New ball python... but not new to snakes. Question about ethics

Penguin · 05-11-12, 07:57 PM

Hey there. I'm new to the forum... I grew up in a family where snakes were an accepted pet, and I personally had a juvenile Coastal Carpet Python for about a year. Unfortunately he escaped a temporary outdoor enclosure several years ago. I've missed him, and decided to get another python recently. This time I decided on a Ball Python, mainly because they don't get as large as other constricting species. I bought a juvenile Ball Python from a local pet shop about two weeks ago, he's in a 10 gallon aquarium (will be upgrading to 20 gallons before too long). He went into a shed soon after I bought him, and now that that's over (it was a good shed, yay), I finally got him to take his first meal tonight. I fed him in a live mouse in-cage because I wanted to get him feeding as soon as I could, but I plan on transitioning him to frozen mice in a separate container now.

I am by no means an expert, but I am moderately experienced with snakes and want to do everything I can to ensure the health of my snake. Anyway, I have a few questions.

1. I am considering taking him to an exotic vet soon, just to get a checkup and since parasites are not an uncommon problem I was thinking of getting him de-wormed just to be on the safe side. I was thinking of skipping the testing and just doing a de-worming, the vet assured me there are no risks or danger in de-worming and that it's not a bad idea, and that the testing isn't really necessary and just an extra fee. Do you think this would be a good idea? Are internal parasites a prevalent enough problem to justify a de-worming? Is there any risk or damage, to your knowledge, in de-worming a snake that may or may not require it?

2. I have heard people railing on others for this idea... but like I said earlier, I do want to do whatever is healthy for my snake. I was wondering, though, if I could feed him on the less frequent end of the spectrum to keep him from growing quite so big. I mean a mild difference, like I read that for juveniles the suggested feeding is every 7-10 days. If I opted to feed every 10 days for the reason of keeping the snake on the smaller side, is this an awful idea? Am I wrong for this? Would it even it affect the growth of the snake at all?

Edmond Y · 05-12-12, 02:23 PM

A routine deworming is nothing harm but good for both your snake and yourself. Understand all pet snake is over fed in captive, in the wild, they might have to hunt for days but get no food. Under our care, they don't even need to move around and can get food, what mainly build up is body fat. I fed once ever ten days to two weeks with adult asf, my balls growth nice round body shape but not fat and remain active a alert.

Here is a pic of my het albino female

Edmond

marvelfreak · 05-12-12, 04:17 PM

Hello and welcome to our zoo. May i ask why you want to try keeping it on the smaller side? To answer your question feeding every 10 days is fine.

**Aaron_S** · 05-12-12, 10:57 PM

It IS an awful idea to feed any animal in hopes of it obtaining a smaller size. Sell the animal now. Go buy a pet rock.

Little Wise Owl · 05-12-12, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

It IS an awful idea to feed any animal in hopes of it obtaining a smaller size. Sell the animal now. Go buy a pet rock.

What an incredibly helpful post.

Feeding every 10 days is fine. I sometimes feed mine every 14 days. I've had a male go for 7 months without food and didn't lose an ounce...

Ivalynfyre · 05-12-12, 11:59 PM

I hope you don't mind my asking.. but why do you want an already small snake to be smaller than usual? If it's caging - I don't think a 41qt tub, which is fine for most ball pythons, unless you have a monster female, is too expensive.
I would feed every seven days for a baby. My opinion is that they're growing and need it.
And another 'IMO', it is somewhat wrong to feed the snake less just because you want an already small snake to be smaller. This goes for large snakes as well - if you don't want a full-sized burmese python(first giant that comes to mind), don't get it and starve it to keep it small.

jaleely · 05-13-12, 12:07 AM

Keeping any animal underfed because you don't want it to grow big is a very well...not smart idea. There is NO nice way to put it. It doesn't even work, it just makes the animal have a lack of nutrition that slows it's growth. Genetics determine size on anything living, not food intake. If you feed it more, faster, it will grow faster, but that will not determine the END growth size. Not to mention snakes never stop growing, though it slows it late life to become barely noticeable. This is fact.

Sounds to me like you just wanted a pet. You don't want to have it in a bigger tank, but you wanted something. End gallon size for a ball python is at least 40 gallons. Doesn't really sound like you may be willing to have that, and may keep the snake inside a too small enclosure because of that.
I would stick to proper nutrition for the animal. Don't underfeed, thinking you're controling size. You're just controling growth rate, which is different, and UNhealthy for the animal.

I would politely suggest rehoming the animal with someone prepared to give it proper nutrition and cage size, or rethink your plans a bit.
Just sugar coating what someone else already said, really, but it sounds like, from the initial post, you are not really needing a ball python.

If you decide to keep the snake, i agree that you should switch to frozen-thawed food as soon as you can. There's no reason to risk the snake getting hurt by live food. If it's a baby you should be able to tempt it by wiggling it. Good luck.

**Aaron_S** · 05-13-12, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Wise Owl

What an incredibly helpful post.

Feeding every 10 days is fine. I sometimes feed mine every 14 days. I've had a male go for 7 months without food and didn't lose an ounce...

