sexing: palpating

ErikBush97 · 09-04-13, 03:25 AM

Hi. I know how to Palpate BCI's accurately, and I was wondering if I'm looking for the same thing in all snakes while palpating? I.E could I accurately sex a Ball Python or a Rat snake (for example), after learning how to palpate a BCI?

Will0W783 · 09-04-13, 01:29 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "palpate." The only fairly accurate means of sexing snakes is with a sexing probe that I know of. Very young snakes (neonates up to several months after birth) can be "popped." This is done by rolling the thumb and forefingers to create pressure on the cloacal areas that causes the hemipenes to pop out in a male. It's not as accurate as probing though, because once the snake has developed muscular control it can still hold in the hemipenes, resulting in males being mistaken as female.
Even probing is not 100%...there is some variability in both sexes and between species. You select an appropriately sized probe, lube it with some KY or Vaseline, and gently insert it into one side of the cloaca, down towards the tail. In males, the probe will go inside the inverted hemipenis; in females it is stopped by the scent glands. You mark how far down the probe has gone and then measure the number of subcaudal scales it passed. Males of most species are 8+, while females are >/= 5.

ErikBush97 · 09-04-13, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will0W783

I'm not sure what you mean by "palpate." The only fairly accurate means of sexing snakes is with a sexing probe that I know of. Very young snakes (neonates up to several months after birth) can be "popped." This is done by rolling the thumb and forefingers to create pressure on the cloacal areas that causes the hemipenes to pop out in a male. It's not as accurate as probing though, because once the snake has developed muscular control it can still hold in the hemipenes, resulting in males being mistaken as female.
Even probing is not 100%...there is some variability in both sexes and between species. You select an appropriately sized probe, lube it with some KY or Vaseline, and gently insert it into one side of the cloaca, down towards the tail. In males, the probe will go inside the inverted hemipenis; in females it is stopped by the scent glands. You mark how far down the probe has gone and then measure the number of subcaudal scales it passed. Males of most species are 8+, while females are >/= 5.

I know what popping and probing is. Palpating is when you run your thumb and index finger down the tail, behind the vent, applying pressure. (Males have speed bumb type things = hemipenes, and females do not). It's very very accurate when done right, and when you are able to practice with known males and known females.

ErikBush97 · 09-04-13, 01:40 PM

It's a lot less evasive as well, and less likely to injure your snake compared to popping or probing.

**Aaron_S** · 09-04-13, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikBush97

It's very very accurate when done right, and when you are able to practice with known males and known females.

So it's very accurate when the sex is already known? Huh. How about that.

Starbuck · 09-04-13, 02:52 PM

why is this the first the first i've read about external palpation of snakes for sex determination? Is something that works predominately for boas/pythons (maybe why ive never heard of it?)?

Every one of my reptile texts only mentions probing (extremely safe when done by a trained professional) or popping (more potential for harm, but the accepted rule for most hobbyists and breeders). Where did you find out about palpating?
(im asking seriously, not trying to get on your case)

LadyWraith · 09-04-13, 03:02 PM

Never heard of anyone mention this method except to feel for eggs. A search offered a few hits similar to the description, one site was pretty verbatim the description so I'm sure that's where the info came from. That method does not seem very accurate to me. There's more than just hemipenises or none in the cloaca area. One could easily mistaken urates for the described "bumps". I would stick with what Willow said about probing an such.

MDT · 09-04-13, 03:14 PM

Dude...you can't get a group of physicians to palpate a human abdomen and agree on specific liver size (much larger than a hemipene)...good luck brother.

If you sell an animal as male or female based on palpation and are wrong, i have a feeling the buyer would be a tad miffed, to put it nicely.

ErikBush97 · 09-04-13, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

So it's very accurate when the sex is already known? Huh. How about that.

Lol.. I said to practice with known sexes so you know what to look for.

Terranaut · 09-04-13, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikBush97

Lol.. I said to practice with known sexes so you know what to look for.

Sorry pal but your method is not accurate. Try it on unfamiliar snakes and see.

MDT · 09-04-13, 08:16 PM

He'll be correct 50% of the time.

ErikBush97 · 09-04-13, 09:23 PM

So far I've be spot on. I messed up like one of 5-fish. That's not 50%.

MDT · 09-04-13, 09:43 PM

My young Padawan.....much to learn, you have.

DeadlyDesires · 09-04-13, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

My young Padawan.....much to learn, you have.

lol ... so... i think my "she" boa is a "he" lol.. need to get her probed... i seem to have forgotten the right word for them. but right by her anal those pointy things (lol) they are fairly large and i thought they were small in females :-/ will take her to get probed when i find someone who can do it here.

ErikBush97 · 09-04-13, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadlyDesires

lol ... so... i think my "she" boa is a "he" lol.. need to get her probed... i seem to have forgotten the right word for them. but right by her anal those pointy things (lol) they are fairly large and i thought they were small in females :-/ will take her to get probed when i find someone who can do it here.

Where ya live? Pet stores & Vets = best places to start.