Let's Chat - Spilotes Pullatus

eminart · 12-16-16, 07:40 AM

I know at least a couple of you (Dave and Roman) have tiger rat snakes. They've been at the top of my wish list for a while now. I'm thinking this may be the year I do it.

The vast, vast majority of these snakes are imports. I do know that blackpearl recently bred a pair of mexicanus but, I spoke with him and, if they get babies, the price is going to just be too much for me to realistically consider. The Mexican subspecies is really beautiful, but I'm not sure that I don't prefer the other subspecies with more black.

Anyway, I guess I'm wondering if you guys have imports and how many issues you had related to that healthwise? My ultimate goal is to get a pair and help get more CBB babies into the US hobby. They seem like such fantastic snakes for those of us who are into the less common colubrids.

Do you guys have any recommended sources? Or people I should NOT buy from? I see imports occasionally on kingsnake and fauna. I know DM Exotics was breeding them at one point too. I'm just hoping to find reasonably healthy snakes.

SWDK · 12-16-16, 09:29 AM

I got mine as an import from Exotic Pets Vegas. It was treated for parasites 2x before I got it. I actually had to wait 2 weeks longer so it could get the 2nd treatment.

It was a healthy snake when it arrived and had a good demeanor. I did have a feeding problem where it didn't eat for the 1st 5 weeks I had it. I think it was due to parasite treatment and stress of shipping and new environment. Now it's eating frozen rats as chicks without hesitation. The only thing I've noticed is if I feed it too large of a meal it gets regurgitated in about 3 days. So now I feed 2 smaller items instead of a larger one.

Aside from the things mentioned above it's been a great snake.

**Aaron_S** · 12-16-16, 10:09 AM

For importers I don't really know so can't help there.

What I can advise on, is importation. These guys are a crapshoot of health coming in, not just from parasites. I had a friend recently import a couple and one did okay for awhile but the other had a fungus and it died pretty quick.

Sometimes they come in with wounds or skin lesions. You will need a great herp vet for that.

One thing is, I wouldn't pump it full of parasite treatment. Especially if we don't know what parasites they are. Most treatments kill off the good with the bad. If the animal seems "healthy" and strong I would just wait it out. The parasite cycle needs to be broken is all and the animal will fight off the rest.

Well hydrated, and hopefully eating and it should go be fine.

Roman · 12-16-16, 11:55 AM

Hi eminart,

I TOLD you so…

The snakes I keep (or have kept) were CB, LTC and WC. The CB and LTC were obviously no problem, but also the three wc animals I got have been not a great problem so far. I got all three of them from a French dealer who still imports a lot of his animals (there are some advantages if you still have that small patch of land in South America) and who is at all 4 expos in Hamm, so delivery is not a problem. I got a female September last year and a pair in June this year.

The first female had no worms or any other parasites you might find in a stool sample and a small mite problem was also quickly solved. The pair I got had some worms (Oxyuren), but after two treatments this problem was also solved.

Otherwise they were in really good health, no skin issues, no wounds or anything. Obviously they are quite nervous and not shy to defend themselves as soon as you come near them. As I wrote in some other threads as well, one key element to calm them down is to give them enough room, especially enough depth. My quarantine enclosure is only 60 cm (2 ft) deep, so they are more alert when you stand in front of the enclosure. My large enclosure is 90 cm (3 ft) deep, here are the same snakes much more relaxed and I can handle them with my bare hands. If I would try this with the pair still in the quarantine enclosure the result would be some nice bite marks…

I can’t comment on the quality of any American dealer as I obviously have no personal experience with any of them. I saw that several are offering Spilotes pullatus from time to time, but always wc without any information about the origin of the snakes.

I was always against getting wc animals in the first place, but since especially Spilotes pullatus and also Spilotes sulphureus are probably even rarer here in Europe as in the US I finally decided to by the first wc female last year. The advantage of getting these three snakes from the same dealer is that all three are from the same general area (French Guiana), so I hope it might be probably more likely to breed them in the future. The pair I got from a friend of mine as a loan was a wc/ltc female from Guatemala and a cb male which resembles the southern animals, probably from Brazil the most, as long as I had them there was no attempt for breeding, so maybe the two of them are not compatible…

As Dave already said, they prefer much smaller prey than any other colubrid of the same size and even if they eat a large rat in the first place they will regurgitate it most likely within 3 to 4 days.

