Pit Bulls, something to ponder

[RFB]

Something to ponder in the debate over whether Pit Bulls should be banned.

“They are not large dogs, but they have an enormous power-to-weight ratio. Their jaw strength is far greater than any other dog.
A Rottweiler will exert 800 pounds-per-square-inch jaw pressure and a Bull Terrier will exert 1200psi. A Pit Bull will exert more than 2000 psi.
You can have savage Labradors and savage Chihuahuas, but none of them has the potential to maim & kill that a pit bull does.
42% of all dog related deaths in the US are from Pit Bulls - & they constitute 1% of all dogs. 70% of those deaths were children. “

It’s nice to think, that in an ideal world everyone would train their dogs properly , and act responsibly when selling the animals they have bred. Unfortunately this doesn’t happen in the real world. Too often Pit Bulls end up in the wrong hands and that’s when the problems start to occur.

So what do we do? Regulating the sale of animals to qualified candidates would be the ideal solution, but in reality, who’s going to enforce such a program. Government at all levels is overwhelmed this days and I can’t see the political will to set aside the money and resources that such an act would entail.

Everyone always says that the key to alleviating the problem is to educate the public, but once again who pays for this and maintains it. It’s just not going to happen. And education even with the best intentions has never really solved anything. Look at the AIDS epedemic. We’ve been educating people for years about the potential dangers and it hasn’t made a huge difference. And what about gun education? It doesn’t work in the states and the only reason we’ve managed to avoid the same trap is that we ban handguns and assault weapons.

Pit Bulls are beautiful animals. But the potential for abuse is too high. People will never modify their ways enough to make a real difference. Most things in life, when used properly, are harmless. Handguns if correctly maintained and used, cause no problems. But the potential for abuse is too high so we ban them. I think the same can be said for Pit Bulls. In the right hands and in the right environment, they are fantastic animals. The problem is they don’t end up in the right hands often enough. Since that’s the case, an outright ban is the only solution.

[Shad0w]

Exttremely well put...

I cant agree with you more.

[Syco]

Originally posted by RFB
Something to ponder in the debate over whether Pit Bulls should be banned.

“They are not large dogs, but they have an enormous power-to-weight ratio. Their jaw strength is far greater than any other dog.
A Rottweiler will exert 800 pounds-per-square-inch jaw pressure and a Bull Terrier will exert 1200psi. A Pit Bull will exert more than 2000 psi.
You can have savage Labradors and savage Chihuahuas, but none of them has the potential to maim & kill that a pit bull does.

Where did you get your facts? Here is a statement that goes against what you said.
MYTH: American Pit Bull Terriers have 1600 P.S.I. in jaw pressure.
FACT: Dr. 1. Lehr Brisbin of the University of Georgia states, "To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparison to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs. There are, moreover, compelling technical reasons why such data describing biting power in terms of "pounds per square inch" can never be collected in a meaningful way. All figures describing biting power in such terms can be traced to either unfounded rumor or, in some cases, to newspaper articles with no foundation in factual data." Need more be said?

As far as your bite statistics, I question them also.

[marisa]

Your post is good (although I also find the jaw power questionable but maybe true) but be careful what you want done to another persons hobby, when your own hobby is just as dangerous in some people's eyes, and they want it removed from society.

There is the same amount of bad press, and people looking to ban snakes in North America as their are for pit bans, if not more. When you allow a group to successfully take a species away they feel is harmful, it's only a matter of time before their same points and principles and tactics are used against snakes.

Marisa

[hudson]

I'm with syco, I'd really like to know where you obtained your information and statistics from.

Kate

[RFB]

The reference for death statistics is available in a paper submitted by the CDC(center for desease control) entitled
"Breeds iof Dogs involved in Fatal Attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998"

by Jeffrey J. Sacks, MD, MPH; Leslie Sinclair, DVM; Gail C. Golab, PhD, DVM; Randall Lockwood PhD.

Bite pressure statistics I can't find right now but I will cite the reference as soon as I have it.

I don't have a problem questioning anyones hobby when I believe it to be dangerous. As far as Herps go, theres an awful lot that could be improved there as well and if we don't do it ourselves it will be done for us.

[Artemis]

Oh good grief.

Pit bulls have the power to kill people, sure, and so do lots of other animals, both kept domestically and wild, that are all over north america right this very second.

