Ringo and his habits

[SkyesRingo]

Hi all! I've had Ringo now for a little over 2 weeks, and I'm curious to know if some of his behaviors are normal.

First off, he rattles his tail? There are times when we're holding him that he'll just start rattling his tail and it just makes us wonder what he's doing.

Second, I've seen him scratch himself on his rock hide a couple of times, so do snakes get itchy?

Another thing I've noticed, he'll try to fly off my hand O_o by this I mean he suddenly straightens his body and moves super fast in one direction, when all I've done is simply let him go on my arms and hands, fingers spread, and not touched him (I let him decide if he wants to go to a new area or not first, if that makes sense)

Ringo ALSO seems to sleep almost 24/7! There have only been about 4 times I've witnessed him moving about his cage or in his tree.

So if anyone knows what he's doing, I'd definitely like to know and why!
Thanks :)

P.S. I recently watched him drink water and it was adorable!

[Concept9]

Good morning.

First of all, snakes do not like to be held. With time and frequent handling such as every other day for about 15 minutes they will become accustom to being held. Stick with it, hold him confidently and support it well and it will get secure with you in time.

The rattling of the tail is normal, it’s his way of saying piss off and leave me alone. When handling a snake, if it ever wiggles its tail, hisses or bites, never put it down right away, if you do it will learn that doing this will set it free and continue doing so.

As far as the scratching goes, I wouldn’t worries about it, it could be he is starting to shed. My snakes touch everything with their nose, it’s normal.

Most snakes are nocturnal and only come out at night or the afternoon but corns are pretty active in the day time. Mine come out from late afternoon to early evening.
I’m not sure what your setup is like, but having sticks, rocks and bushes for them to hide behind while they are out may help a LITTLE. Also have the walls covered may help a bit too, to make them feel more secure while they are out.

[Aaron_S]

Does he eat?

He rattles his tail as a defense. He's trying to mimic that he's a rattlesnake and to scare off predators. If he was in the wild it would be in the leaf litter on the ground and it makes a loud enough sound to possibly scare some off.

He's nervous when he does that "super fast" move. Possibly startled by something. If he's rattling his tail and doing this, then you're handling him WAAAYYY too much.

He shouldn't be sleeping 24/7. Corn snakes are really active throughout the day. You should post pics.

[SkyesRingo]

He eats pinkies right now since he's still a baby. But yes he eats.

The defense would make sense since my boyfriend tends to put his fingers right in Ringo's face when I hold him -_- otherwise when I'm alone and holding him, he keeps calm and only rattles maybe once or twice when I've gotten him out and taken him to the front room to interact with him while I enjoy TV (I keep a close eye on him at all times)

I hold Ringo every day for around 20 minutes or until he starts getting super jumpy (except the 2 days after feeding) and I don't freak out when he does those strikes or rattles, but I just gently let him go to my lap or chest to calm down.

I'm up during the evening and night, but like I said I rarely see him move. I have 5 hides and a large fake tree set up all around his enclosure, with around 2 inches of aspen flooring and a large water dish in a corner.

I haven't seen Ringo start to go in blue yet, so maybe it's just him being curious?

I'll put some pictures of his tank and him up in a bit.

[lady_bug87]

20 minutes a day may be a bit much for a baby. Corms are diurnal meaning they are active during the day. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean its sleeping.

He obviously doesn't feel comfortable yet give him time to acclimate to his surroundings and you'll probably see him more.

Oh, and tell your boyfriend to stop being annoying.

[Concept9]

Pictures and info on your setup would be helpful.
You have only have the snake 2 weeks, I would probably limit my handling to a couple time a week. Let him get accustom to his new home and feel secure.
Other than your boyfriend sticking his fingers in the snakes face (Don’t do this), it sound like you are doing ok.

[SkyesRingo]

I've actually told him to not do that, but he thinks he knows everything about snakes since his brother owned one quite awhile back.

