Burn on belly?

[toripyth]

While holding my brazilian rainbow today I noticed a couple darkened spots on his underbelly that almost looked.. charred. Upon further inspection it looked as if part of the scales had actually chipped away. Can anyone tell me what this is from?
He does have a heating mat located underneath his hide box. I use reptibark as a substrate and have a lot of natural wood in his terrarium. Also, I have a fogger that runs all night long and leave it off during the day to help prevent mold growth. I'm not sure if any of this info would help but I included it just incase.
Thanks!

For some reason when I try to include the URL for the pictures I get a message saying 'post denied'? I'm not sure how I'll be able to add pictures.

[Starbuck]

without pictures, all anyone can do at this point is guess. You should be able to post pictures after 5 posts on this forum.
How do you measure your temperatures, and with what?

[rmfsnakes32]

Do you use a thermostat to control temps

[toripyth]

I have a thermostat on either side of his terrarium near the bottom. Temps range from around 65 at night to 80 during the day. I realize that is a bit low but whenever I raise the temp any higher he hangs out only on the cool end of his tank. I'm not sure what type of thermostats they are? Theyre long black strips that have colored bars appear on.

[Nataku]

After five posts you can post pics (so find some threads to spam up?).

The UTH, does it cover the entire bottom of the tank, or only part? I ask because if it is getting too warm in there and the UTH covers the entire bottom of the tank, the snake may have no where to go to get away from the heat.

Also, if the UTH doesn't cover the entire tank, is there a second hide available on the side of the tank that is cooler? Some snakes are so shy they'll stay in their hide box even when the temp is not where it should be, so providing another hide on the cool side might also help.

[bcr229]

The UTH shouldn't cover the whole tank as BRB's need to stay under 85*F.

My BRB rarely uses his hot side hide, he much prefers the one on the cool side.

[toripyth]

I have a thermostat on either side of his tank near the bottom. Temps usually range from 65-80. His UTH is a small one that only covers the area underneath his hide box. He is not very shy and isn't hesitant to sleep in other places besides his hide box. He does only have one actual hide box but on his cool spot there is an assortment of wood that he likes to sleep under if he feels too warm.
I'll go comment on a few other threads and then post some pictures.

[toripyth]

I have posted 5 times and still get the following message when I'm only trying to upload a single picture:
Post denied. New posts are limited by number of URLs it may contain and checked if it doesn't contain forbidden words.

[toripyth]

Here is a link to my photobucket. You can find the pictures on there.
lykasong's Library | Photobucket (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/lykasong/library/?sort=3&page=1)

[toripyth]

Also, the pinkness on his belly is completely normal for him right before a shed. I've noticed that, compared to my other snake, his belly gets significantly more pink around shedding time.

[Mikoh4792]

I did a google search and that looks to be a mild form of scale rot. If it was a burn from the heat mat it would cover a larger area, probably with some inflammation and peeling.

If im not mistaken, your humidity cycles should be reversed. High humidity in the day, with a drop at night.

[toripyth]

Thank you very much. Should I take him to the vet to get it checked out further?
Is there anything else I can do to help get rid of the scale rot/help it heal?
Also, what can I do to prevent this from happening again besides switching the humidity cycle?

[Mikoh4792]

Thank you very much. Should I take him to the vet to get it checked out further?
Is there anything else I can do to help get rid of the scale rot/help it heal?
Also, what can I do to prevent this from happening again besides switching the humidity cycle?

Is your substrate wet? Humidity is about how much water is in the air, not in the substrate. I can imagine leaving your fogger on the whole day or night would be the cause of this. I don't have any experience with scale rot so I can't even diagnose your snake's problem to be scale rot in the first place. That's just my guess. If another member can confirm that it is scale rot, I would just clean the cage, put in new substrate, and keep it damp, not wet. I have read on a few other places about this " betadine 10% solution bath 2x daily" treatment for scale rot. Since I have no experience with it, I don't know whether or not it spreads. If not, I would guess that after a few sheds his/her scales would come back to normal.

[toripyth]

His substrate does absorb some moisture since its bark but I've been using the same substrate with him for 5+ years and have never had an issue with it...

[Lankyrob]

You have THERMOMETERS each side of the tank that measure the heat, do you have a THERMOSTAT that controls your heat source and stops it getting too hot or too cold in the viv?

