Coconut Husk for Substrate

[GP212]

Hi
I was planning all along on using play sand as my substrate. After reading up I have decided to go with the Coconut Husk stuff.
Anyone using this? Any concerns?

I also had a thought of using sand at one end and the husk at the other. I thought if I kept the food dishes at the husk end and the crickets I figure would also stay at this end trying to find cover.
Thoughts.

Glenn

[Pia]

I started out using sand with mine but switched about 8 months ago to coconut husk. My main reason for switching was the worry of impaction (there are some very informative posts if you ever feel like doing a search). I also believe that since bearded dragons originally came from an arid but not true desert environment, the coconut fibre which looks and feels much like soil would be a fairly natural substrate for them. Making it can be a little messy. You soak the bricks of fiber in water then wring out as much moisture as you can, then I let it dry for a couple of days. It's still a little damp when I put it in the cages, but it dries out quickly and doesn't harm the dragons at all. It's easy to scoop the poop out of and my dragons seem to like it fine.

Regarding feeding small dragons, if you find they are having trouble finding the food in a large enclosure, you can always feed them in a smaller container such as a rubbermaid (or the like) tub or smaller tank if you have one, then return them to the main enclosure. Hope this helped :-)

[GP212]

Thanks Pia.
I have read all of the arguments on sand. This is why I think that I will go with the husk. But what about sand just at the "no food" end. Just for looks.
And what name brand of husk are you using? Have you tried others?
Lastly, I have a 100 gallon tank. Any idea how much of this stuff I will need? How deep?

Thanks again
Glenn

ps; I love your little quote at the botton of you message!!!Too true!!

[tHeGiNo]

I hate the coconut husk, for dry cages that is. Being a desert terrarium, the temperatures are obviously hot and dry. When this stuff gets dry like that, it tends to get really dusty. This dust can be impacted in the nostrils, and the like. If your going to use the stuff, use the ZooMed three pack one - it will be your best value.

There is nothing wrong with using sand in enclosures, so long as certain accomedations are met. For instance, I would never recommend using sand on a dragon less then six months of age. Anything older - with proper husbandry and set-up that is (ie. proper temperatures) - should not encounter any problems.

I also believe that since bearded dragons originally came from an arid but not true desert environment, the coconut fibre which looks and feels much like soil would be a fairly natural substrate for them.

If anything, sand is closer to their native environment. They live on hard rock and dirt based substrates. If you have a small dragon, do not house it on any substrate. In fact, I would recommend raising it in a small rubbermaid, until it obtains a somewhat larger size. On newspaper, paper towl, or my new personal preference - shelf liner. I hope that helped, and if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

[Leviathan]

I find it very interesting that people think sand is bad but Coco husk is ok. I worked alongside a vet for almost 2 years. I saw one anole come in with sand impaction (yes this smartie pants kept his anole on sand in a half gallon kritter keeper) but I've seen 4 bearded dragon babies and 3 or so leopard geckos die of coco fiber compaction. Sp for me I would use niether but if I had to use one it would be sand. I reccommend the organic paper towel that save-on carries or just news paper. Or alot of people use bird seed for beardies too.

Alecia

[tHeGiNo]

What most people fail to recognize is, that a healthy lizard is immensly less prone to impaction then one kept under improper care. Temperatures are important.

[GP212]

Wow. I thought that I had finally figured out what I was going to use. Now I am back a square one. I know that I read a post somewhere on this site that stated that that person and some vets had tested sand verses coconut husk substrate and they found that the husk was fine. No compaction.
I don't know.
Can I just get opinions on what TOO use and why.
I really need more help on this!


Thanks
Glenn

[tHeGiNo]

I will tell you this: I know several successful breeders who breed and keep adults on sand. Keep him on carpet liner, paper towel, newspaper or something of the sort until 6 months of age. If you have the proper temperatures, and he is cared for properly, you will not encounter ANY problems.

I vouche for sand. It is someone similar to their natural habitat, and poses minimal problems. They do not live on fluffy dust in wild... coconut husk is FANTASTIC for humid-seeking reptiles where it is kept moist and wet, in fact it is exactly what I use for all my high-humidity animals. For dry, it just doesn't work.

[Dani33]

I personally keep my baby on shelf liner. When he is larger, I am going to use sand.

[GP212]

When yous guys say newspaper do you mean flat or torn up in strips or what?

[K1LOS]

somebody once recommended wetting the sand and pressing it down in the bottom of the cage, and then drying it out. That would be similar to their natural habitat i think. Dust wouldn' t be a problem, and it would be hard, so they wouldn't be getting any with their crickets.

i use sand, and i love how easy spot cleaning is. I got this little "pooper-scooper" thing from superpet that is meant for hamsters. It looks like what people would use for their kitty litter but smaller. It makes spot cleaning a breeze. You wouldn't be able to use that with hardened sand or coco-fibre.

I'll tell you what, i have a friend in australia right now. I will have her keep track of what the substrate is wherever she sees / catches a beardie. I'll let you all know when i get some results.

Geoff

[Big Mike]

I use the expanded coconut, and I spot clean with a kitty litter scoop. It works great.

It does get dry but it all it takes is a very light mist to keep the dust down. I like the ability that is has to get wet and dry out very easily. Every once in a while, I give it a good wet down to increase the humidity for shedding.

I don't use sand because I believe that it could cause chronic impaction. Lots of people use it with no apparent problems so the choice is up to you.

[Pia]

GP212, are you sorry you asked? lol. Lighting and substrates have to be the most confusing issues in reptile keeping. I made my decision to use coconut husk based on the possibility of chronic impaction. This is a cumulative effect of ingestion of small amounts of sand over long periods of time. Apparently, small particles of the sand can begin to stick to the inside of the digestive tract which over time (years)inhibits the absorbtion of nutrients from the food. I got this information from a member of this sight who has done many necropsies on deceased beardies. I also asked a vet for his opinion and was told that it was a legitimate point,but since coconut fibre hasn't been a used much until lately in the drier set ups he couldn't say for sure (I think that's called a non-answer :-) Anyway, that is what I based my decision on. I don't think the debate will be settled any time soon, about all you can do is find out as much as you can, which I know you have, and make an informed decision. As mentioned above, the only sure fire way to avoid impaction is to use a substrate such as newspaper (just laid flat, not shredded), paper towel or reptile carpet (watch out for frayed edges). If you do go with the coconut fibre, there are several brands available such as Bed a Beast, Eco Earth (which is what I use) and others I can't think of the names of but they all seem to be the same thing in different packages. I buy the 3 packs because they are more economical and use 2 at a time for a 5 ft by 2 ft enclosure.

[GP212]

Hey thanks so much for your input yous guys. And yes Pia I am almost sorry that I asked. Still not sure but I'll descide when the time is right. Kinda sounded spiritual almost eh.
Anyways, can't wait to hear what your Aussie friend has to say KILOS.
Hey, I just mentioned to the wife that I was going to put real skulls and stuff in the aquarium (just FYI my wife does not like this stuff and is letting us keep the tank in the living room because she thought it would "look good")
How did she react? Well she went to bed.
It's me and the three kids against her so we'll see.
I know that this is probably not allowable language for this site but she HATES SNAKES as well.
I know I know. We are workin on her though.

Thanks again
Glenn

[drewlowe]

I do want to respond to this thread but it will take me awhile because i'm at work and it's supposed to be a busy day. If i don't post back today it will deffinatly tomorrow.

Jamie