I figure Ringo actually enjoys being out of the cage, because he's extremely active and curious about everything when I take him out. Maybe not, but I'm trying my best as a newbie snake owner :o

https://fbcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/s720x720/984058_253419048132304_681061064_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/383426_253419141465628_142643782_n.jpg

These first two are of Ringo himself. He's approximately 19 inches long.

https://photos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/181247_253419278132281_367653868_n.jpg

This is the tank. It's 30x12x12" and like I said it has 2" of aspen bedding.
There are 5 hides, two from the egg carton and rock, two toilet paper rolls, and one large den (it has areas where he can fit snugly and not stress out over so much room in the den)
There is also the fake tree and the large water bowls in the corners.

I'm still working on figuring out how to make some nice hides for him.

[lady_bug87]

Ringo probably hates being out but don't feel bad they all do for the most part.

Your boyfriend knows nothing. His brother probably doesn't either.

[Aaron_S]

He eats pinkies right now since he's still a baby. But yes he eats.

The defense would make sense since my boyfriend tends to put his fingers right in Ringo's face when I hold him -_- otherwise when I'm alone and holding him, he keeps calm and only rattles maybe once or twice when I've gotten him out and taken him to the front room to interact with him while I enjoy TV (I keep a close eye on him at all times)

I hold Ringo every day for around 20 minutes or until he starts getting super jumpy (except the 2 days after feeding) and I don't freak out when he does those strikes or rattles, but I just gently let him go to my lap or chest to calm down.

I'm up during the evening and night, but like I said I rarely see him move. I have 5 hides and a large fake tree set up all around his enclosure, with around 2 inches of aspen flooring and a large water dish in a corner.

I haven't seen Ringo start to go in blue yet, so maybe it's just him being curious?

I'll put some pictures of his tank and him up in a bit.


Corns are diurnal snakes. Which means that at night you really shouldn't see him doing much of anything.

As lady_bug said your boyfriend knows poop all. His brother too.

Your snake doesn't enjoy anything. He's "curious" because he's trying to find his suitable habitat again, get away from potential predators, maybe find water or food. Doesn't have the capability to enjoy.

[SkyesRingo]

I'm probably about to bring up a huge controversy... but how do we know snakes don't have emotions?
=_=
There are animals who stay with a single partner their whole life which suggests emotions... and I'm betting snakes could probably feel SOMETHING. I mean, curiosity COULD be considered an emotion... just saying Cx

As for my bf, he's doing his best, just as much as I am. He's just more mechanics than living things hahaha

Back to Ringo feeling enjoyment, wouldn't you be happy if you had more room to roam around without having to worry? Just a thought. (Please no hating on me x.x I'm just trying to figure things out)

[Aaron_S]

I'm probably about to bring up a huge controversy... but how do we know snakes don't have emotions?
=_=
There are animals who stay with a single partner their whole life which suggests emotions... and I'm betting snakes could probably feel SOMETHING. I mean, curiosity COULD be considered an emotion... just saying Cx

As for my bf, he's doing his best, just as much as I am. He's just more mechanics than living things hahaha

Back to Ringo feeling enjoyment, wouldn't you be happy if you had more room to roam around without having to worry? Just a thought. (Please no hating on me x.x I'm just trying to figure things out)

First off, how do we know? Science tells us. That's how.

Curiosity can only be construed as emotion if you anthropomorphize.

Lastly, how about we drop you in the African savannah. You can have miles upon miles of open land to roam free. Just you and clothing on your back to handle the temperatures, food and water. Not to mention shelter and oh yeah, defending yourself from predators. I don't think you'd feel so comfortable.

[Concept9]

Now . . . This thread may get BIG. LOL.

This has always been a BIG controversy.

I found this a few weeks ago and IMO is the best answer I have seen.

