cottonmouth problem- safe removal?

[Starbuck]

Hey guys,
I have a friend who trains service/search and rescue dogs on her property, and has had several run ins with venomous snakes in the past. Yesterday, one of the dogs was bit by a cottonmouth and needed emergency medical care totaling over 2000$.

She is looking for some methods to get the venomous snakes under control ideally non-lethally. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[wareagleA5]

It seems like it would be easier to snake proof her dogs by teaching them to point or just stay away from the snakes. We have water moccasins all over the place here and I would fire my vet if he charged me $2000.00 for a water moccasin bite. Duck hunting/hog hunting is also huge down here and those dogs get bit from time to time, they get treated with Benedryl, fluids, and sometimes antibiotics and sent on their way.

[Starbuck]

Antigenic is very expensive. These are not hunting dogs they are search and rescue animals trained to do a job of finding a person, and ignore environmental stimuli. I will ask about training them to point or something though.
I was hoping for some advice about how to modify the environment (removing brush piles, diverting streams....)

[MDT]

You could have them assess the habitat around their property....get rid of food and hiding spots, and the snakes should seek refuge elsewhere. That and trying to train them to avoid snakes...

[guidofatherof5]

There must be a reason the snakes are around. Either food or shelter or both. Removing those reasons will cause them to seek a better area.

[Sublimeballs]

You could catch a kingsnake or 2 and let it loose on her property. Not only would it eat the cottonmouths but it would take up the best hide spots, prey, ect... Never known anyone to do this and can't speak for how effective it would be. But it makes sense a kingsnake would push some cottonmouths out.

[Starbuck]

I thought about recommending rodenticides, but will this kill the snakes (who may eat poisoned rodents) and I was also worried about wildlife and the dogs (who may eat the rodents or the poison directly)...

[wareagleA5]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

Antigenic is very expensive. These are not hunting dogs they are search and rescue animals trained to do a job of finding a person, and ignore environmental stimuli. I will ask about training them to point or something though.
I was hoping for some advice about how to modify the environment (removing brush piles, diverting streams....)

That's me in a previous life lol, SAR dogs are almost always snake proofed, it only hurts the dog not to be. The dogs also have no problem tracking and distinguishing multiple scents, if that was the case we would need a lot more bomb and drug dogs considering all the different types out there. Snakes smell

[sharthun]

Originally Posted by Sublimeballs

You could catch a kingsnake or 2 and let it loose on her property. Not only would it eat the cottonmouths but it would take up the best hide spots, prey, ect... Never known anyone to do this and can't speak for how effective it would be. But it makes sense a kingsnake would push some cottonmouths out.

I like this idea!

[reptimama]

Originally Posted by Sublimeballs

You could catch a kingsnake or 2 and let it loose on her property. Not only would it eat the cottonmouths but it would take up the best hide spots, prey, ect... Never known anyone to do this and can't speak for how effective it would be. But it makes sense a kingsnake would push some cottonmouths out.

My first thought was kingsnakes too! That is what I would do.

[SSSSnakes]

To remove snakes, you have to remove the reason that they are there, FOOD. If you can't remove the food source then you are going to have to deal with the snakes being there.

[Starbuck]

ok, but I'm wondering if rodenticides are a viable option. Will they just kill the mice etc in the area, or is it possible the snakes will eat some of the mice as well. Does anyone know how/if warfarin and other rodenticides affect snakes? And i dont really like the idea of recommending the person put poison out in an otherwise natural area as there are lots of animals that could potentially ingest it and get sick. This is not a situation of a domestic house where rodents are eating dry goods in the home that just need to be secured better.

Thank you for the suggestions. Right now i am recommending that she clear loose brush and fallen trees and keep grasses mowed wherever possible.

[DrummingT]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

ok, but I'm wondering if rodenticides are a viable option..

Poisons are always a bad idea.

The kingsnakes are a much better idea. I would look into getting more than two though. After they move the cottonmouths out they will feed on the rodents and represent no threat to the dogs.

[StudentoReptile]

I know a lot of people recommend kingsnakes, but on a broader scale, you don't typically find kingsnakes in the same habitats as you find cottonmouths. At least I don't, and many of the field herpers I know don't either. So I question how effective this method really would work longterm: i.e. would the kingsnake stick around in a habitat that is not ideal? While technically yes, most kingsnakes in the south do include snakes in their diet, its often lizards and rodents that is their primary diet. And cottonmouths especially are not a large part of the snakes they DO eat (although again, yes they do have the ability to eat them if they themselves are large enough).
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The better alternatives is for the person to make their property as less appealing to snakes as possible: remove all unnecessary debris and places to hide (Ex: brick piles, wood piles, tall grass, junk, anything that snakes and/or their prey would hide under). If not an actual fence, build a "snake fence" along most if not all of their property: tarp 18" or so tall off the ground to where the snakes would not go through but have to slither around.

Cottonmouths in particular generally eat fish, amphibians and rodents. If there is a body of water near the person, they may have to just deal with the issue if it is not on their property.
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She may want to contact a local herp society to periodically come and remove the snakes: win-win for everyone. Herpers are always looking for new places to herp, and the snakes could be relocated elsewhere.

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I know a lot of people recommend kingsnakes, but on a broader scale, you don't typically find kingsnakes in the same habitats as you find cottonmouths. At least I don't, and many of the field herpers I know don't either. So I question how effective this method really would work longterm: i.e. would the kingsnake stick around in a habitat that is not ideal? While technically yes, most kingsnakes in the south do include snakes in their diet, its often lizards and rodents that is their primary diet. And cottonmouths especially are not a large part of the snakes they DO eat (although again, yes they do have the ability to eat them if they themselves are large enough).
-----------

The better alternatives is for the person to make their property as less appealing to snakes as possible: remove all unnecessary debris and places to hide (Ex: brick piles, wood piles, tall grass, junk, anything that snakes and/or their prey would hide under). If not an actual fence, build a "snake fence" along most if not all of their property: tarp 18" or so tall off the ground to where the snakes would not go through but have to slither around.

Cottonmouths in particular generally eat fish, amphibians and rodents. If there is a body of water near the person, they may have to just deal with the issue if it is not on their property.
----
She may want to contact a local herp society to periodically come and remove the snakes: win-win for everyone. Herpers are always looking for new places to herp, and the snakes could be relocated elsewhere.

Thank you for this very helpful advice. I hadn't thought about a snake fence, but i think that may be very effective for the areas they are working in; dogs and humans could still cross it but snakes would be kept out (for the most part) of the areas of high traffic i.e. kennels etc. Im pretty sure she has contacted a few snake rescues, but the larger ones who are equipped to deal with venomous snakes tend to be further away.


speaking of venomous snakes, one of my friends at the vet school found a coral snake in one of the horse barns yesterday, talk about a close call! the coral snake was very lucky it was found by a herper and not someone else, because he was able to safely move it outside and no-one was hurt.