Savannah Vomitting.

desert_savage · 07-20-12, 12:18 PM

I've been fostering a friend's Savannah for a few months now and all has been well until this week. Yesterday I heard a few sneezes and a strange whine sound, and when I went to check on him I saw what I thought was an extremely watery BM. I he seemed fine otherwise so I fed him as per usual, he scarfed his meal down (ground turkey), and resumed wandering around his tank for a bit before he went in his log and went to sleep.

As on this morning I checked his tank and he's thrown up in several spots in his tank. First off obviously I need to get the mess cleaned up before he tries to consume it, and secondly I'm thinking constipation. I've looked around his tank and I don't see any evidence of a BM from his previous meal. I don't have the money to take him to the vet (I'm between jobs and actually going for an interview in about two hours), so I'm wondering what course of action if any I can take to solve this problem before it gets any further.

Regards,
Chris

MoreliAddict · 07-20-12, 01:07 PM

Pretty sure monitors eat invertebrates, not turkey. We have some monitor experts on this site so we'll see...

Here's a great caresheet:

Savannah Monitors

infernalis · 07-20-12, 01:10 PM

Ground turkey is bad, bad.. bad.

These animals need whole prey, meaning guts, bones and all. Ground meat lacks the nutrients.

Secondly we really need to know what conditions the lizard are being kept at, Temperatures of the coldest spot in the cage and the temperature of the basking spot.

Also need to know the humidity reading inside the enclosure, what are you using for an enclosure and how much dirt is in the bottom of the enclosure??

Vomiting is not a good sign, it's cause for real concern actually, because when my last sav started puking, he was dead 2 days later.

At the bottom of my post is a link to savannahmonitor.co, please read that site over and see if your conditions are anything close to the published information there.

desert_savage · 07-20-12, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Ground turkey is bad, bad.. bad.

These animals need whole prey, meaning guts, bones and all. Ground meat lacks the nutrients.

Secondly we really need to know what conditions the lizard are being kept at, Temperatures of the coldest spot in the cage and the temperature of the basking spot.

Also need to know the humidity reading inside the enclosure, what are you using for an enclosure and how much dirt is in the bottom of the enclosure??

Vomiting is not a good sign, it's cause for real concern actually, because when my last sav started puking, he was dead 2 days later.

At the bottom of my post is a link to savannahmonitor.co, please read that site over and see if your conditions are anything close to the published information there.

I already know my conditions are less than ideal, essentially his owner has him in a roughly 3'x2'x2' standard terrarium (think iguanas at the pet store), temps are unknown because she doesn't have a temp gun and my budget leaves no room for picking up extras for him, humidity is questionable, I live in Oceanside California and ambient humidity down here is usually 50-70% (down to 56% today) this summer so I assume between that and frequent misting his humidity should be around or above ambient even with lights. His substrate is that dirt and wood crap people use as garden filler and at it's deepest point it's probably 6".

The reality of it is my friend got him as a rescue, before she could really set up a proper home for him her sister(whom she shares a house with) got engaged and turned into bridezilla leaving her unable to keep Monty until after the wedding and the extraction of bridezilla. I offered a shelf for his tank to sit on while they sorted all this out and to feed him.

infernalis · 07-20-12, 03:14 PM

That is sad.. I wish I could wave a magic wand, but without proper husbandry, that lizard is doomed.

varanus_mad · 07-20-12, 04:02 PM

Seal up all the vents.

Thatll help prevent the little guy from dehydrating scrap the turkey mince or offal or out similar...

Mice, rats, fish, whatever so long as Wayne says its got its guts in and bones brains...

Of course there is a real chance its organs are already naffed and the damage is done.

if you cant get a temp gun assuming you have a digital thermometer id aim for 80f cool end 90f got end and a basking spot temp of 120 - 125f

crocdoc · 07-20-12, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_savage

The reality of it is my friend got him as a rescue.

You mean your friend got him as a cheap pet, not a rescue. A rescue is when you take an animal from poor conditions and put them into better conditions.

It sounds to me like the monitor doesn't have access to enough heat. Without a hot enough basking spot, they can't metabolise their meals properly and start regurgitating. It usually happens when the meal is something tricky to digest - for example, an adult rat. Rats have thick skin which takes a while for the stomach acids to digest if the monitor isn't hot enough, so by the time the acids get through the rat has already bloated with gas from decomposition and the monitor may regurgitate it. When a monitor starts regurgitating ground turkey, which is like pablum/baby food for monitors when it comes to digestion, you're in real trouble.

Sort out that animal's husbandry as soon as possible. Get a temperature gun or some other means to find out what the temperatures are, give it a hot basking spot, seal the vents so it has more humidity etc.

alessia55 · 07-20-12, 05:09 PM

You can get a temperature gun for as little as $15-20 on amazon.com. A good instrument that both you and your friend should want to invest in, since it could help save the monitor's life.

desert_savage · 07-20-12, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocdoc

You mean your friend got him as a cheap pet, not a rescue. A rescue is when you take an animal from poor conditions and put them into better conditions.

