Want Some Feedback

Tiny Boidae · 08-14-15, 02:15 PM

Alright, so I'm switching gears from a basilisk to a Taiwanese Beauty after much consideration, and the fact is that I already have two amazing girls (my water dragons for those of you who don't know. I hope to get some pictures of my animals when I get a camera, because I don't have one as of right now) and they're a handful. They're amazing, but I find that the lizards benefit from a lot of interaction more so than my snakes, and for a 16 year old taking college courses and working part-time, that isn't reasonable for me. Going to get a basilisk in the future, but I'm bad with time management and those are animals that need a lot of social time to get used to you, so either he'd be neglected socially or my grades would.

Now that I gave you guys the spill on my situation, here's my thinking process on this guy. I don't mind making the huge enclosure that these guys need, but I've read numerous times that so long as the length + the width adds up to the length of the snake you're golden, and I have a problem with that. I understand that logic for a snake like a ball python or a sand boa that would be hiding for the majority of its time, but these snakes (as well as many others) are probably always moving in the wild, always trying to get from point a to point b.

Using this article:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...zPKXFECuOsynCQ

It had been concluded that rat snakes can move up to 80 meters at a time, and they are moving almost all day. That got me to thinking that maybe corn snakes, rats, and garters (who tend to be more active than most) should be granted a slightly larger enclosure than our "sit-and-wait" guys? Just a thought, kinda thought that putting them in an enclosure where they can't stretch out completely would be like sitting in a car all day where your muscles get stiff and your feet swell up. Any thoughts on this?

reptiledude987 · 08-14-15, 04:20 PM

I see where youre coming from on this. In some cases too much space (without enough hiding spots) can be stressful for some species. However with beauty snakes this isnt really the case. If you can give 2' or 3' square for each foot of length by all means go for it. Just ensure that it has some hides and branches and can feel secure in multiple locations throughout and youre good to go.

Tiny Boidae · 08-14-15, 04:50 PM

Reptiledude987-

I don't mind giving them extra hides, that isn't an issue in any aspect. I plan on giving it an 8'x4'x5' enclosure to allow even the largest of females to stretch out fully when they desire and to give them plenty of room to roam. My concern that is the common "minimum" (length of snake=length of cage + width of cage) might not provide them with the ability to explore and exercise, or worse yet lead to obesity and "depression" of sorts. I've read that these animals are unusually inquisitive and active, which is where the majority of my concern lies as it's difficult to provide stimulation in a 4'x2' enclosure.

reptiledude987 · 08-14-15, 05:10 PM

What I do in my enclosures to let them exrecise is provide climbing branches weather arboreal or not. All my snakes are lean with nice muscle tone because they all climb a bit even my hoggie.

Tiny Boidae · 08-14-15, 05:23 PM

Oh I'm definitely going to provide climbing opportunities, some natural and some not, but I've never had such an active snake before. All of my snakes are those that kinda just sit there all day, and all night too actually... I'm going to have my hands full with this one, I'm predicting it now :')

Roman · 08-16-15, 02:12 PM

I suppose there is nothing like a “too large” enclosure for a Taiwan beauty snake (Orthriophis taeniurus friesei). As you already said, they will use any inch you can provide and they will be much more active as in a smaller enclosure. So if you can provide your snake with 8 x 4 x 5 ft then go for it. Provide enough branches, some plants and other hides, a local hotspot and another area with room temperature as a temperature gradient and you won’t need your TV any longer…

Just some remarks from my own experience with such a large enclosure. My enclosure for my tiger ratsnakes (Spilotes pullatus) is 250 x 90 x 190 cm (>8 ft x 3 ft x >6 ft), so it is about the same size as you are planning. In my experience 3 ft is deep enough, especially with a large snake which might be just curios, but may be prone to bite first, ask questions later (at least my male beauty snake was sometimes in a “bity mood”). To get some leftovers from the back of such a large enclosure, bending around (or between) some branches you may have to do some moves with your upper body which would make your Yoga teacher proud of you – and having a snake watching you from above/behind your head is just icing for the cake.

So I would suggest to keep it with just 3 ft, it should be more than enough for your snake.

Providing enough light and heating for your enclosure is another issue. Forget UTH, especially if you go with a bioactive setup and deep substrate – the heat won’t reach your snake. I use 3 Metal-hybrid lights with 70 W each for my large enclosure for lighting and heating, with another 70 W RHP as reserve (which I haven’t used for the last 3 years). As your snake doesn’t need as much heat I would use one 50 – 70 W spot light as a local heat spot, maybe above one of your branches and some fluorescent tube for the basic lighting.

To give you some ideas how you could set it up

--> http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gener...-pullatus.html

--> http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gener...us-update.html

Roman

Tiny Boidae · 08-16-15, 02:58 PM

Thank you so much on the feedback. I read somewhere that these guys spend most of their time in the trees, thus why I was planning on such a tall enclosure. If anything, I can throw another $200 in the pot and make one heck of a stand, make the snake feel like it's high up at least.

I was planning on using a small (I mean those used for critter keepers small) heat mat to use right under the warm hide seeing as, through trial and error with my water dragons, a box under a heat lamp is nothing more than a sweltering oven.

Also was planning on using these cheap little guys as far as lighting goes (5M RGB 5050 SMD 300 LED Flexible Lamp Light Strip 24 Key Remote 12V Power Supply | eBay). They simply adhere to the top of the enclosure and you get a LOT of them.

Heating was going to be a two floodlights mounted in two different corners, facing each other to give a nice, warm area for the little guy... Err big guy. Nothing too complex there (for once).

I actually did plan on having bioactive substrate, as I figured I'd be shoveling top soil for days if I ever had to do a complete substrate change (or unclogging my vacuum cleaner). My plan was springtails to break down the feces, isopods to take care of dead plant leaves, bugs, or any other unforeseeable accident that the springtails won't touch, and then some nightcrawlers to airate the soil for good bacteria and the plants, as well as serving as a delivery system as far as nutrients go. My biggest concern is finding drowned bugs in the water bowl (which is going to be a big grout-tub on the cool side of the enclosure with a drain). I might put some small stones to sort of "barricade" the water from the bugs, but I'm not too sure yet on that. I'm still trying to draw out the frame.

You have some gorgeous snakes in a really nice enclosure, and I might be a little late to say this but I truly am sorry that you lost that female. Gorgeous baby doll she was.

I only plan on keeping one in there, I really don't think I can handle any more although I'm hoping to get a female in case I have a change of heart. I'm looking into the Chinese variety, as I figured out that the local shop has them (I was in there for mice and crickets, left with a better idea for what I wanted). I talked to the manager, and while he said that he probably won't have that individual by the time I'm ready for it, he can always order me one and have it shipped to the store.

Roman · 08-16-15, 03:19 PM

I think we have a little misunderstanding – I meant 8 x 3 x 5 ft instead of your suggested 8 x 4 x 5 ft.

Roman

Tiny Boidae · 08-16-15, 03:41 PM

Hehe, sorry about that. I was trying to use up as much of the 8x4 sheets of plywood when it came to those measurements, but 4 feet in depth might stick out into the room too much now that I think about it. I'll reconsider the measurements, might even make some birdhouse-type hides out of any leftover wood.