Newly acquired Milk (Louisiana or Mexican)

aaron_cg · 10-25-16, 08:00 PM

Long story short a buddy is going out of country very suddenly so I took his 2 snakes. A young retic and a really young Milk that he just got.

The milk is extremely young, I mean must of just hatched. According to my friend the "breeder" said the snake had shed once and eaten all ready. I went to feed tonight a literal just born mouse pinky (less than 2 hours old before culled) and couldn't even get a strike.

My buddy hasn't feed him yet and no word back from the "breeder".

Any tip for me here? I have had a well established California king and a speckled king, but never a young milk.

The little fellow is in a 12x12x12 JPM Reptilla enclosure, UTH Hot spot giving me a 84-86F warm side and the cool side gets to about 74F. Minimal humidity, around 40%. Nice layer of aspen with 4 hides, a bowl of water and multiple toilet paper roll tubes as well.

I don't think its a husbandry issue. I'm leaving the mouse in overnight and giving him a chance to eat, and if he doesn't ill give the mouse to my scorpion. She's a garbage disposal.

The reason I use quotes is because as soon as I heard the guys name, I knew who he was. In my area he is a notorious flipper, general moron and complete prick.

**Andy_G** · 10-25-16, 08:55 PM

When did you get it?

**Tsubaki** · 10-26-16, 03:29 AM

There's a multitude of things you could try to make the mouse more appealing after it's been established a bit more, it may just be upset from the move? Like Andy asked, how long have you had it for?

**Pareeeee** · 10-26-16, 06:51 AM

Try braining the mouse first. My Rosy Boa is barely interested in food unless I brain it. Your snake could be the same.

How long has it gone without eating? Do you remove it from its enclosure to feed it? (don't)

aaron_cg · 10-26-16, 07:55 AM

OK, in order :

It was dropped off with me last Friday morning, first fed attempt was last night. So, it's been in the enclosure for about 4.5 days before the first feed attempt.

I only feed my animals in their enclosures. At one point I had well over 30 different species, just never had a milk this young. I'll give it till Friday, then I'm going to try and brain another one.

Last night I didn't even get a strike, and I'm assuming he left it alone all night. Had to throw it away this morning.

I asked in my local BOI (board of inquiry) group and supposedly this guy is even known for getting wild caught and selling as a captive bred. So, I am going to attempt to get to the bottom of that. If it's a wild caught and I can't get it to eat Friday, I'm going to let it go in my back yard. Give it a chance to live on.

**Andy_G** · 10-26-16, 08:11 AM

Husbandry sounds fine. Although I think 4.5-5 days is barely enough time to settle in before offering food with one that young...you have the experience to make that kind of judgement call yourself though...just not something I would do. Perhaps try a couple more times and if you have some kind of proof or overbearing suspicion that it's w/c and they occur in your area your plan may be a good one to follow. It's a shame that the snake may have misrepresented in the first place.

Albert Clark · 10-26-16, 09:45 AM

Another strategy for feeding reluctant or finicky hatchling eaters is to :

1. Give the hatchling time. Make sure they have plenty of fresh water.
2. Place the animal in a very small Glad brand bowl (or equivalent) with a snap on lid and airholes punched in. Keep husbandry on point by all means.
3. Place extra small pink mouse in the bowl with the animal prefarably at night or in the dark.
4. Limit attempts to every 5 days if not taken after the first try.
5. After several unsuccessful attempts with this method there is what's known as "tease feeding".
6. Tease feeding calls for holding the animal with one hand behind the jaws and the extra small pink mouse in your other hand (or using tweezers). As you advance the pink towards the mouth of the snake ( nose first) try to get the snake to take the pink. Nose the pink mouse towards the snakes jaws in an attempt to get him to take the pink. You are just teasing the hatchling and not forcing anything. Most times they will grab the pink and start swallowing so once you see the swallowing process is advancing you can set the animal down to allow him to finish the meal.
7
. If unsuccessful, abort the attempt and allow the hatchling several days before any reattempt.
8. Its a proven method that can work and is deemed safe. Works very well with colubrid hatchlings. I just had to use this method on a newly acquired Arizona Mountain Kingsnake 3 dys ago. Good luck with your Milksnake.

**Aaron_S** · 10-26-16, 10:53 AM

Did you use a live mouse?

Bandit · 10-26-16, 01:50 PM

What state do you live in? LA Milks aren't too commonly bred in captivity, and they're hard to find. If it's an LA milk, I'd bet it's WC. I know of a few people around that will catch and sell them if given the opportunity.

aaron_cg · 10-26-16, 06:10 PM

I only feed f/t. Pinky was completely thawed then warmed up in a glass of hot water.

I am thinking I may go with the first part of Albert_Clark's suggestion this weekend. Going ahead and getting it into a smaller container now, and hopefully that will make it feel more than safe enough to take a meal on its own. I've done the assisted feedings before, and may try it this time. All though I am still leaning towards returning it to its natural environment.

As far as geographic location, I am about 20 miles Northwest of Houston in Tomball and the original seller of the animal is a bit more North in The Woodlands/Conroe area.

I'm attaching a pic, maybe someone has a better idea of actual sub-species?

Albert Clark · 10-27-16, 04:38 AM

Hey aaron_cg, certainly Aaron_S's suggestion to try live is a very good option too! The other thing with the small bowl and snap on lid is to leave the pinky in the bowl with the snake overnight. Hatchlings usually look for movement in their prey so that is another consideration for live. In my case, i did offer f/t initially bc the breeder told me that was what the animal was feeding on. She ate f/t twice for me early on after arrival to me. Then decided to begin refusing. I even tried live and that was refused. I put her into a plastic bowl and lid where she continued to refuse meals. Keep in mind this is a captive bred and born kingsnake who was described as "finicky" by the breeder. When she started looking like she was losing weight i decided to go to "tease feeding". It worked like a charm! I'm hoping she will take her next meal on her own. She has responded well to the nutrition of course and now even has become a little defensive. Good luck and i would reconsider releasing it into the wild.

**Pareeeee** · 10-27-16, 06:13 AM

I would avoid handling it until it eats. The fact that it's going into a shed could be a factor too. Even my corn snake, a pig of an eater, will often stop eating during shed.

Also, please refrain from releasing it into the wild...

Albert Clark · 10-27-16, 06:15 AM

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^ Absolutely.

**Pareeeee** · 10-27-16, 06:23 AM

Also, it's beautiful. At first I thought it was a Pueblan but I now realize it looks much more like a Mexican Milk (Lampropeltis triangulum annulata) but I'm not 100% sure on that. I'll wait for others to chime in as well.

aaron_cg · 10-27-16, 08:10 AM

Not my picture. That was the one sent to me when I asked if I can take him) My policy is to not hold my reptiles unless absolutely required. (Substrate changes, health checks, etc...)

I do not have a local source for live mice pinkies unfortunately. I also don't see any signs of going into shed.

Now, last night I did find out through a few phone calls that 90% of what this guy sells (the original seller my friend got him from) is w/c which is why people who are in this hobby usually never by anything from him. Most of his sales are via craigslist and BBS groups on Facebook. The other 10% is flipping animals that he was given for free or bought cheaply. Knowing that there is a 90% chance this is a w/c and a naturally concurring species in my area, why would you recommend not releasing into the wild?

I am 100% against releasing non naturally occurring species, or animals that have learned to depend on human interaction. Or, had I proof that this was a CB.