First Snake - JCP

[DracoLvr]

Hey Everyone!

I am getting a JCP from Will Bird around the 15th of this month, and was wondering if you guys could help me get some more info! I've researched, but there are several things that I need some clearing up on. The main thing is temps/heating. I'm planning on using a plastic tub in the beginning, what is the best heat source to use? I have read SO many different things on temperature...what temps do you recommend? Any random facts on them are much appreciated!

Megan

[The Snake Guru]

It's extremely hard to heat a plastic tub, in a normal household....personally if you are aquiring a youngster I would look into a 10 gallon setup or something along those lines....it isn't going last you long but it would be much easier to setup that trying to get the plastic tub idea to fly. Your temps should be in the mid 80s backround temp. and 90-95 degrees for the hotspot....though I would shoot for the low end of the 90s on JCPs.

~B~

[DracoLvr]

Thanks Brad! And I've read that with JCP a 40gallon will house them for life, correct? I have a spare 25 gallon high tank that I could use for a whlie, as it's only 2 feet long at the moment, then I could get a 40g. Is this enough?

And with a tank, what do you use for heating? An UTH?

I'm just having a hard time finding good sites on them!

Megan

[The Snake Guru]

Welllllllll, personally I would go a bit bigger than a 40 gallon, but it's true Jungles are one of the smaller of the crapets so you could probably get by on it, assuming you don't have a female that goes for the gold so to speak.

Heating wise I would look at a combination UTH and Overhead nighttime spot/heat bulb, with a full spectrum flourescent for astetics. Should be able to get by on the 25 gal for awhile.

Here's a sit you can check for info. Not sure on the rules of this forum...it is actually a forum geared twords all Morelia, but they have some great guys over there you should be able to find out a lot of info.
Welcome to MoreliaPythons.com

At anyrate happy to help, good luck with the new guy!

~B~

[DracoLvr]

Thanks again Brad! I can find a larger tank...

Megan

[The Snake Guru]

Absolutely....anything I can do just ask.

~B~

[decepticon]

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

It's extremely hard to heat a plastic tub, in a normal household....personally if you are aquiring a youngster I would look into a 10 gallon setup or something along those lines....it isn't going last you long but it would be much easier to setup that trying to get the plastic tub idea to fly. Your temps should be in the mid 80s backround temp. and 90-95 degrees for the hotspot....though I would shoot for the low end of the 90s on JCPs.

~B~

how do you figure its "hard" to heat a plastic tub? this is easily done with a heating pad, undertank heater or heat tape lol.

plastic is actually a much more consistent conductor of heat than glass.....its alot harder to keep temps up in a screen-topped glass tank (not to mention humidity during ecdysis).

keeping snakes in plastic tubs is not a new "idea" by any means....I've been doing it for 10 years as have many other herpers....ever heard of a snake rack? most of the custom enclosures nowadays (BoaPhile, BARRS, etc) are made from a type of PVC plastic.

glass tanks are for fish my friend.

[The Snake Guru]

This is simple.....most people don't have snake rooms or houses that have room temps at 80+ degrees. The only way Rubbermaid containers "work" is if the ambient temperature of the room is already there, and all you have to do is create a hotspot (depending on the species) Putting a piece of flexwatt under a plastic tub in a room that 65 degrees +/- isn't going to cut it.

Aquariums, while not a big fan of these either they are the most practical for people just starting out in the hobby, or only keeping a couple snakes only minor modifications need to be done....the system works.

Yeaaah don't cop an attitude with me buddy.....I've been doing this just as long as you have (saw in a previous post 20 years) Your right it isn't a new idea....but then PVC caging is easier to mod out than a tub. Of course I don't really have to to worry about that since I've been building my own cages for 12+ years. Also plastic while it may be a fair conductor of heat....it also melts...since you've been doing this a while I'm sure you've seen what happens to these types of cages when the heat sources aren't watched...black molten plastic ring any bells? How many newer hobbiests do you know go out an buy a tub for snake and then hook up a thermostat or rheostat to control it and keep an eye on it? Sometimes being on the safe side isn't a bad thing especially for people just getting into the hobby.

