snake bit other snake

pickuptruckguy · 11-01-13, 09:35 PM

Hi Everyone,

First poster, long time corn snake owner.

One of my corn snakes bit the other, and I would like advice as to what to do from this point forward.

A little background:
One male and one female, and they are 11 years old.
I keep them in the same enclosure, equivalent to 55 gallon fish tank.
I put each of them in a large tupperware for feeding.
I try to feed them every week, but sometimes they go longer...this was one of those times.

Went to take them out of the cage for feeding and the male (the larger one) struck, locked onto the females head, and wrapped her up. My wife and I managed to get them separated, but it wasn't pretty. On the surface she appears okay, but was clearly in shock after the episode. Very timid, and slow moving. She just ate a mouse, as did he, so I don't think there is any permanent damage...but I'm not a vet. Anyway, my question is should I keep them separated in the future? I've noticed they get ancy if I wait longer than a week to feed them. I'm under the assumption that this was a response to the male being too hungry, which is my fault, and not his. But I don't know if snakes become cannibalistic after such an event occurs. Any advice would help.

LadyWraith · 11-01-13, 10:00 PM

I don't know much about colubrids like corn snakes, but there are definitely cases of cannibalism with captive snakes being housed together. Generally speaking, it's best to house separately with just about all species, for this and various other reasons. IMO, using a feeding tub creates unnecessary hassle for snake and owner. Accidents like this are more prone to happen. My advice: separate the snakes, start feeding in the enclosures instead of a separate container.

pickuptruckguy · 11-01-13, 10:32 PM

Thanks for the fast reply. Some of what you suggest contradicts what I've read though. I was under the impression that feeding snakes inside the enclosure will confuse the snake into thinking it is always getting fed whenever the enclosure is being opened. Any more thoughts on this?

Stewjoe · 11-01-13, 10:43 PM

That's an old wives tale. You risk getting bitten by moving the snakes when they are hungry then again after they have eaten. If I tried that with my Carpets I would be getting nailed every time I went to move them once the scent is in the air.

LadyWraith · 11-01-13, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewjoe

That's an old wives tale. You risk getting bitten by moving the snakes when they are hungry then again after they have eaten. If I tried that with my Carpets I would be getting nailed every time I went to move them once the scent is in the air.

^^^ This. Don't know where the whole cage aggression thing came from, but it's absolutely not true. I can't imagine trying to handle either of my snakes in feed mode. The majority of keepers these days will say the same thing. Feeding in the enclosure reduces stress on the snake, circumvents bite incidents, and is just overall easier and safer.

**EL Ziggy** · 11-01-13, 11:14 PM

Hi PUTG, Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy it. I'm going to concur with Wraith's comments. I definitely think you should separate your snakes. I have 2 kingsnakes and have always heard and read of their cannibalistic tendencies. Im pretty sure thats true for most colubrids with the possible exception of garters, who I believe can live communally. I used to feed my kings in separate bins too but I soon realized it's definitely not necessary. Besides potentially stressing the animal by handling it right before feeding, I really didn't like having to put them back in their vivs when they were still in feed mode. They're both very comfortable feeding in their vivs now. I haven't had any issues with them being aggressive and no issues with substate ingestion either. Those were my main concerns about feeding in their enclosure, but they were quickly put to rest. Let us know how things go. I wish you all the best.

Donnie · 11-02-13, 02:06 AM

What sized prey are you feeding them weekly?

knox · 11-02-13, 04:52 AM

Welcome aboard!!! Here's my advice:

1. Always keep snakes in separate enclosures. Garter snakes are one of the few exceptions to this rule. Corn snakes are not.

2. I always feed in their enclosures. I have for 20 years.

3. I have never had a snake become more aggressive simply because I fed in it's enclosure.

pickuptruckguy · 11-02-13, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie

What sized prey are you feeding them weekly?

prekilled adult mice

**Aaron_S** · 11-02-13, 10:57 AM

I'll echo what others said. If they were kept separately all the time this kind of accident would be 100% avoidable.

Donnie · 11-02-13, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickuptruckguy

prekilled adult mice

Any idea how much they (snakes) weigh as weekly feeds for adult corns is quite regular?

I personally would separate them as well, the last thing you would want to happen is look in on them one day to find one has eaten the other. Cannibalism is more often found with younger corns I believe but I don't think it can be ruled out completely for adults either.

pickuptruckguy · 11-02-13, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox

Welcome aboard!!! Here's my advice:

1. Always keep snakes in separate enclosures. Garter snakes are one of the few exceptions to this rule. Corn snakes are not.

2. I always feed in their enclosures. I have for 20 years.

3. I have never had a snake become more aggressive simply because I fed in it's enclosure.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll keep them separated from now on. Just doesn't make sense to me though. Every single pet shop I know of...reptile specialty shops included, always house corn snakes together.

Just two questions:

1. Snakes don't know the difference, so how do your snakes act when you handling them during non feeding times?

2. Do breeders keep snakes separated? If so, how do the snakes act when introduced to another snake during those times?

pickuptruckguy · 11-02-13, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie

Any idea how much they (snakes) weigh as weekly feeds for adult corns is quite regular?

I personally would separate them as well, the last thing you would want to happen is look in on them one day to find one has eaten the other. Cannibalism is more often found with younger corns I believe but I don't think it can be ruled out completely for adults either.

I don't know how much. I would weigh them now but given what happened last night I think it's best to let them chill out for a while. They are both about the same length...around 4.5 feet. The male is quite a bit thicker than the female, so he often gets a second mouse. I usually get the 3 pack of frozens from petco.

Mikoh4792 · 11-02-13, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickuptruckguy

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll keep them separated from now on. Just doesn't make sense to me though. Every single pet shop I know of...reptile specialty shops included, always house corn snakes together.

There are many reasons for housing snakes together in petshops. They are temporary conditions for the snakes that will be sold in a few weeks to a few months. It doesn't mean that the risk isn't there.

Many pet shops put efficiency and profit over health of animals. Why spend money and waste space when you can cram a bunch of animals together that are going to be sold soon anyways?

Quote:

Just two questions:

1. Snakes don't know the difference, so how do your snakes act when you handling them during non feeding times?

2. Do breeders keep snakes separated? If so, how do the snakes act when introduced to another snake during those times?

1. Snakes don't know what difference? Between another snake their size and a huge primate in comparison?

2. Some breeders keep pairs together year round and some keep snakes seperated. I'm not experienced in breeding so I'll stop here.

LadyWraith · 11-02-13, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickuptruckguy

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll keep them separated from now on. Just doesn't make sense to me though. Every single pet shop I know of...reptile specialty shops included, always house corn snakes together.

Just two questions:

1. Snakes don't know the difference, so how do your snakes act when you handling them during non feeding times?

2. Do breeders keep snakes separated? If so, how do the snakes act when introduced to another snake during those times?

You have to remember that pet stores/shops are temporary homes. Generally the individual animals are not there very long. People commonly make the mistake of mimicking the pet store's husbandry without taking that into consideration. If my snakes aren't hungry, they're fairly docile and inquisitive when handling. *shrug* TBH, I really don't put too much thought into all that. I just do what I need to do, if it's around feeding time I use more caution and let them calm down first. Even if they are a little excitable because they're hungry, they calm down pretty quick when they don't smell food. I don't breed but I'm pretty sure most breeders keep them separated til it's time to party.