Refusing Rats

[Zoe]

Hi,

I know this is a topic that comes up again and again, but there is one last thing I'd like to try with my snake. If I offer her only rats, never mice, forever, will she eventually eat the rat? Or will she just dwindle away until she starves to death? Of course, I can scent the rats with mouse blood or whatnot (that hasn't worked in the past, of course. any attempts resulted in her vomiting up the rat halfway through, dropping it after she struck at it, or not striking at all), and she seems to know that rats are food items, but definitely does NOT want to eat them.
I certainly don't want to try this if there is a chance she will forever refuse rats... Does anyone have experience dealing with VERY picky snakes, snakes who have refused rats, no matter how they are presented (ie live, really hot, brained, scented with chicken or mouse blood or that store-bought mouse scent, feeding a rat right after feeding a mouse, tying a very small rat to the tail of a mouse, sewing a mouse's carcass on a small rat, letting the snake go without food for a few months, leaving the snake in a small box with it overnight, pushing a rat against the butt of a mouse being swallowed etc etc), and how have you dealt with it? Did you ever succede in getting it to eat, or did you give up?

Thank you,
Zoe

[seann]

Zoe to relieve stress i bought mice for the picky eaters, i tried getting smaller rats, live ones ,the scent stuff nothing worked so i went back to mice, i am a quitter I gave up! i would like to know why they are picky when it comes to this it's probably the head size rats have a mean face

[Tim_Cranwill]

Are you talking about a carpet?

I have the same situation. I'm just hoping she lays a clutch this year because I "hear" it's an easy switch after egg-laying.

[Zoe]

i would like to know why they are picky when it comes to this it's probably the head size rats have a mean face

I don't think that is the case, as I have tried tying a small rat to the hind legs of a mouse. She accepted the mouse, swallowed it, and started on the rat. But when the rat was halfway down, I guess she tasted it, because she regurgitated it (and the mouse, of course).

Yup, it's a carpet. I had meant to post this in the carpet python forum, my bad. I don't plan on breeding her anytime soon, but I hate mice, they are hard to breed and take a long time to grow, and she needs to eat so many at once, and my other snake will accept rats, I just wish I could be keeping a pair of rats instead of a colony of mice.

Zoe

[Linds]

Originally posted by Zoe
I don't think that is the case, as I have tried tying a small rat to the hind legs of a mouse. She accepted the mouse, swallowed it, and started on the rat. But when the rat was halfway down, I guess she tasted it, because she regurgitated it (and the mouse, of course).

That doesn't sound encouraging at all. She really must not like rats if that is the case. Sounds to me like you have yourself a mouse-eater for life :/

[ozzy]

Have you tried bunnies? all my carpets that wont take rats will take bunnies it is much better then feeding 15 mice at a time.
Kyle Kunimoto

[Piers]

I put rat/hamsters what have you in a cage with dirty shavings of the sent animal I'm trying to mimic for about a week. I'll even put young rats in a cage of mice with dirty savings for a few days then offer the snake the rat. If the snake wont eat and you have to feed it give it rat sented mice to help the snake get used to the smell and taste. Its taken up to a year for me to change over some of my ball pythons.
good luck
Piers

[Ptindy]

Luckily, the two carpets I received from Kyle Kunimoto and my ball python all switched over to rats in the same night offered. When they are bigger I may try rabbits as they are dirt cheap.

How long have you let your snake go without eating before trying to switch over to rats??

Mike

[Zoe]

I put rat/hamsters what have you in a cage with dirty shavings of the sent animal I'm trying to mimic for about a week. I'll even put young rats in a cage of mice with dirty savings for a few days then offer the snake the rat. If the snake wont eat and you have to feed it give it rat sented mice to help the snake get used to the smell and taste.

Been there, done that :\ Mice are not acceptable if they smell like rats very much, either.

How long have you let your snake go without eating before trying to switch over to rats??

Two and a half months, then I caved.

Have you tried bunnies? all my carpets that wont take rats will take bunnies

Because she will eat mice, gerbils, chicks, you name it, she would probably also eat a baby rabbit. However, baby rabbits aren't the easiest animals to breed, or the cheapest ones to get a hold of if you only want to a buy a couple (as opposed to a truckload...)

Thanks for your help... doesn't look like Redemption will be comming anytime soon, eh? I guess I was hoping that as a starving person would think their formerly most hated food was delicious, she might someday be hungry enough to eat a rat. But from what I'm gathering, she may never do so.