Once they are "banned" what exactly shall we do with them? Shoot them on sight until the species is extinct? Keep them in zoos? Its ridiculous to think of banning an animal. Its an animal for petes sake. I dont particularly care if people want to keep poisonous snakes, pit bulls, grizzly bears, or whatever.

People keep pit bulls, and some of them attack and occassionaly fewer still will kill a person. This is true of lots of other breeds of dogs, also, only they dont get as much media attention, simply because they ARENT pit bulls.

Simple fact is, whatever your stance on pit bulls is, they exist, and whether that is in the wild or domestically, there isnt crap you can do about it.

Personally, Id rather people keep them domestically. Then at least some of them will be be spayed and neutured to provent exponential reproduction, and in my mind they will be more friendly to humans, if they are kept with love and discipline instead of abuse.

Horses seriously injure, and sometimes kill people too, guess we should ban them next. Oh and don't forget Edwins post about the hamster..... ban em all. Pets are all dangerous disease carrying death threats.... we should ban pet keeping...

I gotta call BS on this whole silly debate. And the other equally silly debate with 100 posts in it. Pit bulls EXIST people, deal with it. Id rather have them be around people more than not, and since I dont believe its ethical to wipe ANY species off the planet, Id rather see them kept as pets than running wild.

Marisa is right, also (besides being a genius ) and if you live in constant fear of a pit attack or something, which really is kinda silly, then for your own peace of mind, go get a firearm, before they are banned, too. Anyone else think this is all ludicrous?

Artemis

[RFB]

Banning prevents ownership in the area the law applies to. A grandfather clause or accomodations for existing animals would of course have to be made. I do have a problem with people keeping poisonous snakes, grizzly bears, or whatever in my neighborhood.

Am I afraid of Pit Bulls? depends on the circumstance. But I think you're hiding your head in the sand if you think that they can't be legislated out of existance. Look at all the laws already enacted that ban certain kinds of animals.

On a side note, have you ever seen anyone attacked by a Pit Bull? Have you ever seen the kind of damage it can do? You wouldn't be quite so blase if you had. I stand by what I said, I think they should be banned

[marisa]

O.k. like someone brought up this before....each year horses kill as many or more people than dogs do.

Why are they not recieving the same attention? Why are they legal?

Marisa

[BoAddict]

every pit bull i have ever come across has been as nice as all can be , 1 outta all the pits i knew didnt have any problems with any other animals and this 1 just went nuts for squirells.

to say that you disagree with people keeping poisonous snakes in your neighborhood is no different than your neighbor saying that they dont like you keeping whatever you keep.

ALL ANIMALS HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE DANGEROUS

Mike

[RFB]

Deaths from horses, when they occur, are to people that are VOLUNTARILY engaged in doing something that they enjoy. If Pit Bulls only killed their owners I'd have no problem with them. Pit Bulls account for a disproportionately, large portion of attacks on humans. And the people killed by them aren’t engaged in such pastoral pursuits as riding or grooming.

As far as poisonous snakes in my neighborhood, well as far as I know that’s illegal. Should it be? That’s another discussion entirely.

[Cruciform]

I don't like the idea of banning animals, especially since virtually all mine are banned in this city (but I have a legal ace up my sleeve if it ever becomes an issue).

The problem is with the public. We can say regulate or educate, yet the average person is lazy about these things. How many people own dogs? How many are as attentive to their real physical and psychological needs as the small pockets of communities on the web that parallel our own community. Very few I would imagine.

There is no simple solution to this because people don't take responsibility for their actions, and the courts have made it easier and easier to point fingers and have blamed assigned based on how much money you're willing to pay for legal representation.

I support legislation that doesn't ban the animals in any way, but treats the animal as an extension of the owner. If your dog/snake/etc. injures someone, then you should be prosecuted for assult, attempted murder, etc. depending on the severity of the injuries and circumstance.

If one of my snakes were actually big enough to hurt someone, and managed to do so because of my own negligence, I would expect to be charged.

Though if someone breaks into my house and is killed by an animal, tough luck for them.

[Matt_K]

Just some more Myths about Pit Bulls that soo many tend to believe cause the Media says they're true.. I mean, since the Media claims them true, they must be, right??

