calling all beardie people…

Starbuck · 12-18-13, 11:56 AM

I just joined a group on FB for sharing photos of reptiles because there were some cool species you don't see all that often, but most of the pictures are of dragon morphs. Some of the people occasionally ask for advice etc, which i never respond to because i don't keep bearded dragons….. BUT REALLY, is it just FB or are these people insane?? Some of their advice makes no sense, and i was hoping to get some clarification from some of you guys who keep bearded dragons.

They actively recommend repticarpet etc. Is ingestion/impaction really that big of an issue with dragons?? And why? We tell people all the time with snakes that if the snake is kept properly impaction is not really a concern, and is actua;;y a symptom of poor husbandry.

They also refuse to keep bearded dragons with any kind of standing water, and instead bath them once a week etc… Why not just a very small water dish? Is humidity actually that much of a concern? Many of them comment all the time that 'oh spike just loves to drink during his bathes!'… so wouldn't this indicate that their dragon is dehydrated? Maybe they get impactions because people don't offer water, so the animal is dehydrated and gut motility suffers?

Lastly, some of them are anal about their feeding schedules; twice a day, PRECISELY at XXoclock. EXACTLY 8 crickets, and ONE chopped lettuce leaf! Is this really that critical? not even the feeding schedule, but feeding every day?

I realize not all bearded dragon owners are like this, and maybe its just a misrepresentative sample on this FB group, but honestly i feed my leopard gecko a few crickets 2x a week. Im going to feed her up well, but I'm not going to worry about her when i go away for a week over christmas… Maybe some of ya'll can shed some light on how you keep your bearded dragons, or point me towards a modern resource for the non-insane? thanks. This has been driving me nuts lately, and I'm pretty close to leaving the FB page because of all the crazies.

MizCandice · 12-18-13, 01:44 PM

I have 3 beardies and while I am not the most experienced Ill offer you a bit of what I know... I dont feel impaction is a huge issue when the animals are kept properly hydrated, though it is NOT recommended you use calci-sand on young dragons. Mine do have standing water dishes though more often then not they just run through them rather then drink from them... I cant tell you why this is, just that it is.. My older 2 dragons (2-3yo rescues) are not on any rigid schedule.. They ate insects a bit more frequently when they first arrived to try to put a bit more weight on them but they slowly displayed less appetite so I cut back on frequency to 3 times a week or so ( varied insects but primarily dusted gut loaded crickets) The baby however does require more calories to support the rapid growth hatch lings and juveniles go through in their first year. He also is far more reluctant to eat his daily diet of veggies so gets a bath more often to ensure he gets more moisture( the bulk of beardies hydration is obtained through the fruit/veggies they eat). I do not have a specific time of day I do things but there is a bit of a schedule that developed naturally... you do x when you get up.. after work you do y.. days off you do z. I also do not own a stitch of repti-carpet so I can not answer as to what makes them think its ok other then perhaps they find it easier to maintain with daily switch and washes then to sift sand/ change paper toweling ( shrugs).

Hopefully more dragon owners will chime in with their experiences, but hope my still developing knowledge helped at least a lil.... ( though I do agree their are some odd people that crawl outta the wood works on FB )

Valvaren · 12-18-13, 02:13 PM

Most owners don't keep standing water, I don't, haven't had a problem in 4 years. My dragon only goes in the bath so it makes it easier to just bath her and let her poop. I watch her urates incase I notice any discoloration but i haven't had a problem. Thil eats when she wants though even after four years of trying I cannot get her to eat veggies, and before anyone jumps on me i've tried every single trick or tip offered to me she just doesn't want them :S.

i keep mine on tile and I know lots of other keepers who recommend tile and similar (never repticarpet) When I first built Thil's enclosure I had a sand pit in there, never used it, if I put her in she'd crawl out so we removed it.

Honestly the only thing weird about her is after 4 years i've never gone through an egg cycle or anything remotely like it with her which was always my biggest fear. I'm prepared if she ever shows signs but i've never seen any. And yes i'm positive she is female unless she is male with absolutely no pores or bulges.

I gave up on dealing with the bearded dragon community a long time ago, the forums turned to obituaries, everyday hundreds of help me posts or "my dragon died of old age at 4, she had a good long life" got sick and tired of it.

smy_749 · 12-18-13, 02:51 PM

The bearded dragon facebook people are whack jobs that shouldn't be allowed to keep reptiles. That is all.

jarich · 12-18-13, 08:10 PM

Sounds mostly like a lot of people who have been told things they dont really understand, but just repeat them as gospel. Youre right, impaction is really only an issue in dehydrated or underhoused individuals. Its not just moisture, but also muscle movement, that helps move material through the gut. I, and a growing number of others, keep them on deep bioactive soil. Its actually the enclosure that I breed my isopods in for my other enclosures (they love it in there)

The standing water thing is one I find particularly silly too. Dragons live in a very large and varied environment and are quite adaptable. Sometimes its upwards of 60% rH and sometimes its as low as 20% rh. Saying that the humidity, by necessity, must be kept low is just not true. Nor is the common statement that they dont recognize standing water. I would say they are very easy to keep because they have no real humidity requirement, which is rare with reptiles.