Zoe

[Ptindy]

We have a labd in Lethbridge South of Calgary who sells bunnies for dirt cheap. Way cheaper then feeding rats. I would look into bunnies if I were you. It does seem like it never will take rats tho if you've waited 2 and a half months and still nothing. That's a long time! But I would still try every now and again.


Mike

[vanderkm]

Our Irians were most persistent in refusing rats even though they would take gerbils and chicks. We tried all the methods in the book short of sewing the rat into a mouse skin and gave up! Longest they went without food was a couple months before we gave in, but I was convinced they would go a year without feeding before taking a rat - they wouldn't even consider it.

We have now placed these snakes with other owners but I know that the male has continued to refuse rats with persistent trying for over the past year. He is now accepting hamsters but in my limited experience Irians were much more stubborn than jungles (and we were warned about the jungles).

Based on experience with other species, not Irians, I suspect Tim may be right - coming out of egg laying would be an ideal time to attempt a switch - we have had several snakes that were picky feeders that turned around after breeding - may be your best hope for conversion.

good luck with her - it's been a while since we have seen pics of this girl - would be great if you have some to share!

mary v.

[gonesnakee]

Have you ever tried Live? Before ya all flip out lisen LOL Starve the snake for a while (2-3 months) & offer a live fuzzy rat or bunny (week old, eyes closed) neither of which can harm your Python. Quite often they will take a live one especially when hungry & the prey being small & harmless. You can even scent the live if ya want. If you get it to take either feed it a few times the live fuzzy rats or bunnies, starve it again for a while & then go to a nice sized dead prey item (rat or bunny), get it good & heated up (maybe even scented) & tease feed it & hopefully it will take it. I know a breeder that has had good success this way getting them from mice to rabbits & the same may work for Rats. I don't agree with feeding live but to get your snake over to a "proper" D/T prey is worth it to feed a few live fuzzy rabbits or rats to do so. Mark
P.S. 2 1/2 months isn't very long for a Carpet to go without food really, as long as it is subadult to adult & has a good girth to begin with.

[Zoe]

Thanks!

Mary: Yes, Irians seem to be the most troublesome of the two when it comes to that. Though they aren't at all hard if you start them on rat pinkies as babies. I only had one baby who didn't eat rat pinks like all the others, so I ended up putting a little gerbil fur on the pink and voila, he never looked back. Not so with this little darling I'm afraid, I wish I had known what I was geting myself into when I bought her!... But I would have bought her anyway... Have been a little busy lately ,but I'm sure my love to take pictures will start to nag at me soon :-D

Mark: I have tried live, yes. It was a little fuzzy rat I believe, maybe just before it's "Hopper" stage. I can't remember the exact circumstances, I do know I had let it run around in mouse bedding for a day. She struck at the poor thing, but didn't swallow. (The rat was not seriously harmed, lol).
When you say, "Starve it for a while," what do you mean? And how long could I wait to try to starve her before I get to the "point of no return"?

Oh, and yes she is an adult.

Thanks!
Zoe

[gonesnakee]

Being an adult it should be able to go 3-4 months even depending on its girth to begin with & of course you would have to monitor its overall health & girth as the time elapsed. You don't want it to become thin & lethargic, but most adult pythons can go for quite a while without eating. My adult Womas decided to "hunger strike" all summer so far & haven't eaten for around 3 months with no ill effects or loss of girth or strength. As long as the specimen isn't being affected health wise they can go a long time with nothing but water. They quite often go without in the wild for very long periods.

On a side note in reguards to starting Carpets on pinkies, be it mice or rats, quite often Carpet pythons won't acknowledge something as a prey item if it doesn't have hair. I have seen/heard of ones that wouldn't touch a pinkie live or dead but throw in a fuzzy & wham, all because of the hair on it. A lot of people have never heard this & sometimes it all it takes in the beginning. Mark

[Ryan and Katie]

Zoe - Sometimes they may switch over to rats when you least expect it. We have a three year old male irian that was an absolute non rat eater until about three months ago.... We had tried every trick in the book and nothing ever worked. Then one day we had an extra rat defrosted and he went for it. We didn't do anything that we haven't tried before and it completely suprised us. I guess it was just his time.... Patience is a virtue.. LOL

Mark - We know what you're going through with the womas. Ours have also decided to take some time off feeding for the summer and it's driving us nuts. What ever happened to the amazing woma feeding response....