If you prefer snakes with more black you should definitely look into snakes from. My snakes have a lot of black, especially the large male and the yellow can tend to cream / beige.

Some pictures as examples

The cb male Spilotes pullatus

The wc/ltc female Spilotes pullatus from Guatemala

The first wc female Spilotes pullatus from French Guiana

...

Roman · 12-16-16, 11:57 AM

...

The second wc female Spilotes pullatus from French Guiana

The wc male Spilotes pullatus from French Guiana

Roman

eminart · 12-16-16, 12:16 PM

Thanks for the replies, guys. Great info!

And Roman, your snakes are gorgeous as always.

I have a new job, making a little more money, and Santa might give me some cash too. So, I think I'm going to start looking to buy fairly soon. I'll have to build an enclosure, but that won't be a problem.

Dave, I think there's a male for sale now from the same dealer where you got yours. Pretty snake, but it is missing its rostral scale, which isn't a huge deal.

Hopefully I can make this happen within the next few months.

SWDK · 12-16-16, 06:06 PM

Here's pics of mine from this evening. He just shed 2 days ago so he's fresh.

eminart · 12-16-16, 08:06 PM

Beautiful, Dave! I really love the look of these snakes. Let me know if you need me to take him off your hands.

What is the longest one you guys have seen?

Roman · 12-17-16, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman

If you prefer snakes with more black you should definitely look into snakes from. My snakes have a lot of black, especially the large male and the yellow can tend to cream / beige.
...

... If you are in a hurry, you forget the most important things.

You should have a look in Spilotes from French Guiana.

I suppose the longest one I have seen are my males. I have only seen Spilotes twice in any other collection, one here in Germany and one in the Miami Zoo. Both of them haven't been as long as my males.

Both of my males are about 2.4 to 2.5 m (ca. 8 Ft). This is pretty much the same total length reported in any reliable literature available to me for male Spilotes from Central America.

I think you can assume that a large male will reach 2.5 m (8 Ft) and might grow up to 2.7 or 2.8 m (9 Ft). So the max. total length you can find in the
literature of 3 m / 10 Ft for a giant male Spilotes is not unrealistic, it just unlikely. A female might grow to 2.4 m but most will stay smaller, probably between 2.1 and 2.3 m (7 Ft). My ltc female is about 2.2 m, both of the new wc females are about 1.8 m (6 Ft).

Roman

eminart · 12-17-16, 02:56 PM

Hmmm, not sure what happened to my earlier reply…

I think we discussed the conflicting size reports when I first started looking into these snakes. Eight feet seems realistic and it's good to know you've seen some in that range.

Big colubrids are my true love. I think these snakes are exactly what I'm looking for. I just joined the Spilotes group on FB and am doing some networking.

Roman · 12-18-16, 11:41 AM

I think you are looking for this

-- > http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/993930-post22.html

in this thread --> http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/gener...tml#post993930

Roman

daisymaisy · 12-20-16, 09:34 PM

Eminart, are you going to build another enclosure like you have for Loki? Because that would be cool and I want to see build pics, haha. These are amazing snakes. Really nice ones you've got there, Roman!

eminart · 12-21-16, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisymaisy

Eminart, are you going to build another enclosure like you have for Loki?

Not exactly like Loki's, but I'll build something. It will be a more arboreal type setup. I've been thinking of designs that will allow me to disassemble it to take it up and down the stairs to my upstairs reptile room. I haven't decided if I'll do bioactive. That might be heavier than I want upstairs.

eminart · 12-26-16, 02:48 PM

So, I have SOME money, but probably not enough for a pair yet. However, there is a single male I know of for sale right now. I'm very tempted to buy him, but I think the smart thing to do is probably use some of my money to build an enclosure then try to find a pair sometime in the next few weeks/months. That way I'm thinking I would be more likely to find a sexed pair from the same locale, which I hope will help with breeding. I'm trying to be smart, but smartness isn't my strong point.

Roman · 12-26-16, 04:03 PM

Since you want a pair of Spilotes pullatus, I would wait until you find a female or a pair for offer. Here in Europe usually there are more males than females offered, so you can get a single male but females usually only as a pair. If you already have a male you would end up with two males and a female, this can work out, but it is more likely that one male would dominate the other, if you keep all of them together.

I was really lucky to get a single wc female September last year, each other Spilotes I saw in the last years were single males or females sold together with a male.

Roman