"It is unfair to say that snakes are dumb (though they ain't exactly Edison, they ain't exactly Dan Quayle, either). Although it is true to say that snakes act mainly through "instinct", snakes are very perceptive of their enviroment. For instance, a lot of snakekeepers say when they go to their rattlesnakes, the snakes act calm and normal. But when other people try to approach them, they rattle vigoriously and take defensive poses. Although it's nice to think that snakes have emotions (like joy, anger, and affection), scientific studies show that snakes just don't have the cerebral capacity for them. However, snakes do have "primitive" feelings like aggression, fear, and pleasure. Snakes are able to learn simple things such as tolerating handling, eating an unnatural food item, and of course, adapting to captivity. But to teach a snake to learn things like to "fetch" (like a dog can), or "sit-stay" (I saw a 11 year old telling his rosy boa to stay and be a good little snake) is not relevant to snakes".

[SkyesRingo]

@ MBK BOY Ohhhhh that makes a lot of sense. Their primitive instinct of pleasure or safety could easily be misunderstood for love or emotions. Thank you for answering with that quote, it makes my perspective on snakes and why they do things take on a whole new light. (It also felt like genuine help instead of shooting down a stupid question)
It also seems a little silly to try and train a snake to do tricks! :)
I suppose teaching them that keeping calm during handling gets them a good meal is kind of a trick though? Hahaha

@Aaron S I'm just trying to think logically and I'm a newcomer so please don't be so aggressive? I felt a little shot down by your response... I know I may seem naive and that question might seem stupid to you, but I'm still learning.

^However, if I took your tone in the text wrong, I apologize for my response. I AM still learning about snakes and I'm new to the entire snake world.

[SkyesRingo]

@Aaron S
I said having room to roam without having to worry, as in not having to worry about when your next meal will be, where you'll get water from, and not having to be cautious about predators.

[Aaron_S]

Now . . . This thread may get BIG. LOL.

This has always been a BIG controversy.

I found this a few weeks ago and IMO is the best answer I have seen.

"It is unfair to say that snakes are dumb (though they ain't exactly Edison, they ain't exactly Dan Quayle, either). Although it is true to say that snakes act mainly through "instinct", snakes are very perceptive of their enviroment. For instance, a lot of snakekeepers say when they go to their rattlesnakes, the snakes act calm and normal. But when other people try to approach them, they rattle vigoriously and take defensive poses. Although it's nice to think that snakes have emotions (like joy, anger, and affection), scientific studies show that snakes just don't have the cerebral capacity for them. However, snakes do have "primitive" feelings like aggression, fear, and pleasure. Snakes are able to learn simple things such as tolerating handling, eating an unnatural food item, and of course, adapting to captivity. But to teach a snake to learn things like to "fetch" (like a dog can), or "sit-stay" (I saw a 11 year old telling his rosy boa to stay and be a good little snake) is not relevant to snakes".


I think it's got a few points wrong. I've never seen a snake know pleasure or even aggression. I would also argue that pleasure isn't a primal feeling as suggested.

Aggression would indicate that they have malice in their actions when in reality it's defense more often than not. They presume we are a predator and solely protect themselves.

[Aaron_S]

@Aaron S
I said having room to roam without having to worry, as in not having to worry about when your next meal will be, where you'll get water from, and not having to be cautious about predators.

Yet, you're assuming that your snake has the capacity to turn all of it's evolution and KNOW it'll always have those things even though it's placed in an a less than ideal environment with no familiar smells.

My analogy still stands. Just because you think it doesn't feel that way doesn't make it so. In actuality your snake is NOT roaming without worry or any of those things by your description of it's behaviour. In essence, you're being a bad snake keeper at this point.

[Aaron_S]

@Aaron S I'm just trying to think logically and I'm a newcomer so please don't be so aggressive? I felt a little shot down by your response... I know I may seem naive and that question might seem stupid to you, but I'm still learning.

^However, if I took your tone in the text wrong, I apologize for my response. I AM still learning about snakes and I'm new to the entire snake world.

Thinking logically would indicate that you take what you know about other animals such as dogs and cats and throw it out the window when it comes to reptiles.

Cannot presume they act or react the same as those animals.

