Healthy breeding size for female kenyans?

Allan · 10-07-03, 07:35 PM

What's an appropriate weight/size for breeding E. colubrinus?

I came across some information (on The Sand Boa Page) stating the approximate size, at maturity, for female E. colubrinus was length about 18" and weight approximately 200 grams. That seems really tiny to me.

What's a good "healthy" size for a female about to be bred for the first time?

Thanks for any info,
Allan

Stockwell · 10-08-03, 11:31 PM

You're right that is tiny but Chris Harrison is correct, and guys do occasionally breed 18 inchers
as young as 18 months but it's not recommended.(I've done it in the past)
They should be a least 3 years old and preferably
over 20 inches, otherwise There is a higher risk of complications and the litter will be very small(2-6)and the babies will be extremely tiny, and might be too small for pinkies.

BoidKeeper · 10-09-03, 04:34 AM

Roy do you use a weight factor in determining sexual maturity in Kenyans? Have you ever weighed an adult female before using her in a project?
Thanks,
Trevor

Invictus · 10-09-03, 11:25 AM

We have a 21" 5 year old female that we will be breeding to an 18" male. Because Kenyans are pretty tiny anyway, and there is not a huge difference between their birth size and their adult size, I go by age. 2 years old for a male may be worth giving a try, but 3 is better. For a female, I wouldn't breed less than 4 years old.

B-Rep · 10-09-03, 12:50 PM

Absolutely!

Invictus has got the idea...I never bred my Kenyans untill they were over four. No matter how big or fast they grew. If you breed a couple males to each female, you have a possibility of reducing slug counts as well...

Stockwell · 10-09-03, 04:02 PM

Trev, my keeping practices were pretty much established back in the 80's before cheap digital scales were available.
Back then weighing snakes was done only for dosing antibiotics, and usually only vets had good scales because they were expensive... I remember we used the fish scales with the hook for big snakes we'd hang in a bag, but they weren't accurate

I realize the new generation of herpers, are quite diligent about weighing everything. Neonates, eggs, adults, hell even dumps, and good record keeping is excellent husbandry...

However, I can't remember the last year I weighed a snake... I just plain don't do it as it's not one of my set routines.
I felt so guilty last year I ran out to Business Depot and bought a real nice little Sunbeam job, for around 60 bucks...
It's still in the box...LOL
I've recently been asked for some adult Rosy weights... I guess I better open the thing up eh?
Most of my breeder Kenyans are around the 2 foot mark
but I do have and old one that is just shy of 3 foot.

BoidKeeper · 10-09-03, 05:56 PM

What about age? My Anery's must be half grown already because they are eating hopper mice (10g). How long does it usually take to get to two feet?
Thanks,
Trevor

Stockwell · 10-09-03, 06:31 PM

Two feet takes 5 years or more, but they've been breeding for a couple years already..
I breed them in their third or fourth year...
I'm not very scientific about it... I go by how they look, which I guess says next to nothing...
Tell you what, I have a pair I might breed next year...let me WEIGH THEM(har har) and give you all their specs

Jeff_Favelle · 10-09-03, 07:32 PM

I am totally on the same page with you Roy. I get at least 4-6 emails per week asking me for weights and lengths and ages for breeding animals and what they should be blah blah blah. I tell them that I don't really keep track and I never have. Their responce? "Well if you don't want to tell me, just say so"! Hilarious!

I just never saw the point in weighing or measuring or etc etc my breeders, I'm glad to see you are in the same boat. I was beginning to doubt myself!! LOL!

Stockwell · 10-09-03, 08:36 PM

Yeah, Jeff!! It's only in the last few years that you can even get good quality scales for a song...
and I don't mean those questionable tripple beams thrown out by the local high school lab

So do you think we should bow to peer pressure
and start weighing stuff, to shape up, so we don't look like useless tools.....LOL
I'm not even sure what I weigh...
What do you weigh Jeff? Is that after a big meal?
One thing for sure, your hair weighs more than mine.
LOL

Jeff_Favelle · 10-10-03, 01:29 AM

LOL!

We can't buckle under the pressure man! Be STRONG!

BoidKeeper · 10-10-03, 04:42 AM

You guys are killing me! Stop being wise asses and shape up! You must weigh your snakes so you will know if they are big enough. Also then they will know if they are big enough. Also don’t forget to read the chapter in the baron’s book on breeding and explain it to your snakes if they aren't acting like the book says they should. And don't forget to feed on Monday nights at 9:37pm like clockwork.
I think you see were I'm going with this. There are those of us that are entering the hobby and developing our techniques and methods based on care sheet info and books. Some of take that info with a grain of salt some of us read and adopt it as law of the universe. For many, their herps are their first animals ever and they may be unaware of animal behaviour.
Then there are herpers like you two clowns that learned everything through trial and error and experience. You don't have to weigh a snake that you've bred before for that exact reason you've bred it before and you have so dam many of them that you can tell by looking at them. For us "new generation" herpers many of us are breeding animals that you guys have bred dozens of times for the first time. We are trying to increase our chances of success by only trying our animals when we are sure they are at their peek. One way to do that is to ask you herpers what the average, weight, length, age and moon cycle should be before we try so that we can increase our chances of success. We don't want to acquire the knowledge for ourselves we want to stand on the backs of those who have and learn from your mistakes. The Sutherlands, Boaphile and a few others keep very detailed records including weighing their animals.
Well I seem to have rambled here so I hope you can find a point in all of this somewhere.
Cheers,
Trevor

Jeff_Favelle · 10-10-03, 10:46 AM

So what are you trying to say?

Invictus · 10-10-03, 11:05 AM

I think he's trying to say, you suck, Favelle. Oh wait, that was just my inner monologue.

Allan · 10-12-03, 10:54 PM

Just a quick note to thank you all for your responses. Very much appreciated.

Allan