wants to go upwards. Keep in mind these snakes can exceed 10 feet in length! Females are notorious for growing bigger, but I have personally seen 9ft males, and there are certainly bigger ones out there. 4x2x3 should be fine for a jungle carpet python, but it would be safer getting a male, because they tend to grow a little smaller. Expect a JCP to get 5-7 feet long. Tokay geckos have a notorious reputation for being defensive, and hard to tame. Kevin McCurley of NERD is evidence they can be tamed and kept successfully, here is an article he wrote here,

Hope this helps!

Thank. The red tail likes to get on top of her hide so I was going to do a shelf for sure. I was going back and forth on her size so thanks for confirming my suspicion. I need to check my measurements to make sure what that does to my arboreal enclosure.

How about a tree python? Are they about the same as the jungle? And yeah, I am going male if we do a jungle. One 10footer in the house is plenty.

DJC Reptiles · 12-11-17, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDvsEGO

Thank. The red tail likes to get on top of her hide so I was going to do a shelf for sure. I was going back and forth on her size so thanks for confirming my suspicion. I need to check my measurements to make sure what that does to my arboreal enclosure.

How about a tree python? Are they about the same as the jungle? And yeah, I am going male if we do a jungle. One 10footer in the house is plenty.

While jungle's are semi-arboreal, green tree pythons are almost completely aboreal snakes and need at least another foot of height, four feet in total. They do best in a cage with three different perches, one on the bottom, one in the middle, and one on top. This is one of the species I will recomend a basking light for because they will almost never come down from their perch. In terms of size they can grow 4 to 6 feet but will never look it as they are pretty skinny snakes. Green tree pythons are also a lot more defensive then carpets so I wouldn't recommend them if you want to handle your pet, keep in mind there are plenty of species in the hobby that tolerate handling well, however, the taming process will just take time. According to others, any carpet python will be comfortable in that cage, but, I wouldn't feel comfortable with a big snake like that in a small cage. Jungles will most definitely fit, and they look amazing, although they can be hard to find during this season, so it might take awhile until you do. If you have any questions about how to pick a jungle, you can research more here,

Jungle Carpet Python Care Tips

Don't hesitate to ask anymore questions

, I am on this site multiple times a day, and will always do my best to help anyone.

Bandit · 12-12-17, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJC Reptiles

18" in height should be fine for this terrestrial species

I wouldn't exactly call Colombian Boas terrestrial. While they typically won't climb as much when they get older, and would certainly be fine without any climbing space, these guys can and will climb if given the opportunity. It's not a must, and you won't be harming your snake by not giving it much vertical space, but if you're looking to make a tall enclosure, the boa will use it (assuming there are sturdy branches, a basking shelf of some sort, and some heat higher up).

DJC Reptiles · 12-12-17, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit

I wouldn't exactly call Colombian Boas terrestrial. While they typically won't climb as much when they get older, and would certainly be fine without any climbing space, these guys can and will climb if given the opportunity. It's not a must, and you won't be harming your snake by not giving it much vertical space, but if you're looking to make a tall enclosure, the boa will use it (assuming there are sturdy branches, a basking shelf of some sort, and some heat higher up).

Yes, which is why I recommend a shelf. Otherwise length is more important then height. And they may or may not use the vertical space, babies are much more arboreal, but for adults, just a shelf and 18" of height will keep it plenty happy. And they are certainly terrestrial in captivity because they don't require the height, that just means they will spend most of their time on the ground, most of all snakes, if given the opportunity will venture upwards if given the chance. I would only classify snakes as arboreal and semi-arboreal if they actually needed the height.

MDT · 12-12-17, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDvsEGO

So a jungle carpet would be good in the 4x2x3 probably?

a good rule of thumb for size- pure jungles are going to attain a size of 6+"ish" ft., coastal carpets are bigger animals- around 6-9ish. Irian Jaya carpets typically in the 4-5 ft zone.

all-in-all, they are big snakes, just not huge. i wouldn't house an adult coastal in that size of a cage, but an IJ would do fine as would a JCP.

remember, when you say "jungle", it's prob a mixture. unless you have purchased from a top notch breeder with detailed pedigrees, you're not going to get a "pure" JCP.

