GTP wont eat..how long bf forcefeeding?

FireFoz · 04-14-04, 06:33 PM

I have a new GTP Aru locality. It ate 6 times at the breeder. Last time was march 21. I picked him up at march 27 and he hasn't eating at all since then. He doesn't show any interest in the pinky's im giving him (dead or alive) and I tried about all tips and tricks I could find on the internet.
He seems to be stressed because at the breeders place when i was chosing because him and his sisters and brothers, he was biting like crazy to anything that moved. Because of this i thought he would eat well because if he strikes at the pinky he'd probably eat it too, but since he's with me he doesnt strike at anything or even tried, he just tries to get away.

Anyway, temp and hum. are good, everything seems good (believe me, I have checked about all sites about chondro's and made sure everything (same cage he lived in at the breeder, good temps/hum etc are ok), i have no idea why it isnt eating or why it is stressed out...

So my question is, how long should i going trying to get him to eat by hisself? He did eat 6 pinky's before i got him, so he got some "reserve" though but its not much of course. What do you guys think?

BoidKeeper · 04-14-04, 07:18 PM

Forcing, especially a fragile Chondro should be your last resort. This is not a corn snake, it will take a long time to settle in and relax.
He could also be in shed too but chances are he is stressed out.
Leave him alone for at least three weeks then try what ever he ate last while he was at the breeders.
What is your set up like? What are your temps and humidity?
Cheers,
Trevor

Derrick · 04-14-04, 09:42 PM

I dont know much about anything but the first 2 things that come to mind is that you may be paying your snake a little too much attention. I think I would find it hard not to spent the day just watching such a beautiful creature. I'm thinking put it someplace won't of the way and dont bother it for a week or so and maybe cover it with a towel or something.

Also like boidkeeper mentioned check your temps and humidity. I would assume though especially with a fragile snake like a Chondro you had a stable setup running for a week or 2 before you brought it home.

You may want to get exact details on what type of routine the breeder kept and the temps, humidity and setup he ran and try to mimic them to make it feel more at home

Piers · 04-15-04, 01:41 AM

As for any new snake if your tring to feed more than every 5-7 days you might be stressing it out.
As Derrick said you should leave it aloan. Have as little contacted as posibble, only as much as needed for good health.
Piers

FireFoz · 04-15-04, 04:50 AM

temps are 28 celcius degrees during day and 24 celcius during the night. Humidity is about 60-70% during the day and about 80% during the night. I had this setup running before the chondro came so thats not really the problem.

I know I am too concerned about him. I feel like an excited dog who has to stay in his basket. This little guy is so good looking, I could look at him the entire day. But of course, I'm not doing this. The room he is in is my bedroom. I stand up in the morning at 8 am, dress myself quickly but quitly and leave. I come back in the room at about 7 pm, sit behind my computer till 11 pm and go to bed. I have no loud music or whatsoever. I have also put a black blanket in front of the windows of the terrarium so he doesn't see anything happening outside the terrarium (movements and so). Also i try to keep the vibrations to a minimum (vibrations from walking on the floor and such).

I have included a little picture of the setup he is in currently. I'll leave him alone for a full week now to see if it gets any better and then try a living pinky.

But after how many weeks should I really start to get worried? I know boa's can keep up for quite a long time without eating but chondro's seems to have a real different body structure, much thinner and less massive. He hasn't eaten for exaclty 29 days now. (4 weeks and 2 days)

These pics are taken when i just got him. His cage is flat now too (did that right after i took the pic, on the pic its a bit skewed.)

FireFoz · 04-15-04, 04:51 AM

heres another one

FireFoz · 04-15-04, 04:51 AM

Oh yeah I forgot to say he is REALLY active during the night (crawling around most of the time)

Memnoch · 04-15-04, 05:35 AM

Your temperatures are all wrong. 24°C or 75°F is quite a bit on the cool side. They should have a gradient from 80°F - 86°F (26.5°C - 30°C). IMO night time temp drops are just stressful on young GTPs.

Are you spraying your GTP? GTPs tend to drink the beads of water that collect on their bodies after a spraying. Keeping the humidity high is only secondary. High humidity just decreases how fast they dry out.

Furthermore, humidity is a function of the ambient temperature. The warmer the air the more water it can hold. That means hydrometers like the one you have (the ones that gauge humidity by evaporation) will give a higher humidity readings when the temperature is lower. With that being said, your humidty is probably too low.

I've only touched on two issues (temp and humidity) so far and they seem to be quite off. If your GTP has eaten 6 times at the breeder, that'll probably make him/her about 1-2 months old (6 feedings, 1 feeding / 5-7 days = 30-42 days). At that age they are EXTREMELY delicate. Fix your temperature problem and your humidity problem and then try feeding.

In addition to temp and humidity, tell us a little more about your setup, how are you heating the enclosure? How many perches are you using? Is there any cover (e.g. leaves etc.)?

One last thing, I'm not sure what sites you've been reading about GTP husbandry, but keeping temps that low is not something most experienced GTP keepers suggest, especially when it comes to hatchlings. If you haven't checked this site out, I would. http://www.finegtps.com/Care_sheets.html
Alternatively, if you want to make a good investment, go purchase Greg Maxwell's book, "The Complete Chondro".

