Sand Substrate!

Zoe · 07-31-03, 10:27 PM

Okay, I know the opinion on sand as substrate is pretty universally negative, but hear me out:

I cover the bottom of the tank in large roundish (flattish) rocks. I will the cracks with fine sand, and feed the leos out of a food dish. This would be for adult leos who would have access to a dish of calcium all the time.

What do you think? Still to risky?

Zoe

paul_le_snake · 07-31-03, 10:31 PM

i usually raise baby beardies and leos on paper until 3-4 months. after that they go on sand, never had a problem from around 1000 hatchlings
cheers
paul

Rebecca · 07-31-03, 10:43 PM

What if they for some reason eat one of the rocks??

Zoe · 07-31-03, 10:45 PM

Rebecca - the rocks would be pretty big... like 5" diameter.

Zoe

Sean_.E. · 08-01-03, 10:08 AM

Zoe, I do the same thing for my beardies. Most of the rocks are bigger than 5" in diameter though. I find that it works perfectly. It looks nice and natural, it's easy to clean and it minimizes the risk of impaction. I make sure the beardies either at out of the dish or on the surface of the rock. I reccomend larger rocks so you dont have to fill as much cracks which means less sand!

Hope this helps!
Sean

Jeff_Favelle · 08-01-03, 10:39 AM

The part that I don't understand is the Leo husbandry has been worked out 10 frickin' years ago, so why are we even trying to mess with it? You're not going to discover something new with it. Progression is pretty much all done. Why bang your head against a wall? It doesn't make sense. Its all been done for you and all you have to do is follow a recipe. Easy as pie. Why make it harder for yourself?

Sean Day · 08-01-03, 11:20 AM

In my experience if you use a good gutload and proper supplements you should not have a problem.

Alicewave · 08-01-03, 11:26 AM

Sounds fine too me. If you want to get really permanent you could try grout instead of sand but I don't see a problem with it. That's the key really, feeding out of a dish and adequate supplementation, provided the leo is an adult. Take pictures when you are done!

Sean_.E. · 08-01-03, 11:39 AM

Mr. Favelle,

I am confused by your post! Could you possibly clarify it for me? What exactly are you talking about?

I don't mean for this to offend you I am just confused by you post!

Sean

Alicewave · 08-01-03, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
The part that I don't understand is the Leo husbandry has been worked out 10 frickin' years ago, so why are we even trying to mess with it? You're not going to discover something new with it. Progression is pretty much all done. Why bang your head against a wall? It doesn't make sense. Its all been done for you and all you have to do is follow a recipe. Easy as pie. Why make it harder for yourself?

There's always going to be advances in husbandry methods. Part of the problem with impaction are the products on the market. Many of the calci-sands encourage sand ingestion and actually make the impaction risk greater for Leos of all sizes. There is nothing wrong with trying to innovate new substrate methods to maximize aesthetics while minimizing risks. Just because someone decided 10 years ago that there is one right way, doesn't mean there isn't a better way now. For years everyone thought margerine was healthy, now they find out it causes cancer. Research uncovers new thinsg. Calcisands were once thought to be safe, even beneficial. It has since (more recently than 10 years) been argued that calcisands cause more problems than they solve. You have to stay up to date on the research if you want what's best for your animals. That goes for all species. There is no recipe. Everyone does it differently. Part of what's nice about the forum is to find out what works and what doesn't. As well as to clarify myths that many products put forth.

Dragon_Slave · 08-01-03, 10:27 PM

Hey Alicewave, I remember you! I'm Angel from the GeckoExpert forums. Yeah, HI! Lol.

paul_le_snake · 08-01-03, 10:37 PM

like the old saying goes........
if it aint broke, why fix it??????????????????
cheers
paul

KelliH · 08-02-03, 05:50 AM

Zoe-

IMO the substrate/setup sounds just fine to me. Yes, they may at some point be able to ingest a little bit of sand but this is not a problem if you have healthy, properly cared for animals, trust me. Most leopard geckos I have heard about that had impaction problems were not healthy to begin with, and they were eating the sand to make up for either 1.)not being fed enough or 2.)something lacking in their diet.

spyderman · 08-02-03, 07:05 AM

It doesn't matter what you do, some-one will always have arguments for & against it. In the wild, no animal has a choice what they slither/walk on. As long as it's sterile, I see no problem with the animals natural substrate. I have rocks & sand in my Bull snakes Viv'. That works fine, But, I'm sure someone will have something to say about that.

peregrinefalcon · 08-02-03, 07:49 AM

I tried the exact same thing and my leo got impacted within 3-4 days. And Kelli I very much disagree with you, my leo was supplemented and fed very well and she still got impacted on it. Do what you want Zoe but be warned!

I prefer to keep my leo on just slate and rocks, and she is always climbing around very happy.
Good luck!
Adam