I gave the best help. Made a suggestion of a pet that is more in line with what he wants. Doesn't ever grow!

Secondly, why waste my time offering actual advice if the person doesn't even have the animals best interest in mind already?

Penguin · 05-13-12, 01:23 AM

I don't like the assumptions that were made. And I especially don't know why it was stated that I don't have my pets' best interest in mind. I am happy when my pets are at their best, and it bothers me if an animal is uncomfortable. And I would happily accommodate snake size with a 40 gallon tank. It just seems to me that from my reading the size of healthy adult ball pythons varies a bit, and feeding is suggested within a range. I guess I was wondering whether the two correlate. I don't want a malnourished or unhealthy snake. And I would never deliberately underfeed. I was just wondering if feeding on the lower end of suggested feedings would produce a healthy snake that is on the lower end of average healthy snake length, if that's not the case and the only way to end up with a smaller snake is to actually underfeed, then that answers my question and that is out of the question.

I love my snake and will happily do anything I can to accommodate him, now and in the future no matter what size he is. I just prefer the lower end of average healthy adult ball python but I'll be happy with him whatever size he reaches. As for the comment about taking him back to the pet store... odds are, I care more and bother to learn more about him than some other random pet store customer might. There are impulse buyers, and there are a lot of unwanted snakes on craigslist.

MrBD1980 · 05-13-12, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin

I was wondering, though, if I could feed him on the less frequent end of the spectrum to keep him from growing quite so big. I mean a mild difference, like I read that for juveniles the suggested feeding is every 7-10 days. If I opted to feed every 10 days for the reason of keeping the snake on the smaller side, is this an awful idea? Am I wrong for this? Would it even it affect the growth of the snake at all?

Hi,

My wife just had a beautiful new baby (we used to child mind so babies are not new to us). I really want her to be healthy....but...she is so cute and easy to handle!!

I know it might sound bad but can I just feed her once every few days so she stays small and easy? Am I wrong for doing this?

.....ridiculous!!!!!!!!

Brian

SnakeyJay · 05-13-12, 02:51 AM

Sadly there's many people with this feed em less, grow em less attitude... If you want a small snake, buy a garter.

Fredricks · 05-13-12, 06:32 AM

You have no reason to keep your BP smaller. It will not harm you, your child, your wife or anyone else in your family. It will be a great teacher for your child that different is good and that intolerance is hurtful. No kid wants to hear how horrible their pet is, especially when it is as good natured as a ball python

You aren't a bad person thinking it, you are just being unrealistic. Would you under feed your lab to keep him smaller or would you let him grow to his maximum size and then slow down his feeding to a regular pattern? You know the answer. Good luck my friend

Little Wise Owl · 05-13-12, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I gave the best help. Made a suggestion of a pet that is more in line with what he wants. Doesn't ever grow!

Secondly, why waste my time offering actual advice if the person doesn't even have the animals best interest in mind already?

Haha, wow... I agree that wanting to keep a snake on the smaller side isn't right but to condemn that person from own a pet because of the question...? lololol Nice. A high percentage of your average Ball Python owner wouldn't even consider taking the snake to a vet because they're worried about parasites but this person would. THEY MUST NOT HAVE THE ANIMAL'S BEST INTEREST IN MIND.

If you didn't want to waste your time offering advice, why even post in the first place? Others gave much better constructive criticism.

exwizard · 05-13-12, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Wise Owl

Haha, wow... I agree that wanting to keep a snake on the smaller side isn't right but to condemn that person from own a pet because of the question...? lololol Nice. A high percentage of your average Ball Python owner wouldn't even consider taking the snake to a vet because they're worried about parasites but this person would. THEY MUST NOT HAVE THE ANIMAL'S BEST INTEREST IN MIND.

If you didn't want to waste your time offering advice, why even post in the first place? Others gave much better constructive criticism.

I like this reply as it is very appropriate.

**Aaron_S** · 05-13-12, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Wise Owl

Haha, wow... I agree that wanting to keep a snake on the smaller side isn't right but to condemn that person from own a pet because of the question...? lololol Nice. A high percentage of your average Ball Python owner wouldn't even consider taking the snake to a vet because they're worried about parasites but this person would. THEY MUST NOT HAVE THE ANIMAL'S BEST INTEREST IN MIND.

If you didn't want to waste your time offering advice, why even post in the first place? Others gave much better constructive criticism.

It was a question he had in mind to put the animals needs and growth only second to his preferred size of pet. I don't get what you're saying. You apparently want people to think of their selfish wants instead of the animals first. Just because someone says they're going to the vets and then in the next paragraph say they want to keep their snake smaller, kind of puts doubt on the whole thing. Just because you put perfume on **** doesn't make it anything but ****.

Secondly, Penguin, there was no assumption made. You plainly said what we all understood. MrBD1980 has it quoted by you in your words "If I opted to feed every 10 days for the reason of keeping the snake on the smaller side, is this an awful idea? Am I wrong for this? Would it even it affect the growth of the snake at all?" That's not a curious question, that's a legitimate question with the intent to do it.