It sounds to me like the monitor doesn't have access to enough heat. Without a hot enough basking spot, they can't metabolise their meals properly and start regurgitating. It usually happens when the meal is something tricky to digest - for example, an adult rat. Rats have thick skin which takes a while for the stomach acids to digest if the monitor isn't hot enough, so by the time the acids get through the rat has already bloated with gas from decomposition and the monitor may regurgitate it. When a monitor starts regurgitating ground turkey, which is like pablum/baby food for monitors when it comes to digestion, you're in real trouble.

Sort out that animal's husbandry as soon as possible. Get a temperature gun or some other means to find out what the temperatures are, give it a hot basking spot, seal the vents so it has more humidity etc.

As far as I know that was her intent, she was originally talking about building something for him in the spare room.

I'll see what I can do with a temp gun, there's a Harbor Freight not too far away and I've been keeping a dense blanket on top of the mesh to keep heat and moisture in. I'm just waiting to hear back from my local herp shop to see who in my area is a decent herp vet and we'll go from there. I don't want to see Monty suffer and I really don't want to see him die due to poor conditions, but I don't have the money for huge vet bills if it's something that's going to require surgery.

infernalis · 07-20-12, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert_savage

As far as I know that was her intent, she was originally talking about building something for him in the spare room.

I'll see what I can do with a temp gun, there's a Harbor Freight not too far away and I've been keeping a dense blanket on top of the mesh to keep heat and moisture in. I'm just waiting to hear back from my local herp shop to see who in my area is a decent herp vet and we'll go from there. I don't want to see Monty suffer and I really don't want to see him die due to poor conditions, but I don't have the money for huge vet bills if it's something that's going to require surgery.

That is the wonderful thing about monitors, if you get it nice and toasty it will begin to "heal" very quickly.

I hate to say it, but 90% or more of the veterinarians out there do not know as much about Varanids as they do dogs and cats.

Even an "exotics" vet has very little training in Monitor lizards, so there is a strong chance (more like a strong likelihood) that the vet will misdiagnose or just give Baytril without any real understanding about what is wrong.

So before you fork over $100 to a vet, I would use that same money on correcting the animal's environment.

desert_savage · 07-20-12, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

That is the wonderful thing about monitors, if you get it nice and toasty it will begin to "heal" very quickly.

I hate to say it, but 90% or more of the veterinarians out there do not know as much about Varanids as they do dogs and cats.

Even an "exotics" vet has very little training in Monitor lizards, so there is a strong chance (more like a strong likelihood) that the vet will misdiagnose or just give Baytril without any real understanding about what is wrong.

So before you fork over $100 to a vet, I would use that same money on correcting the animal's environment.

Alright, in that case I'm going to snag a temp gun in the morning and some new substrate and see if I can find an affordable barometer for his tank at LLL Reptiles. Would you recommend holding off on feeding for a bit or should I just go ahead and snag some roaches/mice while I'm out and feed him tomorrow?

infernalis · 07-20-12, 10:50 PM

I would hold off on feeding for a couple days, Let his system clear out.

You can get a decent Hygrometer at Wal Mart for about $12...

You can set the probe on the basking spot and set the unit on the other end of the cage, it will tell you the basking temp (outside) and the ambient temps (inside) as well as the humidity.

Don't leave it in there with the monitor. These lizards are curious and it would probably get ruined if left in reach of the lizard..

I mounted mine up high on the enclosure wall.

desert_savage · 07-21-12, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

I would hold off on feeding for a couple days, Let his system clear out.

You can get a decent Hygrometer at Wal Mart for about $12...

You can set the probe on the basking spot and set the unit on the other end of the cage, it will tell you the basking temp (outside) and the ambient temps (inside) as well as the humidity.

Don't leave it in there with the monitor. These lizards are curious and it would probably get ruined if left in reach of the lizard..

I mounted mine up high on the enclosure wall.

Good info, thank you. He is a prime example of their curious nature, he spent a good 10min intently watching me vacuum this evening before he wandered back to his log so I definitely wouldn't dare leaving anything in his tank. That just leaves finding a new choice of substrate.

infernalis · 07-21-12, 02:43 AM

Good old fashion dirt.. best substrate ever, They dig like gophers, so they need dirt to tunnel in.

This is also an essential health issue, They thermo regulate and maintain hydration with burrows.

This hole on the surface is quite small, I set the cam on macro and shined a flashlight down the hole to get these.

The tunnels connect and I can often hear them hissing down under the surface.

desert_savage · 07-21-12, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Good old fashion dirt.. best substrate ever, They dig like gophers, so they need dirt to tunnel in.

This is also an essential health issue, They thermo regulate and maintain hydration with burrows.

This hole on the surface is quite small, I set the cam on macro and shined a flashlight down the hole to get these.

The tunnels connect and I can often hear them hissing down under the surface.

I've heard of some people doing soil+sand mixtures to make "dirt" for their enclosures, what is your dirt of choice? I can only assume when you say dirt you don't actually mean dirt from the local field (risk of chemical and parasite exposure) and sand wont hold a burrow on it's own, so I'm at a loss.