Not fair really but...

[Feebo]

You know what? Maybe I`m getting old but I`ve had enough of trying to help new keepers. That`s a few times now I`ve had people actually ASKING for help but then totally discarding it because it`s not what they want to hear. They`ve made thier mind up that "a fish tank will do" or "Three male snakes to a viv" is what they want to see and that`s the end of it. All other arguments for helping new keepers aside, I just haven`t got time, I litterally do not have time in my life to waste on these people. Of course I realise that sounds like I`m tarring all newcomers with the same brush. I realise they`re not all like that but still, I`ve had enough. They`ve gone out and bought a snake before they`ve been ARSED to learn a bloody thing about how to keep it alive and they just DON`T WANT TO HEAR "You`re going to need a suitable vivarium" or "You can`t put multiple males in one viv" or "You shouldn`t feed it every other day" and that`s that.
It`s a shame because it`s hard enough for the honest newcomer with all the rubbish on the internet and all the conflicting views that are floating about but I`ve just had it. It just pisses me right off when someone blatantly just doesn`t want to hear anything against what they`ve already made thier minds up about. I WILL put six male Cornsnakes in a fish bowl and that`s that, now tell me something I WANT to hear! Balls to that, I`ve had enough. They can find out for themselves, and when they`ve got a sick snake or a dead snake because they didn`t want to listen to experienced advice? They can get advice on how to deal with RI`s or scale damage from someone else! Time and again this is happening and it`s just annoying me. They can learn the hard way, or at least without my years of experience. Much the same as a petulant teenager wouldn`t benefit from experienced help, people that have made thier minds up based on what THEY want and not what the snake NEEDS, just will never listen. I`ve bloody had it with them. Rant over.

[marvelfreak]

I can't say i blame you at all. I know a couple others on here that will not post on certain people post because they offer very good sound advice and it was total ignored (sorry if mispelled).Then they come back ask for help with a problem they could have avoided all together if they would have just listen to the advice they were getting with a open mind. Or the people your trying to help flat out get pissy with you. I haved snake for over 17 years and i am still learn more about them every day. When i ask a question i am always open minded about the answers i get. Some people just want a yes man.

We are all animal lover here and we have all done something at one time or another that has hurt or worse yet maybe even kill a poor animal. We just don't want to see people make the same mistakes. If it seems like we come off kind of hard on newbie with some of our answer, just remember we are a very passion bunch of people. And we just don't want to see some poor animal hurt or suffer because of stupidy. Answer might not always be what you want to here, but we don't care if it hurts your feeling WE CARE ABOUT THE HEALTH AND SAFTY OF ALL ANIMALS. It a true shame when people ask for help, but don't want to listen to the answers if it not what they want to hear. There are alot of people on here with years of herping and breeding under their belt. It be a shame to waste a great resource of first hand information.

[infernalis]

As with anything regarding our forum, please don't hesitate to use my PM box to voice whatever is on your mind.

If it can be corrected, I will.

I do realize that it's impossible to pass a magic wand over the ignorant and they will suddenly gain common sense, But I will do whatever I can to keep our forum flowing and talking and as friendly yet professional as possible.

Just remember guys, there are thousands of unregistered people who read these forums looking for information, and if we stop posting that information, then many animals will suffer in one way or another from perpetuated ignorance.

When someone posts misinformation or otherwise clouds up the help we all wish to provide, we need to ensure that the last post made is not the one loaded with bad advice..

Otherwise we may as well just flood the off topic sections with non relevant rubbish and be just like so many other forums on the net where people are talking about boobs and behinds or arguing rather than discussing our pets and husbandry practices...

[Feebo]

I heared that Wayne, that`s why this is such a shame. As you say, there`s no magic wand for these bloody people I realise that. I think as a compromise I`ll have a think about what to say and then post a thread offering a mentorship to any newcomer that actually seriously wants to learn, after all, I CAN be arsed, I just have less and less time for fools as I get older and my health declines further. Maybe you could sticky it when you spot it for me? That way I`m not totally removing myself and my experience from the arena. I`ve certainly had it with just helping out left right and centre though. I was sat up at midnight looking for links and typing out advise for that a.hole recently, it`s not going to happen again until I`m sure the person is (A) serious (B) mature enough to listen to experience and (C) actually requesting my personal help.
I`ve had enough. I don`t have the time to waste, it`s far too precious to give away to people like that who are obviously destined to stumble through their snake keeping life (and life in general) making needless mistakes and killing snakes because they`re lacking maturity, intelligence and humility.
Cheers Chuck I was thinking I might attract a few negative comments on this, it`s nice to know my forum friends understand my reasoning on this. How does that compromise sound to you Wayne?

