Swelling Under Eyes of Corn Snake

Charmers Owner · 04-01-09, 10:00 PM

I'm looking for any help here before I have to spend a fortune at a vet. Please help if you can.
My corn snake seems to have some swelling under his eyes, and he seems hesitant to eat. I feed him about every 10 days as recommended. He's only about 18 inches long and eats pinkies. The swelling is enough that his head is a bit deformed.

Smilts · 04-02-09, 01:09 AM

have you checked closely for mites?

Chu'Wuti · 04-02-09, 02:30 AM

Swelling may be an indication of infection, possibly an abscess. You might check the interior of the snake's mouth to see if you can see any signs of infection. Occasionally a snake gets an infected tooth, and the infection can spread.

Are you by any chance feeding live prey? A bite could also be the source of an infection. Of course, if you feed F/T, that won't be the problem.

More details about your husbandry ( enclosure set-up, temps, humidity, water, etc.) and a photo of your snake's head, perhaps several showing several angles, could be helpful as we try to figure out what's going on.

Charmers Owner · 04-02-09, 06:56 AM

How do I get his mouth open without hurting him? I only feed him the frozen pinkies (thawed in warm water of course). He's in a regular 10-gallon tank with the screen top. I change his water regularly as well. Temp stays between 72-80. I use a stick-on heating pad that's made for the tank and the humidity is usually around 65-70%. I'm not too savvy with getting pictures onto internet, but i'll try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chu'Wuti

Swelling may be an indication of infection, possibly an abscess. You might check the interior of the snake's mouth to see if you can see any signs of infection. Occasionally a snake gets an infected tooth, and the infection can spread.

Are you by any chance feeding live prey? A bite could also be the source of an infection. Of course, if you feed F/T, that won't be the problem.

More details about your husbandry ( enclosure set-up, temps, humidity, water, etc.) and a photo of your snake's head, perhaps several showing several angles, could be helpful as we try to figure out what's going on.

Kmef07 · 04-02-09, 10:22 AM

take a rubber spatula or credit card and gently put it in the snakes mouth it will eventually open up just hold it's neck so it doesn't whip around and bite you. this is the only way i've ever seen it done. Guess it is ok.

Chu'Wuti · 04-03-09, 08:50 AM

Let's see . . . temps are probably a little low. You need a warm zone that goes up to 85. In addition, when a snake is ill, raising the ambient temps is really helpful for healing; the temps probably shouldn't drop below 70 or even 75 while it's sick.

Where is your UTH (heating pad) located (end of tank, middle, inside, outside)? What substrate is above it (between the snake and the glass or the pad)?

The humidity sounds pretty high to me. Corns snakes generally don't need that much humidity. I'm guessing around 30% to 50% would be adequate--maybe someone else has more info on this?

F/T pinkies are good for a hatchling corn snake. At least we know your snake didn't get bitten by live prey so the likelihood of an abscess is lower. He might be ready for fuzzies as long as they are not much bigger around than his middle at the widest point. When you switch, he may be disconcerted by the fur the first time and drop the prey. Sometimes, they'll strike and let go two or three times before they decide it's OK to eat even with fur. LOL!

Kyle's suggestion about opening the mouth is one I've never heard before, though I guess it's like using a tongue depressor. You'd hold the snake right behind the head with one hand and use the tool (whatever you use--just don't use something sharp that could cut the snake's mouth) to pull down the lower jaw.

Basically, all I do is hold the snake right behind the head (get the snake wrapped around that arm or get someone to hold its body right beside you) with my fingers and gently squeeze the sides of the jaw with my thumb & forefinger of that hand while gently pulling the lower jaw down with my other hand. Don't worry too much about hurting it (though of course you want to be gentle and not squeeze too hard)--remember their jaws are extremely flexible.

As for uploading photos--load them onto your computer. Then go to photobucket.com and upload them there (they pretty much tell you how to do it). Then copy the link for forums and paste it here. If you can get someone to take a pic of the inside of its mouth--if you see something weird there--and upload that, it may be helpful to us in determining what's wrong & what needs to be done.