IDvsEGO · 12-12-17, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit

I wasn't saying your were wrong, but in the wild they do tend to spend some time up in trees, and even the ones I've kept in captivity have spent more time up high than just to venture up every now and then. Again, they don't need the vertical space. I was just letting the OP know that they will spend a good bit of time up high if given the opportunity. It was more if he wanted the height for aesthetic purposes, and for it to not be wasted space.

thanks. I think we are in line then. I know she likes to get on her hide now so I was planning on at least one shelf on the cool side and making the hide on the warm side one that she can get on if she wants. She hasnt touched the limb that is in there but honestly, I think it is too straight up and down for her to lounge on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

a good rule of thumb for size- pure jungles are going to attain a size of 6+"ish" ft., coastal carpets are bigger animals- around 6-9ish. Irian Jaya carpets typically in the 4-5 ft zone.

all-in-all, they are big snakes, just not huge. i wouldn't house an adult coastal in that size of a cage, but an IJ would do fine as would a JCP.

remember, when you say "jungle", it's prob a mixture. unless you have purchased from a top notch breeder with detailed pedigrees, you're not going to get a "pure" JCP.

The IJ has some of the best coloring for me, I hadn't seen that they were that much smaller. That could be my guy. At the very least, I think I can rule out the Coastal for sure. I think what I am going to do is make one large arboreal enclosure with a removal partition. It isn't that tough to do and would resolve my dilemma.

And I have read repeatedly that it is very difficult to give an adult snake too much space. You guys agree with that logic? I can handle wasting space for the right snake but I dont want to create a stressful environment if there are some that prefer the cozy habitat.

**EL Ziggy** · 12-11-17, 08:37 PM

I'm a big fan of carpets too. They're one of my favorite snake species. I think almost any carpet would do great in a 4x2x3. They really don't take up much enclosure space. Only one of my carpets likes to actively roam his enclosure. The others are usually just perched and waiting for food. Green tree pythons are gorgeous critters too but I don't keep them (yet). Best wishes with whatever you choose.

IDvsEGO · 12-12-17, 05:40 AM

Thanks guys. I don't have a specific timeline on this purchase because I am still planning the construction. I am betting, realistically, 6 months or more. I can easily go higher on this enclosure. I will rework the dimensions for the rtb and see how it impacts everything.

Bandit · 12-12-17, 11:36 AM

I wasn't saying your were wrong, but in the wild they do tend to spend some time up in trees, and even the ones I've kept in captivity have spent more time up high than just to venture up every now and then. Again, they don't need the vertical space. I was just letting the OP know that they will spend a good bit of time up high if given the opportunity. It was more if he wanted the height for aesthetic purposes, and for it to not be wasted space.

IDvsEGO · 12-12-17, 02:36 PM

soemthign else that I have just been thinkign about...heating. I was going to do a heating pad under either a ceramic tile or plexi and put it on a thermostat. I keep going back and forth on overheard for the terrestrial enclosures.

My arboreal will need overhead heat, correct? Is floor heating necessary for them as well? I can always install it and only use it if the species dictates. Should I do dual thermostats if I do overhead light and floor heat in a 3' high enclosure? At first glance the "hot side/cool side" config seems a little trickier.

DJC Reptiles · 12-12-17, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDvsEGO

soemthign else that I have just been thinkign about...heating. I was going to do a heating pad under either a ceramic tile or plexi and put it on a thermostat. I keep going back and forth on overheard for the terrestrial enclosures.

My arboreal will need overhead heat, correct? Is floor heating necessary for them as well? I can always install it and only use it if the species dictates. Should I do dual thermostats if I do overhead light and floor heat in a 3' high enclosure? At first glance the "hot side/cool side" config seems a little trickier.

If it is going to be for an arboreal species like a GTP, a basking light should be provided. By using three different perches, one can simulate a hot spot on top, a warm spot in the middle, and a cool spot on the bottom. These temps should range from 92-78°F. If it is for a arboreal species of snake, don't use a undertank heater as this will not work out. Arboreal snakes will almost never come down from their perch and will be useless. For your Colombian red tail, an undertank heater for a hotspot should be all you need, assuming the room you will be keeping them in is heated.