Colubrid vs. Boid: The Hybrid Debate

Linds · 07-26-03, 12:42 AM

Why is it that colubrid enthusiasts are so much more accepting and supportive of hybrids than are boid enthusiasts? You look at so many colubrid species that have been hybridized, and are supported. Especially so when creating new morphs, outcrossing to different subspecies. On the other hand, the majority of boid enthusiasts wish to keep the lines pure, and are generally unsupportive of anyone attempting hybrid projects. We all know which side I am on. But this is an interesting observation I have made and just cannot seem to figure it out...

enso · 07-26-03, 12:44 AM

Big snakes, big egos, small... um, yea...

Tim and Julie B · 07-26-03, 12:52 AM

I have mostly colubrids and totally agree that all snakes should be kept pure. I don't ever intentionally mix anything. Locals should always be kept pure whether it's a king, corn or boid. Just my opinion.

Tim B.

Linds · 07-26-03, 12:54 AM

Only problem with the purity factor is that, people just getting into the hobby may think that their creamsicle corn or albino pueblan is pure due to the name, but indeed is a hybrid. They aren't all obvious hybrids

Tim and Julie B · 07-26-03, 01:03 AM

True but why knowingly do it I had this descussion with the corn snake crowd about why don't corn breeders don't keep the locals pure. Pretty soon they are just going to be a jumbled mess of het for everything. Just like leopard geckos! Who can tell the difference between subspecies after only 20+ years in captivity. But I guess it all comes down to what the breeder finds ethical and what they don't. IMO of course. TB.

Grant vg · 07-26-03, 01:08 AM

Perhaps, could it be because it is easier to hybridize most colubrids then it is in boids, therefore more widely accepted by colubrid fans?
Or perhaps its because most boids kept in the hobby are from exotic countries and therefore considered more "exotic" as well as harder to breed not to mention some that are near endangered making the purity of the species more of an issue?

Unfortunately, i think if you could hybridize boids as easily as colubrids it would be even more popular...
I for one would never do it...But i would assume there would be alot of ppl who would eventually want to breed a burm with a ball, a boa with a blood, etc...

my thoughts anyway....

marisa · 07-26-03, 01:17 AM

One being the parents are so cheap to be had. You don't have to worry about wasting a year or not selling the babies or anything like that. They are cheap! I would be more reluctant to breed my albino RT boa with another species than I would be with my snow cornsnake LOL.

I am not really missing out on much if I dont have a clutch of pure snow corns, but I would be missing out big time if I had some mutted up clutch of boas instead of pure true albino RT's. (just example using somewhat middle end snake)

Another reason is alot of people justify corn crosses with certain things as being natural intergrades so it makes them feel better about it I guess. I don't feel one way or another on the issue myself, but because I myself prefer the looks of the pure snakes I will be keeping all mine pure.

I would also think its kinda like "throw away pets" people don't get in much trouble for abusing goldfish, because they are "worthless" I am not saying hybrid people think these snakes are anything but amazing creatures, BUT corns and kings are like the goldfish of the snake world somewhat, and easy to "mess" up or breed to another species etc.

That's my guess. Like I mentioned, I personally don't care either way aside from the fact I prefer the look of pure species.

Marisa

Swampwalker · 07-26-03, 02:44 AM

I'm still trying to figure out why people keep creating all these morphs. Whats wrong with what nature created?

KrokadilyanGuy3 · 07-26-03, 03:18 AM

Its all about the money..

Jeff_Favelle · 07-26-03, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Its all about the money..

Yeah, right. People are getting rich off of making corn snake morphs. Riiiggggghhhtt....

lordkovacs · 07-26-03, 07:23 AM

I would say creating hybrids in snakes that likely will never be in danger (say, the corn) in the wild is less dangerous than creating hybrids in some larger boids who have their natural environment being torn down every day. I realize the corn's environ. too is begin developed, but not even close to the extent. Clear cutting, deveopment, and waste are destroying many habitats for these larger snakes, say, the ETB. Perhaps my argument is a little weak, but it's maybe something to think about. Oh, another thing, there are no hopes now for returning corns to their natural bloodlines, that's why no one really brings that issue up. Interesting thread Linds...
cheers,
MIKE

lordkovacs · 07-26-03, 07:27 AM

oh, forgot to mention that I agree with almost all Marisa had to say...esp. about the goldfish. I got into herping about 6 years ago, when I got my first corn. I think I got it for a couple reasons a) it was very colourful b) I was told it was a great beginner snake c) not a reason, but I was unaware that my snake was a morph...I assumed there will different breeds of snake, similar to the lowland gorilla and highland gorilla. I thought the corn was natural, just different because of hte area it lived in.
Don't get me wrong, I like colubrids too. I do have 2 of them!
cheers,
MIKE

Edwin · 07-26-03, 07:50 AM

I think it is because it is easier to do compared to boids, it produces nice colors/patterns, and there is demand for it. Also, the price and availability of corns make it more accessible, thus more people are doing it. Also, corn prices are relatively low, and interesting hybrids are a good way to differentiate and charge a little more.

Just my thoughts.

SCReptiles · 07-26-03, 09:41 AM

Quote:

I'm still trying to figure out why people keep creating all these morphs. Whats wrong with what nature created?

Nature creates hybrids all the time. I have an intergraded black and yellow rat snake that I collected from the wild in Horry County SC. Do you think Noah had 2 of every snake in the world on the ark? I don’t think so. I believe he had 1.1 constrictors and 1.1 venomous and the many species we have today derived from those 4 snakes thru many generations of adaptation (natural selection) and then hybridizing back together. Right now in the western United State the Mojave Rattle snake is crossing the the Western Diamond back on a regular basis. This is creating a new and VERY dangerous hybrid in the wild. The Mojave has a very toxic Neurotoxic venom, but by nature he injects only a small amount. This new hybrid carries the type A venom but injects massive amounts. FYI

Colonel SB · 07-26-03, 12:27 PM

~~Preservation through captive propagation~~ This is Linds signature, it says it all! I am against man made Hybrids, Looks at the B.c.i & B.c. complex how huch inbreeding and cross breeding has gone on in the last decade. Once the genetic waters are dirty they can never been clean again! No matter how much outcrossing you do!

Natural Hybrids are a different story all together, let nature take her own course she doens't need our help!