I am a little worried about Moe

sattva · 08-02-16, 11:19 AM

I've had Moe, my JCP, for about 8 days now... He looks very healthy and strong... He ate two days ago....

My concern is that he always hangs out on the cold side... Now he has a 48 hour old meal in him and I went to move him this morning so I could fix his cage and I was shocked on how cold he felt... I held him until he warmed up a little and then put him in a holding tub until I fixed his cage. After I fix his cage I held him some more and then put him back... I'v change the cold side to the hot side to see if he changes... The old hot side has a moisture box where he can bask on top or go inside, but he shows no interest in either... The other side has a 12" coco hide that he will lay on and crush... He has no desire to hide... Is this considered normal behavior for this species?

jossh27 · 08-02-16, 11:32 AM

My little hognose is on the cold side of his tank 99% of the time. I make sure his husbandry is to par and leave the rest to him and his instincts... But that's just me and who knows what side he's on when I'm not around or watching

**Andy_G** · 08-02-16, 11:47 AM

All you need to do is ensure that your temps are correct and that he has sufficient hides and a water dish and he will go where he needs to. They have thermoregulated for a LONG time outside of captivity without our intervention and they know what's best for themselves. Just a few things off the top of my head unique to this situation though, which will hopefully give you some of the insight, affirmation and guidance that you seek;

1. If the hot side is too hot, he WILL avoid it, and if your ambient/cool end is too cool on top of that it certainly wouldn't be ideal. I can't recall how many times I have been at different people's places/facilities and they notice a behavioural change so I suggest checking the temps with their gun and in those instances the thermostat failed and things got too hot or the heating element died and things got too cool. It's so often overlooked but integral for successful keeping. Make sure you have a temp gun and be sure to check your temps first and foremost when you notice behavioural changes in your already settled animals (doesn't apply as much here, but still make sure they're correct). A lot of snakes prefer to stay off of the hot spot unless they're digesting as that would be one of the only times that they would really bask in the wild on purpose.

2. You have only had him for 8 days. All of his surroundings have changed completely. Any big changes in his envorinment will make it harder for him to settle in and will cause unnecessary stress...with a full belly that will cause even more stress and a possible regurgitation which you certainly wouldn't want. Let him figure out his own enclosure and don't switch things around anymore. Also in my opinion, you gave him food a few days too early. Adult snakes should be left alone for a week minimum before attempting to feed..with babies 5 days to a week is what I would recommend. These timelines are essential to help the snake get used to everything.

3. You may not see "normal" behaviour for a while and it's best to leave him alone as much as possible and let him settle in and eat a few meals. Some carpet pythons don't hide very much while others are rarely seen.

Sublimeballs · 08-02-16, 12:26 PM

how do you heat and regulate temperature in your cage? and what kind of cage is it. pictures would help.

sattva · 08-02-16, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_G

All you need to do is ensure that your temps are correct and that he has sufficient hides and a water dish and he will go where he needs to. They have thermoregulated for a LONG time outside of captivity without our intervention and they know what's best for themselves. Just a few things off the top of my head unique to this situation though, which will hopefully give you some of the insight, affirmation and guidance that you seek;

1. If the hot side is too hot, he WILL avoid it, and if your ambient/cool end is too cool on top of that it certainly wouldn't be ideal. I can't recall how many times I have been at different people's places/facilities and they notice a behavioural change so I suggest checking the temps with their gun and in those instances the thermostat failed and things got too hot or the heating element died and things got too cool. It's so often overlooked but integral for successful keeping. Make sure you have a temp gun and be sure to check your temps first and foremost when you notice behavioural changes in your already settled animals (doesn't apply as much here, but still make surethey're correct). A lot of snakes prefer to stay off of the hot spot unless they're digesting as that would be one of the only times that they would really bask in the wild on purpose.

2. You have only had him for 8 days. All of his surroundings have changed completely. Any big changes in his envorinment will make it harder for him to settle in and will cause unnecessary stress...with a full belly that will cause even more stress and a possible regurgitation which you certainly wouldn't want. Let him figure out his own enclosure and don't switch things around anymore. Also in my opinion, you gave him food a few days too early. Adult snakes should be left alone for a week minimum before attempting to feed..with babies 5 days to a week is what I would recommend. These timelines are essential to help the snake get used to everything.

3. You may not see "normal" behaviour for a while and it's best to leave him alone as much as possible and let him settle in and eat a few meals. Some carpet pythons don't hide very much while others are rarely seen.

He's got a belly heating pad that heats his moisture box, "That he hasn't used yet"... And a day light that keeps that side at 90 degrees... The cool side has been around 78 degrees and that seems to be where he likes it... You would think that after a meal he would want to warm up... You are right that his whole world has been turned upside down.
When I first got him all he had was a small flower pot as a hide, right in the middle with a light over it... sitting on a bed of peat moss...
He now has his tank turned on it's side; he has a hide that doubles as a moisture box, and a hind on the right that he sits on top of... a huge water dish to soak in {that he ignores} a stick to crawl up...
I put the light on the other side a couple of hours ago now and he hasn't moved... I hit him with the temp gun and he's 89 degrees... I know I should probably be leaving him alone now, but I am into it now and I want to see if he'll move away!
Yea I probably jumped the gun a little on the meal, but I was trying to get him on the same schedule as my other two, and since the house was going to smell like food, I thought it only fair to offer him up one.... He literally came out the cage for it... shock the hell out of me...