Rubbermaids yes they can work....problem is most people don't use them properly.

~B~

[gonesnakee]

As far as size goes for an adult Carpet Python I recomend an enclosure that is at least 2H X 2W X 4L. We are talking about a 6-8 ft snake afterall. Carpets are very active & will utilize all the space given usually. As far as enclosures in general go as long as the snakes requirements are being met the snake could care less if its a glass tank, rubbermaid tub or a melamine or plastic enclosure. Some things work better than others for folks, Mark

[decepticon]

This is simple.....most people don't have snake rooms or houses that have room temps at 80+ degrees. The only way Rubbermaid containers "work" is if the ambient temperature of the room is already there, and all you have to do is create a hotspot (depending on the species) Putting a piece of flexwatt under a plastic tub in a room that 65 degrees +/- isn't going to cut it.

who keeps their rooms at 65f? You're making an awful lot of assumptions my friend.

Ambient air temps actually have very little effect on reptiles, seeing as how they aren't floating around in mid-air. Not to mention that heat rises, therefore an under-cage heat source will raise the ambient air temps in that area a bit.

Aquariums, while not a big fan of these either they are the most practical for people just starting out in the hobby, or only keeping a couple snakes only minor modifications need to be done....the system works.

I fail to see how glass tanks are more practical than plastic enclosures. They cost more and are less efficient. Maybe your definition of "practical" is different than mine?

Yeaaah don't cop an attitude with me buddy.....I've been doing this just as long as you have

So you're telling me you were seriously keeping herps when you were 9 years old? I'm no math genius but 29-20=9. lol

Look here, buddy...I was keeping herps before you ever got happy in the pants while looking at your mother's bra catalogue. Keep the snide comments to yourself and I'll do the same.

Also plastic while it may be a fair conductor of heat....it also melts...since you've been doing this a while I'm sure you've seen what happens to these types of cages when the heat sources aren't watched...black molten plastic ring any bells? How many newer hobbiests do you know go out an buy a tub for snake and then hook up a thermostat or rheostat to control it and keep an eye on it? Sometimes being on the safe side isn't a bad thing especially for people just getting into the hobby.

I have never had a plastic enclosure melt. Ever. Even when I have recorded pet-store bought heating pads at over 140F, the plastic did not melt. What kind of heating sources do you use, molten lava? lol

With certain heat sources, common sense and a regulatory device (thermostat/rheostat) is a good idea.....but no, Chicken Little, the sky will not fall if you don't use them in all circumstances.

[gonesnakee]

Resorting to name calling etc. does nothing to improve or enforce your argument Disrespecting others offering advice isn't of any useful purpose when offering their own suggestions. There are many ways to do things & they can all work. Just because someone is of a different opinion than yourself does not mean that they are wrong. Ambient temps in the room herps are kept is important, I keep my 1 room at around 80 F & use heat pads for "hotspots" for my pythons. Average room temp in my house otherwise is 65 F. Folks keeping only 1 snake are not going to heat a whole room & quite often prefer a tank setup over a tub as it will more than likely be set up for display purposes. Racks & rubbermaids work great for us breeders, but hobbists have different outlooks than us My "second" room I keep Pythons in isn't kept at 80 F (its 65-70 F) & in addition to heat pads those enclosures have lights on timers for "daytime highs" as it is too cold in the enclosures otherwise. I am using different style setups in the 2 rooms based on the ambient air temp in the rooms, everything works out just fine despite not being done the same way. Mark

[The Snake Guru]

who keeps their rooms at 65f? You're making an awful lot of assumptions my friend.

Ambient air temps actually have very little effect on reptiles, seeing as how they aren't floating around in mid-air. Not to mention that heat rises, therefore an under-cage heat source will raise the ambient air temps in that area a bit.

I did state +/- (Plus or Minus...just in case you needed further explanation)

As did you! You already assumed that everyone around keeps thier rooms at 80 degrees making a tub style rack and or cage the automatic choice for them....which it is not.