FireFoz · 04-15-04, 07:12 AM

Hmm you are right about that it does indeed say minimum 75 F during the night (which is 24 C though), I could raise that to 76,5. A lot of people have been telling me 24 C is good though and that young GTPs can easily be harmed when you give them too much eat...so i was a little carefull with the heat and didnt want to overheat him.

I'm currently not spraying on the Chondro himself, because I thought that would stress him. I'll do that from now on. How often should I do that, and, should I do that during the night or day? I do have a small cup filled with water in his cage.

The chondro is in a plastic box. It is exactly the same type box as he was in at the breeder. It has 1 perch (like he had at the breeder) at approximately 4 cm below the "roof" of the box. I was thinking of planning another perch but it didnt had that at the breeder either and the box is quite small for it (about 30 cm x 20 cm). At the bottom of the box I have tissues (like toilet paper but bigger). Thats all there is in the box. Of course I have the box ventilated by perforations in it.

I placed the box in a larger cage, which I keep on tempature with a ceramic lamp located on a safe place so it doesnt give heat right at the box but near it. This lamp is connected on a thermostat which has its sensor INSIDE the box, so it measures the temp in the box and not in the cage, because that could differ.
I use a normal spot for the light during the day, from 8 am to 8 pm so he has 12 hours day 12 hours night. Should this be increased?

I'm planning on buying that book, but I live in Holland and it is quite expensive to get here, so on the next reptile expo (5th of april) I'm going to get it. I did read that site (finetgps) before though.

Anything else?

ps thanks for your help so far guys

BoidKeeper · 04-15-04, 07:15 AM

My temps are 88-90 hot spot 24/7 and my room is 82-80.
Greg Maxwell recomends spraying every morning and allowing the tank to dry over night. I also use 4 perches of different sizes. Three run the length of the tank one width.
Cheers,
Trevor

FireFoz · 04-15-04, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
My temps are 88-90 hot spot 24/7 and my room is 82-80.
Greg Maxwell recomends spraying every morning and allowing the tank to dry over night. I also use 4 perches of different sizes. Three run the length of the tank one width.
Cheers,
Trevor

Well because he is in such a small box for now, It is hard to make hotspots... the tempature is basicly the same in the entire box. Do you think I should add another perch, even though the box is actually too small for 2?

In my big cage (where he is going to be in the end) I have 4 perches as well.

BoidKeeper · 04-15-04, 07:50 AM

Quote:

the tempature is basicly the same in the entire box.

That might be your biggest problem, the snake can't thermoregulate. That will deffinately cause stress having to stay at one temp all the time.

Quote:

Do you think I should add another perch, even though the box is actually too small for 2?

I think you should move him into a 10g tank with a screen lid and a heat lamp hooked to a dimmer so you can control the temp. In a 10g you'll have lots of room for percheas, substrate that hold humidity and a basking spot.
Cheers,
Trevor

FireFoz · 04-15-04, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Memnoch
Your temperatures are all wrong. 24°C or 75°F is quite a bit on the cool side. They should have a gradient from 80°F - 86°F (26.5°C - 30°C). IMO night time temp drops are just stressful on young GTPs.

So you keep your young chondro's day and night on 26.5 - 30?
I got him at 29 during the day now and 25 at night...

I did spray him with not too cold water just a few min ago but he didnt really seem to care. I'll do that every morning from now and see how it goes with feeding in a week or so... or some longer maybe. Now he should be in a quite ok cage right?

Boidkeeper, you say you should move him to a larger cage, but I hear from a lot of people that when you move a young chondro to a larger cage he might not eat anymore because they get stressed and they are better off in a smaller box for the first months. What about that? The cage is not THAT small its like 22x30 cm and about 17 cm in height. (like 8.66 x 11.8 x 6.7 inch)

I hear so many different things...the breeder had him in exactly the same box so i would think that would not be the main problem

marisa · 04-15-04, 12:17 PM

I don't know much about GTP's but I think the problems were a couple things that you are addressing now....one being lack of heat gradient. Two being no heat at night, and three being no misting.

Now that you are correcting these issues, let him be a couple/few weeks. Let him settle in. No handling, no feeding attempts just a daily schedual of misting. After that then try feeding. That's my non-expert advice.

Marisa

FireFoz · 04-15-04, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marisa
I don't know much about GTP's but I think the problems were a couple things that you are addressing now....one being lack of heat gradient. Two being no heat at night, and three being no misting.

Now that you are correcting these issues, let him be a couple/few weeks. Let him settle in. No handling, no feeding attempts just a daily schedual of misting. After that then try feeding. That's my non-expert advice.

Marisa

I did give him heat during the night, but just 75 F which seems to be a few F too low.
I did mist too, just not AT the GTP himself but more the cage. I was focussing on the humidity in the air and didnt think about the GTP himself needing moisture on him too.... so its not like i just put the GTP in, set the day heat at 28 celcius and didnt do anything else..