**EL Ziggy** · 08-02-16, 01:36 PM

If your temps are dialed in he'll go exactly where he needs to. Are your heat sources controlled by a thermostat? My carpets usually go to their warm hide after a meal but they will sometimes stay on the cool side as well. My cool side is probably 80-82F and my warm side is closer to 88-90F.

sattva · 08-02-16, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sublimeballs

how do you heat and regulate temperature in your cage? and what kind of cage is it. pictures would help.

I put the light on the right to see if he will move... Not yet anyway!
20160802_122414.jpg

sattva · 08-02-16, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL Ziggy

If your temps are dialed in he'll go exactly where he needs to. Are your heat sources controlled by a thermostat? My carpets usually go to their warm hide after a meal but they will sometimes stay on the cool side as well. My cool side is probably 80-82F and my warm side is closer to 88-90F.

Both George & Moe's tanks have under the tank belly heaters on a rheostat That I turn on the lowest setting at night... It keeps a surface temperature of 90 degrees all night...
I know a thermostat is preferred or a rheostat but this is what I have at the moment...
It's been working great for George! He thermoregulates great I never know where he's going to be but he seems like he's got it down...
The thing is with Moe, is he has lived the last five years, with no way to thermoregulate... Is it possible he doesn't know how?
Fred came kind of the same way with no way to thermoregulate with his infrared light right in middle... It's on a rheostat! ... I put it off to the side; gave him two hides, and he's got it down.. goings back and forth and back and forth... but Moe! Not so much...

**Andy_G** · 08-02-16, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sattva

The thing is with Moe, is he has lived the last five years, with no way to thermoregulate... Is it possible he doesn't know how?

No, absolutely not.

I notice the half log looks a little small for him, while the hide on the opposite side looks a bit large and is nearly clear...also looks like he wants to perch. Let settle for a few meals and then consider trying to tweak those things (improving the hides and adding a perch.)

sattva · 08-02-16, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_G

No, absolutely not.

I notice the half log looks a little small for him, while the hide on the opposite side looks a bit large and is nearly clear...also looks like he wants to perch. Let settle for a few meals and then consider trying to tweak those things (improving the hides and adding a perch.)

Boy that's kind of what I was doing this morning... I had put that half a log as perch for him which he lives on; The stick and tub two days ago... and then this morning I thought I give him a hide on top of his perch. I know I'ts hard to see in the picture but he has squashed it. It's just one of thoses 12" coco liners...

sattva · 08-02-16, 05:42 PM

Well... He's still there! Body temp 95 degrees...

**EL Ziggy** · 08-02-16, 06:36 PM

Is your basking spot at 95, your hot side surface temps at 90, and your cool side at 78? That's a tad warmer than I keep my carpet's warm sides. I agree with adding the perches and some better hides. Carpets will use the height if given the opportunity. Once you get his enclosure running smoothly and let him acclimate he shoud be good to go. If you're going to use a heat lamp I'd go with a red one with a dimmer because you can leave it on 24/7 without disturbing the snake. I love the Reptile Basics hides.

Reptile Hide Boxes from Reptile Basics

sattva · 08-02-16, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL Ziggy

Is your basking spot at 95, your hot side surface temps at 90, and your cool side at 78? That's a tad warmer than I keep my carpet's warm sides. I agree with adding the perches and some better hides. Carpets will use the height if given the opportunity. Once you get his enclosure running smoothly and let him acclimate he shoud be good to go. If you're going to use a heat lamp I'd go with a red one with a dimmer because you can leave it on 24/7 without disturbing the snake. I love the Reptile Basics hides.

Reptile Hide Boxes from Reptile Basics

Ya 95 a bit much... I was hoping he'd get hot and move over... For some reason he's decided to stay put... Maybe I should make that side the hot side... I don't know...

SWDK · 08-02-16, 07:22 PM

Moe will definitely thermoregulate on his own when it's necessary to do so. It's instinct that's ingrained into snakes. As long as the temp gradient is right Moe will do the rest. I'm sure Moe moves around more than you think when you're not around or at night. Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean that it isn't happening. I'd wouldn't mess around with the enclosure setup too much at first as it could be quite stressful with continual changes.

**EL Ziggy** · 08-02-16, 08:28 PM

Now comes the hard part Satt- WAITING!

. Time to step back and let him get comfy. Stabilize your temps and outside of cage maintenance leave him alone for a week or so. Feed him again in 7-10 days and after he digests that 2nd meal you can start handling him. Once he settles into his new digs you'll have a stellar pet. Carpets are great display snakes and they're a lot of fun to watch. They're definitely more active late night. Enjoy the new critter.