Ambient temps do not effect cage temps or effect cage temps very little. WOW that is truely something....if I had known that I would've setup all my snakes in the basement thrown a heat pad on them and called them good! To think I've been doing it wrong all these years! UTH pads raise ambient temperatures about 3 to 5 degrees directly above the heat source (on average) they are designed to heat the immediate area they are stuck too. And since your so good at math Take an average room temp of even 70 degrees add 5 degrees you get? 75 degrees noooow I'm no expert but if the coolside is supposed to be around the 80s.....and the above is around that....well hmmm that is interesting.

I fail to see how glass tanks are more practical than plastic enclosures. They cost more and are less efficient. Maybe your definition of "practical" is different than mine?

Depends on the situation and what you want out your enclosure.

So you're telling me you were seriously keeping herps when you were 9 years old? I'm no math genius but 29-20=9. lol

Look here, buddy...I was keeping herps before you ever got happy in the pants while looking at your mother's bra catalogue. Keep the snide comments to yourself and I'll do the same.

Yeah got my first python in 6th grade (a W.C BP) did my science project on him....would've went to state but they didn't allow live animal displays on the bus at the time blah ,blah, that was 19 years ago +/-....kept native herps before that. Please take some time and feel free to do some of that math you like so much.

And hey congrats on that! You were the one who started off with the sarcasim so perhaps you should take your own advice....and do leave my mother out of it, thank you very much. Since you've been keeping that long perhaps you should throw out the 60s books and try some newer ones....made some rather fantastic break throughs in the recent years....though I still do enjoy reading the old stuff, the information is out of date and full of holes.

I have never had a plastic enclosure melt. Ever. Even when I have recorded pet-store bought heating pads at over 140F, the plastic did not melt. What kind of heating sources do you use, molten lava? lol

With certain heat sources, common sense and a regulatory device (thermostat/rheostat) is a good idea.....but no, Chicken Little, the sky will not fall if you don't use them in all circumstances.

Well I've seen heat pads turn the bottom of a plastic cage to goo (above the heat source), I've temp. gunned heat strips without current limiters and recorded temps in excess of 200 degrees....neat.

Never said the sky would fall.....just for this person, and what they wanted to do with it the plastic tub idea was not going to work. read a little before you go flying off the handle....saves me time typing.

~B~

[decepticon]

Well, I can see that bandying words with a "guru" such as yourself is an ill-conceived notion for which I have no desire.

I'll leave you with these words on this subject.....you don't know everything. Nobody does. I certainly don't. Different does not always equate to negative. Portraying yourself as someone who thinks otherwise leaves the impression of pompous narcissism. If thats your goal, then you're surely succeeding. If not, well.....thats up to you.

[The Snake Guru]

Originally Posted by decepticon

Well, I can see that bandying words with a "guru" such as yourself is an ill-conceived notion for which I have no desire.

I'll leave you with these words on this subject.....you don't know everything. Nobody does. I certainly don't. Different does not always equate to negative. Portraying yourself as someone who thinks otherwise leaves the impression of pompous narcissism. If thats your goal, then you're surely succeeding. If not, well.....thats up to you.

Well thank god! who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks! LOL

And I shall leave you with these final words (at the risk of sounding like a "Know-it-all")

One: I never claimed to know everything, nor have I ever....of this you are very correct, anyone who thinks they know everything in this hobby is simply full of themselves for it is a constant learning curve and ever changing.

Two: Throwing out big words only proves you know how to use a dictionary...Kudos to ya man! "pompous narcissism" LOL How long did it take you to figure that one out?

And Three: At this point in the game I can already claim that I know more than you. NO ONE in thier right mind would've ever said that Ambient room temperatures only effect enclosure temperatures "a little bit"....My mother (of which you speak so highly of) could've told you that and she doesn't keep reptiles.

And for everyone else, I deeply regret this this entire post and everything and there for apologize for that.

~B~