[infernalis]

I try to look at the group as a whole rather than any one individual.

I guess what I'm saying is think about the other people who did use the links and learn something.

I know I have learned a lot just being here this last year..

[SnakeyJay]

to be fair though there are plenty of new people out there that have gone and researched as best as possible, and yet still get conflicting or wrong info. I myself have been having trouble with my young brb and yet one or two posts on here have practically solved the situation instantly.
dont let the ignorant few drown out the real hobbiests. x

[Freebody]

I agree with all views here, i would hate to see your wisdom go to waste freebo, as i have learned much from you and everyone else here, their is always going to be people that dont deserve to wear the skin on their back,let alone a reptile. The odd thing is this is by far the best forum i have posted on, the people here care about the pets ,not about how great the knoledge they hold is, ei, before i came here i had joined a different forum asking about my retic when i first got her if i could house her with a female coastal i had gotten, i got a strip torn off me for asking the question,i got What you dont know? omg your so stupid, i know lol you dont know lol i do lol, i got no help because they felt i didnt deserve an answere for being so ********....if i wasnt the person i am and said the hell with this im seeking help else where and found this place... well a certain person did the same to me here my first post but wayne made a fast pm and expained this place does care and to stick it out a bit and ill learn somthing here,and so i did and he was absulutly right.which im gratefull indeed because it may not have been the answere i wanted but it was the help i needed. so these people that bite the hand that feeds them on this forum here, must not have been on some of other forums "not all are bad but i have found a couple before this,LOL,because this place is by far the best place for anyone who cares about their pets and its due to people like you feebo and wayne and chuck and all the other people i have become friends with here im just using your names because you posted this topic, so lets not give up now because of people who snap back at the answere to their quesions, so other poeple to shy to join, can come by and read it, "like" lol what was posted and feel they have somthing to offer and join and teach us somthing we dont know,an so on and so on my 2 cents.

[presspirate]

Originally Posted by infernalis

I try to look at the group as a whole rather than any one individual.

I guess what I'm saying is think about the other people who did use the links and learn something.

I know I have learned a lot just being here this last year..

I lurked the forums for a couple of months before I actually signed up. I read posts going back a few years. I have to say that the current group of active posters are the very best.
There is so much conflicting information out there, and everyone has there own opinion. What works well for one person does not always work well for another.
Feebo, your posts are well thought out, informative, and often humorous. I always enjoy reading them. I guess what I am trying to say, is along the lines of what has been said numerous times in this thread. These forums are a group thing. when someone posts a thread, it is read by many many people. So it may be that one person started it, but it is the "groups" thread, or indeed the whole internets thread. If you or anyone else were to stop offering advice because of one or two, or even a dozen people, the whole internet would miss out.

[Feebo]

@ Snakeyjay Oh yeah I know, I`m not suggesting nobody does, I wouldn`t try and tarr them all with the same brush, of course not. I`m not trying to say that at all. It`s just the people that make very little effort that upset us all I`m talking about. I really do totally understand and agree with what you guys are saying about not chucking the towel in because of a few muppets, I really do. Unfortunatly I don`t think there`s a way we can squeeze any gratitude out of someone that has none in thier heart. I don`t think we can pump any intelligence into anyone that has no natural intelligence and we can`t make any of these people realise, appreciate and understand that the person giving the advice that you ASKED for, is a real person, a real person with a real life and all the trials that go with it. A real person that takes offence at being treated like that having taken precious time out of thier day, often at midnight, to try and help them with thier problem. A real person with years of experience in snake keeping that you just DO NOT talk to in that bloody manner! None of the problem ones seem to realise that when they ask for advice, picking and choosing what suits them instead of thinking about the snakes needs is going to upset someone so passionate and dedicated to snakes?! Is it not bloody obvious?! But there`s no way of dealing with that is there, we are just expected to put up with it, to tollerate it and treat it as normal. My time is even more precious now I`m crippled and in terrible pain every bloody day, I`m sure you`re seeing my point here? But short of just putting up with that sort of crap, what else is there to do? What on earth could anyone say to these people to make them listen? Or to make them have a bit of bloody respect? Or to make them see sense? The only thing I can possibly think of is a sticky thread for the attention of new keepers carefully explaining that when they ask us for help that we are actually taking time out of our very real lives to do something for a stranger and to be sure to respect that. Maybe explaining that if keepers of many many years experience are treated poorly when asking them to take time out of thier days, that is just not on. That it`s understandable we will point out very simple errors in husbandry because we care so very much about captive snakes. That we may well take offence at ignored ESSENTIAL advice. If we see people keeping ten snakes of mixed species in something meant for Goldfish, we may be upset at refusal to change that unacceptable situation. People can do what they please, but while you`re here and asking us for our time and effort in aiding you, you could show a little respect. Ignoring essential advice on such matters as the above is down right offensive, especially when you then proceed to ask for more advice but only things you want to hear.
Not doable? Unrealistic? Maybe... But you see my point.....