Don't Pit Bulls have LOCKING JAWS?
No. A pit bull's ability to "lock on" with it's jaws is one WHOPPER of a myth that refuses to let go! The jaws of a pit bull are built just as any other dog's jaw. There's no 'enzyme', no special mechanism that would make a pitbull's jaws 'lock'. They're DOGS, not alligators! What a pit bull does have is strength, tenacity, and determination. When he grasps something he wants to hang onto, his willpower is the glue.

Will a pit bull that shows aggression towards other animals go after PEOPLE NEXT?
No. Aggression towards other animals and human aggression are two totally different things. We've heard this frightened quote, "He went after a dog (or cat) and our kids might be next!". This is one big MONSTER of a myth that has generated a host of damaging anti-pit bull hysteria. It is perfectly 'normal' for a pit bull to be wonderfully affectionate and friendly with people, while at the same time not 100% trustworthy around other dogs. Like any breed of dog that we see in family homes today, a properly raised, well socialized, responsibly owned pit bull should never be human aggressive. Pit bulls that do show aggressive behavior towards humans are not typical of the breed and should be humanely euthanized.

Aren't Pit Bulls MEAN and VICIOUS?
No more vicious than golden retrievers, beagles or other popular dogs! In a recent study of 122 dog breeds by the American Temperament Testing Society (ATT), pit bulls achieved a passing rate of 83.9%. That's as good or better than beagles ... 78.2%, and golden retrievers ... 83.2%. These stats are from, http://www.atts.org/

For other Pit Bull myths, check out MONSTER MYTHS

-Matt

[Jayson]

Banning does not stop or fix anything, I will bet most of the people on this sight and in the reptile community are in violation of at least some sort of law or bylaw.

I have to question the stats provided because i see more pit bulls being walked on leashes around the city then any other breed of dog. So i would have to believe that 1% of all breeds is incorrect, But then again there are hundreds of breeds of dogs out there, so i guess it depends on how you look at it. Also your reference is 6 years old, and the popularity of pits have grown alot in the last 6 years. I also believe that many times studies are conducted by bias people. I could do a study on pit bulls as well and probably find very different resault then the one you pointed out.
I have kept pit bulls for many years, and I believe that they are one of the most intellegent breeds out there and they have been much friendlier then my lab or any other dog we have kept.

[annieb_mice]

Just wanted to point something out here...
There are a LOT of people who haven't the faintest idea what a pit bull looks like. One of my friends was walking her pittie in a park and several children came up and started playing with her dog (who quite enjoyed the attention.) The mother came up and complimented my friend on such a well-behaved dog and what a wonderful dog this was around children.... then she asked what kind of dog it was. Once my friend said it was a pit bull the woman was shocked and said she thought all pit bulls were vicious killers. This woman had NO idea what a pit bull looked like.
How many times have you heard about a "pit bull" attack on the news, only to see the dog and realize it was NOT a pit bull... and likely didn't have any pittie in it? I can think of at LEAST three times on the local news here where they have mistakenly called a "vicious" dog a pit bull or rottie... when their error was pointed out, they never apologized but simply changed the wording to "a vicious dog" but the general public doesn't hear the change... they heard pit bull or rottweiler first... and so the bad reputation continues.
The FACT is that ALL dogs have the capability of killing a human. (Does anyone remember the dachhund who tore a hole in a playpen and dragged the baby out and killed it?)
There are MANY dog bites that happen EVERYDAY, the majority of these bites are never reported.
If any of you are history buffs, you might remember the pit bull as being on the posters representing the US in WWII. Or the Buster Brown dog... or the dog from Our Gang... or "His Master's Voice" Victrola... and the list goes on.
Here is a link to pitbull myths... which include the jaw strength, aggression towards humans, and so on.
http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html
There are many other webpages which describe the temperament of the pit bull and also give information on this particular breed of dog.
The fact is that pit bulls are used in MANY different ways... including service dogs (working with handicapped), search and rescue, police service, drug and bomb dogs, ect. There were pit bulls doing search and rescue in the 9/11 attack.
Before you take a stance saying that pit bulls are all aggressive and should all be banned... please do some research and actually MEET these incredible dogs!
One last comment... these dogs are NOT suitable for EVERYONE. These are very social dogs who love interacting with their family. When raised in a loving family, these are one of the best family dogs you can find. However, like many other animals, INCLUDING reptiles, they often fall into the hands of people who care only about using them as a "status" symbol.
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~