Good luck1

gonesnakee · 04-03-09, 04:18 PM

A rubber spatula works really good for opening mouths & its nice & soft & safe. I too think it is possibly a case of mouth rot & it will most likely require both a trip to the vet & antibiotics. Mouth rot is a secondary infection caused by a small wound getting infected. Whether actaully indeed mouth rot or not it definitely has an infection of some sort & will require addressing sooner rather than later as it will juts get worse otherwise. Mark

Chu'Wuti · 04-03-09, 08:38 PM

Mark, thanks for hopping on here--I've been worrying that it might be mouth rot.

Charmer, if you see any signs of infection in the snake's mouth or if you are unable to look in the snake's mouth, try to find a herp-certified vet near you. Here's a link to info to help you find the right vet: Herp Veterinarians

gonesnakee · 04-03-09, 08:58 PM

If it was still feeding though the mention of mites previsouly could be very valid as well as they love the areas around the eyes & in pits of the snakes that have heat pits. Mark

citysnakes · 04-03-09, 10:40 PM

charmer, can you post pics?

Smilts · 04-04-09, 01:30 AM

true its probably the mouth rot. I asked about the mites because he said hesitant to eat not wouldnt eat. My Oopsy

Chu'Wuti · 04-04-09, 12:39 PM

Well, we won't know until Charmer posts pics or gives more info, such as what the interior of its mouth looks like.

Just to eliminate mites as a possibility, Charmer, I suggest you remove all substrate materials currently in the enclosure and put down white paper toweling. If there are mites, you'll see evidence in the form of little black dots (size of the period at the end of this post) on the white paper towels.

Charmers Owner · 04-04-09, 03:23 PM

Thanks to all who helped out. The swelling is gone. I didn't do anything other than feed him and made sure he could get to his heating area by moving his rock a bit. Who knows what it was. Just glad it's gone. Thanks again

gonesnakee · 04-04-09, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charmers Owner

Thanks to all who helped out. The swelling is gone. I didn't do anything other than feed him and made sure he could get to his heating area by moving his rock a bit. Who knows what it was. Just glad it's gone. Thanks again

OK well you are not out of the water yet! It just didn't all swell up for nothing afterall & could very well still be at risk to either parasites or an infection in its mouth.
The mites that coul dhvae potentially been causing the swelling looom could have gourged themselves enough to move on, but IF mites WERE the cause they would still be present.
IF it was mouth rot or an infection in its mouth, gums throat that was causing the swelling the abcess that could have been there? MAY have burst thus the swelling going away as well, but could very well STILL have an infection reay to flare right up still.

What you NEED to do is too ENSURE there are no mites present. Check the snake & cage really well, look for them in the water dish, just sit & take a long hard stare to see if you can see anything moving.
Should also get a rubber spatula, at any dollar store if you don't have one already & look in the snakes mouth too. If it smells bad at all (infected mouths will) or looks gross (cheesy, pus looking rap, red, irritated). You have issues to deal with. If the snake seems extra sensitve in any area that appears not quite right it should still be monitored closely.

Basically whatever may have caused this could very well STILL be present & things should be verified OK Cheers Mark

Chu'Wuti · 04-04-09, 04:31 PM

Quote:

whatever may have caused this could very well STILL be present & things should be verified

Absolutely. As Mark says, swellings do not occur for no reason. The problem with saying, "It's gone, I don't have to worry anymore" is that if the original cause still exists, it will occur again.

In addition, Rossi & Rossi, in "What's Wrong with My Snake?", if your snake did have an abscess: "The presence of one abscess may be a warning that there are other abscesses that you do not see . . . The treatment of abscesses almost always requires the use of systemic antibiotics along with removing the abscesses" (p.23).

Charmer, even if an abscess was present and burst and drained, some infectious material will still be inside the hole and can easily build up again. The reason an abscess bursts is because it has no place to go inside the body anymore; the pressure building up causes the weakest tissue to pop like a balloon, and the weakest tissue could easily have been inside the snake's mouth where you haven't been able to look. Once it stopped draining, the hole sealed up with the remaining pus still instead to start the process over again.

Mark, I have a question--according to Rossi & Rossi: "Reptile pus is usually solid, not liquid" (p.23). I do note the word "usually" in their statement, so apparently a liquid-filled abscess is a real possibility and burst and drained?