[Freebody]

I know what you mean, A reach out and smack botton for the internets is somthing somthing i have have on my wish list. lol, but untill are dreams come true, A sticky that explains just what you said doesnt sound like a bad idea thats for sure.

[infernalis]

After this thread runs its course, I'll compile all the most relevant bits together and post it so all can read.

One thing that we do have to remember, people will come and people will go. It's just the way it is. The forum has a core of regulars and some new users will dive right in and others will just make a couple posts and vanish..

Generally the ones that enjoy learning and advancing their skills are the ones that stick around the longest, the ones that either think they already know everything or don't want to learn anything, well they drift off rather quickly. (or become so bothersome they get banned)

[Feebo]

Oh yeah I know... There`s nothing at all wrong with that, some people just aren`t interested in becoming part of an online community. They just want answers and then off they go. The very same thing happens on an invertabrate forum I moderate on and of course we are happy to help them just as we are happy to help anyone else.
It`s a difficult one really isn`t it because as I say, you can`t teach manners to people that aren`t interested. I think it really would be useful to explain in black and white simple terms, maybe in the rules of the forum or as you the admin see fit, that in joining the forum you really must understand that people here are more than a little passionate about snakes. So passionate infact that we feel obliged to point out failings in the husbandry of new keepers. Purely out of concern for the snake. There is no jostling for position as "Best snake advisor" on this forum, there are no other motives other than our passionately caring about the health of our snakes, your snakes and all snakes. If we see that you are keeping a snake in a fish tank or you are feeding it too much or not heating it properly, we, as passionate snake keepers are absolutely bound to tell you so and to explain in great detail if need be, the reasons why it is unacceptable. This forum by it`s very nature is full of people that want to see captive snakes are properly cared for. Turning up here asking for advice should be commended. You are here because you want to know things that may solve a problem or ensure your snake has a long and healthy life right? If a snake keeper with years and years experience points out something in your husbandry that is unacceptable, we are pointing it out out of concern for the snake, for NO other reason than that. We have been there and done that, WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. Snakes are unlike any other pet, there are things you just CANNOT get away with. Ignoring such essential advice on critical matters such as housing, heating, handling and breeding is GOING to OFFEND. If we know full well that what you are doing is GOING to harm your snake and you ignore our concerns and advice because you just don`t WANT to buy a suitable vivarium or you think that dangerous hot rock looks nice so you`re GOING to keep using it, you need to understand that that is going to flat out OFFEND experienced snake keepers on this forum. Wayne, do you think if you sticky the appropriate bits of this thread, that when you spot the this sort of thing happening in the future, you could issue a PM to the person with a link to this thread and a suggestion that they carefully read it in order to better understand why they have upset someone or why someone is up set with them ? It seems a certain calibre of newcomer needs it spelling out to them. What does everyone think of that?
Oh and thankyou very very much for the kind words guys, it`s proper heart warming to hear such things as have been said in this thread If only the actual people who this thread is all about had such appreciation there would be no problem now would there! Thankyou very much Lets see if maybe we can put something in place to try and help with this issue and maybe I won`t have to withdraw my advice from the table...

[infernalis]

Everyone here knows by now that I am keen on whatever approach keeps the peace in the community.

Generally I will PM someone if I see a problem, and of course I always welcome a PM pointing out problems.

[Feebo]

Yeeeeeah course we know that! lol That`s why you`re our favourite moderator Wayne! lol

[percey39]

I completely understand and agree feebos. As it is extremely frustrating seeing the same questions pop up when they were asked only a few days prior. The same advice has been given about this and yet neither people who asked the questions want to accept the answers!!
There are plenty of good people here and as Wayne has said these will be the people who stay here. I have been a member of a fair few forums and this one is by far my favourite as there is a good group of people here who are great keepers with good advice.