It seems lately that there is a weird push to power feed these animals. I dont understand it as they are ambush predators that dont grow particularly quickly. They have very low metabolic requirements, even for a reptile. Of course they do require more food as babies, since this is their quickest growth time, but its hardly a need to regiment timed feeding twice a day. Twice a day is fine for babies, but its not like they will starve on once a day sometimes or even not any at all in a day sometimes. Keeping veg in the enclosure at all times gives them the option anyway. I feed mine live food once or twice a week and then offer fresh veg every morning. There are enough crickets and big headed beetles living in the enclosure though, which it can also pick off from time to time if it wants to. (Im sure your FB group would be absolutely horrified to hear I keep crickets in there permanently!)

Starbuck · 12-18-13, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

Sounds mostly like a lot of people who have been told things they don't really understand, but just repeat them as gospel.

There are enough crickets and big headed beetles living in the enclosure though, which it can also pick off from time to time if it wants to. (Im sure your FB group would be absolutely horrified to hear I keep crickets in there permanently!)

Ive had fellow vet students about die when they see me dump a dozen crix into my leo tank… they go off and hide and she gets to hunt them for a few days. They munch on other stuff and leave her alone, she like to ambush them near the water dish :P I have been thinking about getting a bearded dragon eventually (not in the next year or so), but was shocked at some of the stuff i am reading. I would like to have a more natural enclosure, and i understand why large scale breeders don't do this but was getting weirded out by the Facebook people.

@Smy, i think you hit the nail on the head….

red ink · 12-18-13, 10:11 PM

I stop going to any OS reptile site dedicated to bearded dragons years ago... for some reason people over there kept telling an aussie that his country was tiled.

jarich · 12-18-13, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red ink

I stop going to any OS reptile site dedicated to bearded dragons years ago... for some reason people over there kept telling an aussie that his country was tiled.

Hahaha, you're doing it wrong!!!

I get told the same things all the time when i tell them I have a deep soil substrate and around 50% humidity.

smy_749 · 12-19-13, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red ink

I stop going to any OS reptile site dedicated to bearded dragons years ago... for some reason people over there kept telling an aussie that his country was tiled.

Not all of it mate, Northern territory is repticarpet

MizCandice · 12-19-13, 08:33 AM

@ Jarich
" I, and a growing number of others, keep them on deep bioactive soil. Its actually the enclosure that I breed my isopods in for my other enclosures (they love it in there)"
> Please share more about the type of soil (depth type etc) Id be interested in trying it to see how my beardies like it.

Valvaren · 12-19-13, 11:49 AM

When we moved were considering trying to move everyone over to a bioactive type enclosure, I would really like to see setups like this for bearded dragons. I plan on redoing Thil's enclosure completely and would like to be able to offer this for her as well if it can be done well

Starbuck · 12-19-13, 11:58 AM

It is interesting to see some of you guys commenting about how you keep your dragons; but i was wondering if you have any info on longevity as well? It seems 9-12 is about 'old age' for a dragon (correct me if i am wrong), and clearly SOME of them make it to this age on tile, or newspaper, etc… so how do we know that the bioactive substrate etc is working for them?
Im not doubting anyone, just trying to establish some facts.

Valvaren · 12-19-13, 12:08 PM

Very true, like I said I don't keep standing water and my dragon is on tiles, she eats like a horse and i've never had any health issues with her, at four she looks a hell of a lot better then a good chunk of dragons I see people posting on groups and stuff.

You do raise a very good point though Starbuck

lisas · 12-19-13, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

Sounds mostly like a lot of people who have been told things they dont really understand, but just repeat them as gospel. Youre right, impaction is really only an issue in dehydrated or underhoused individuals. Its not just moisture, but also muscle movement, that helps move material through the gut. I, and a growing number of others, keep them on deep bioactive soil. Its actually the enclosure that I breed my isopods in for my other enclosures (they love it in there)

The standing water thing is one I find particularly silly too. Dragons live in a very large and varied environment and are quite adaptable. Sometimes its upwards of 60% rH and sometimes its as low as 20% rh. Saying that the humidity, by necessity, must be kept low is just not true. Nor is the common statement that they dont recognize standing water. I would say they are very easy to keep because they have no real humidity requirement, which is rare with reptiles.

It seems lately that there is a weird push to power feed these animals. I dont understand it as they are ambush predators that dont grow particularly quickly. They have very low metabolic requirements, even for a reptile. Of course they do require more food as babies, since this is their quickest growth time, but its hardly a need to regiment timed feeding twice a day. Twice a day is fine for babies, but its not like they will starve on once a day sometimes or even not any at all in a day sometimes. Keeping veg in the enclosure at all times gives them the option anyway. I feed mine live food once or twice a week and then offer fresh veg every morning. There are enough crickets and big headed beetles living in the enclosure though, which it can also pick off from time to time if it wants to. (Im sure your FB group would be absolutely horrified to hear I keep crickets in there permanently!)

^^^^^Only difference is that I don't feed in the enclosure (not that there's anything wrong with it)

murrindindi · 12-19-13, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red ink

I stop going to any OS reptile site dedicated to bearded dragons years ago... for some reason people over there kept telling an aussie that his country was tiled.

Hi, I`m from Melbourne and I can assure you and everyone else the whole state of Victoria IS tiled, I used to be in a team of two cleaning them once a month to prevent the population getting impacted....