[lady_bug87]

Ringo will likely learn to consider you as part of his 'safe' territory meaning he will be OK with you touching him. And you have it right, people often confuse safety and tolerance with love and tame affection.

Keep handling him just maybe less often and for less time and as he gets used to not being grabbed every time he's out from hiding you'll see him more.

Oh and don't mind Aaron. He's like the old grump that yells at kids to get off his lawn.

[SkyesRingo]

Thanks lady bug (:

And Aaron I'm not being a bad snake keeper! My feelings don't effect how well I take care of him. He has an excellent vivarium, he eats on a regular basis and I keep his temperatures and humidity levels at great numbers. It was a simple little thought when I said being able to roam with No worries would be nice.
When I handle him, he is kept with me or near me at all times. So just because I have an opinion on things you don't agree with does NOT make me a bad handler.
No thinking logically means I put myself in the snake's position and try to think of what would be best and what would be worst. I'm not perfect so some thoughts may be flawed. However you have No right to chastise me on my opinions.
Just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean they will act on it. Ergo, I don't let him wander.
I feel like you're being very rude and a bully.

Once again, if I'm wrong I apologize but the tone I feel you write in is very threatening.

[smy_749]

I think Aaron is just pointing out the fact that , thinking logically from a snakes point of view, doesnt make any sense. We dont know if snakes use logic, enjoy, dislike, etc. etc.

You cant put yourself in the snakes position , its apples and oranges.
I wont say what is right or wrong because science is always changing as we advance further in knowledge, however based on what we know atm, Aarons opinion is more accurate.

Again, things change and questioning is how we learn new things, but putting yourself in his position is not realistic.

I don't believe snakes enjoy our company, but I dont believe explanations are as simple as we think. Keep an open mind in science, but make sure its a logical sound open mind

[Aaron_S]

Thanks lady bug (:

And Aaron I'm not being a bad snake keeper! My feelings don't effect how well I take care of him. He has an excellent vivarium, he eats on a regular basis and I keep his temperatures and humidity levels at great numbers. It was a simple little thought when I said being able to roam with No worries would be nice.
When I handle him, he is kept with me or near me at all times. So just because I have an opinion on things you don't agree with does NOT make me a bad handler.
No thinking logically means I put myself in the snake's position and try to think of what would be best and what would be worst. I'm not perfect so some thoughts may be flawed. However you have No right to chastise me on my opinions.
Just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean they will act on it. Ergo, I don't let him wander.
I feel like you're being very rude and a bully.

Once again, if I'm wrong I apologize but the tone I feel you write in is very threatening.

Yet, you continue to miss my point.

[Evolieno]

Yikes! This thread brought up a lot of thinking. I apologize in advance, SkyesRingo! There is no tangible scientific proof proving whether snakes can bond, feel emotion, etc. As Smy_749 stated, "we don't know if snakes use logic, dislike, enjoy, etc". We don't know if they think/feel, use logic, etc. We also don't know if they DO. I think there's a difference between wild-caught and captive bred, my big CCP gal knew when I came into her room. And she always tried to get out when I did, it got to the point where I would simply open her cage and let her go where she pleased. Where did she ALWAYS go? She made her way onto me. She'd wrap her tail around my leg, and be curious for about 20 mins. She always ended up just resting her body on mine. Sometimes, when I sat down, she'd just hang out in my lap. I handled her daily. Her feedings were every 2 weeks. There was nothing in her enclosure to make her want to leave. Adequate heat, humidity, roaming space, hides, etc. I believe she knew my scent. Even when others handled her, she would always find her way back to me. Aaron, You can't be so aggressive about something that you have no tangible proof of. Or scientific proof... That simply makes it your opinion.

[Aaron_S]

... Aaron, You can't be so aggressive about something that you have no tangible proof of. Or scientific proof... That simply makes it your opinion.

I guess I'll have to find my research and links again....

How about you do the same and prove me wrong.

[lady_bug87]

How about you all just take a pill?

[Aaron_S]

How about you all just take a pill?

Are you leaving trails of them again? I'll take those...