New Lampro (Not sure of locale)

Invictus · 10-21-03, 11:14 PM

Ok, I adopted this King snake, thanks to Mark IsBell (I won't say who the original owner was in case she doesn't want anyone to know). Problem is, we're having trouble identifying the locale. We were told it is a "davis" or maybe "davies" locale CalKing.. but my searches on the net for this turned up NOTHING. She does look surprisingly like an Eastern Chain king snake, but doesn't have the usual face markings you'd expect.

Anyway, she's got a pretty classic king attitude so far - lots of tail rattling and a bit of musk while she's getting used to us.

No bites yet though (knock wood).

Please let me know if you've heard of a Davis CalKing, but I'm pretty convinced it's an eastern:

To go along with the theme of most of my other Lampros, her name is now Igraine. (We have Arthur, Guenevere, and Merlin, and will be picking up Morganna soon.

)

This brings our count up to 27 snakes. I regret nothing!

Tim_Cranwill · 10-21-03, 11:31 PM

<i>"This brings our count up to 27 snakes. I regret nothing!"</i>

Shame on you!

We need a full body shot here guys. Could it be a melanistic aberrant cal king???

marisa · 10-21-03, 11:37 PM

Looks like those "Menedota" cal kings someone was posting on queensnake.com They are also called Davis kings I believe. Since I cannot link to queensnake here (and dont want too) I will just qoute the poster:

"There are a few isolated populations of melanistic kingsnakes throughout the Central Valley of California as depicted by the triangles in the range map in Stebbin's field guide. These are sometimes refered to as black-belly Cal kings and yes they do look very similar to the Baja kings. Their color is a little lighter (more brown) than the Baja animals which tend more toward black. The patterns are also more distinct in the Calif specimens. Eric Loza wrote an article about them in the old Reptile and Amphibian Magazine though I do not know what issue."

Photos of various cal kings, locals, including Mendota cal kings.
http://myweb.cableone.net/azmilk/king.htm

Marisa

NewLineReptile · 10-21-03, 11:37 PM

What ever it is sure is nice
Congrats!

Brandon

Clownfishie · 10-21-03, 11:58 PM

She's very pretty -- and excellent name choice! Hehe.... Best of luck with her...

munchy · 10-22-03, 12:42 AM

positive it isnt an eastern? how old is she?

Jeff_Favelle · 10-22-03, 01:01 AM

Excellent photo!!

Invictus · 10-22-03, 10:24 AM

Marisa - You rock! I think you hit the nail right on the head with the Menedota King. The site you posted says they are also called "Black Bellied Kings". This thing's belly is as black as an indigo, and it is a chocolate brown color. Thanks!

Invictus · 10-22-03, 10:26 AM

Anyone got a male they can sell me?

marisa · 10-22-03, 10:30 AM

I would think its definitly a Davis/Mendota king than. King localities ROCK!!!!

I would definitly try and get your hands on a male for that lady and keep up with the locality instead of breeding it out into another "phase" or locality. But it sounds like thats what you will do! Not enough California locality specific kings in Canada if you ask me! But then again, I am a HUGE California Kingsnake fan. haha

Good luck with her. How big/old?

Marisa

Invictus · 10-22-03, 12:10 PM

How old? No idea. How big? I'd say pushing 4 feet. No worries on me cross-breeding even the different locales. If I can't find another Menedota, she's a pet, not a breeder.

Vanan · 10-22-03, 02:52 PM

Invictus, be careful about calling an animal a locality when you have no locality info whatsoever. When people sell locality stock, it means their line comes from WC's in a locale. Just because a snake looks like a locality doesn't mean it has to have come from it. Big difference there. The Mendota look can be reproduced by outcrossing too so there's not guarantee that yours is from that locality. It may look like it but do not slap a locality name on it. If this same thing happened in most US forums, there would be lots more problems.

Instead, maybe just call it a Davis-TYPE Black belly or something. Sounds better than claiming locality on a non-locale info animal. Still a nice snake and it's am awesome find! Lucky a**! Find some more and let me know!

P.S. BTW, if you're ever short on cash or need to find a new home for her/him, feel free to give me a shout.

Ace · 10-22-03, 06:40 PM

Since you don't know the locality for sure, personally, I'd breed her to an albino. The higher melanistic look would produce whiter albinos. Like I had with Angel...

Thanks for looking

gonesnakee · 10-22-03, 06:53 PM

I think Marisa hit it pretty close on the head. The snake was orginally purchased from a petstore in Edmonton (PJ's pets ?) & was sold as a Davis (or Davies) locale. Age is unknown. The pictures in Marisa's link look real close to me (having seen/owned the snake). I orginally told Ken what I've said here & that I thought it might be some kind of Eastern or Chain/California cross or maybe even a type of melanistic. I even called it a "chocolate phase CK" just to throw a name at it. It is definitely Choclately to look at & has a nice solid black belly. I have no idea for sure but Marisa's link is the closest "educated guess" yet IMO. Mark I.
P.S. Any luck on getting er to eat for you Ken?

Vanan · 10-22-03, 10:44 PM

That is a pretty cool looking cali king! Some of them can get pretty darn dark. Those baja cali kings can be almost solid black!

Anyhow, just to back up Vanan, another reason not to slap on locale info on an animal when you have no DEFINITIVE proof is that you take away from those breeders that have been working hard to keep their locale info/lines pure. Many of them keep track of their babies in order to know where they are going, who is breeding so that further down the line, they can say, YES, that animal is such and such locale. If you want to know hardcore locale people and really get an understanding, get to know ROSY BOA PEOPLE. Darn, many are die hard purists (Roy and myself included). Also John Cherry is a die hard purist for many NA colubrids and just a good guy to talk to.

It can be really exciting to get an animal and think oh it's this or that, and blah blah blah. I know I went through that, but the reality is, there aren't a lot of neato locality animals in Canada. There doesn't seem to be a market and thus no supply. It's good to see that there are people out there (Marisa, Vanan and yourself) who do want to keep locales pure, but before you begin, make sure your animal is without a doubt locale pure!

~Katt using Vanan's acct