[toripyth]

OOPS! Thanks for clarifying that haha...
No I do not! Is that something I should look into?

[Mikoh4792]

OOPS! Thanks for clarifying that haha...
No I do not! Is that something I should look into?

Definately. It controls how hot your source of heat gets. Using heat mats without a thermometer can result in either the heat source getting too hot, or the basking area and ambient temperature inside the enclosure getting too hot.

With a thermostat, you just set the temp you want(for example 90 degrees F). There is a probe that looks like this
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/1/2/1/2/8/hpim0446.jpg

that you put on a desired location(Basking spot). Or if you are using a rack system many people put the probe directly on the heat tape. For my burrowing snakes I put the probe inside the cage, directly on the glass above the heat mat and then supplement with a low wattage heat lamp(25 to 40 watts depending on weather) to warm up the ambient air temperature.


There are two different types of thermostats, there are on/off thermostats and proportional thermostats... basically they have the same purpose. To make sure that the temperature on the probe stays at the temperature that you set it for. If you really care about the difference they work like this:

Off/On thermostats - Let's say you set the temperature on the thermostat to 90F. Once the the probe gets to 90F, the thermostat "turns off"(Not really, it just blocks power to the heat supply). Once the probe drops a few degrees, the thermostat lets power go through to the heat supply again. Everytime it goes off and on you will hear a click on most on/off thermostats.

Proportional - These work a little different in that they control how much voltage gets sent to the heat supply. So let's say you set the temp to 90F. The heat mat may run at full voltage until it gets a little warmer than 90f. When it reaches above 90f, it lowers the voltage sent to the heat supply to have it drop back down to 90F.

In my opinion, I think proportional is the way to go. Especially if you sleep in the room with your animals because the on/off switch can get annoying. Also there are more fluctuations in temp. with the on/off thermostats while with proportional the temps are more steady.

[toripyth]

Thanks so much for the info, I'll look into getting one next time I'm at a pet store. :)

[Mikoh4792]

Thanks so much for the info, I'll look into getting one next time I'm at a pet store. :)

I won't say you HAVE to get an expensive one but the good ones are usually priced a little higher. Herpstat, Helix, Vivarium Electronics, Ranco...etc.

Herpstat - Spyder Robotics (http://spyderrobotics.com/)
Helix - Helix Controls (http://helixcontrols.com/)
VE - Vivarium Electronics (http://www.vivariumelectronics.com/)

You could also find these and the other ones on amazon.com

In pet stores you will mostly find ones that are cheap on/off thermostats and in my experience with those, they don't provide consistent temperatures.

[Herpophiliac972]

Does he burrow? If he burrows, he might get right up near the heater. That would definitely not be good. I would recommend putting the heat pad on the side of the cage, as animals usually burrow when it is too warm. When it burrows toward a heat mat, that defeats the whole purpose.

[Mikoh4792]

Does he burrow? If he burrows, he might get right up near the heater. That would definitely not be good. I would recommend putting the heat pad on the side of the cage, as animals usually burrow when it is too warm. When it burrows toward a heat mat, that defeats the whole purpose.

how about people keeping snakes on belly heat in rack systems? Corn snakes, king snakes and milk snakes all burrow and people still use belly heat. If they need to burrow to get away form the heat they can burrow on the cold side no?

[toripyth]

He hasn't burrowed for a few years now so I don't think that'll be a problem. Thank you though! I'm pretty sure that what was on his scales wasn't a burn, anyways. Like someone said earlier it was probably a mild form of scale rot. I cleaned his terrarium and turned his fogger down(it was on a pretty high setting before). He shed a few days ago and his underbelly looks fine now. Thank you all so much for the help. :)

[Mikoh4792]

Do you need to leave the fogger the whole day? Even on the lowest setting, 12 hours seems excessive. What are the humidity levels in the enclosure? Leaving the fogger on for an hour and letting the enclosure dry out until the next morning would probably be better.

[toripyth]

While the fogger is on the humidity in his terrarium ranges from 70-80%

[Mikoh4792]

While the fogger is on the humidity in his terrarium ranges from 70-80%

What are you using to read the humidity? In my experience foggers used in screen cages make the humidty 70-80%. If you leave the fogger on for 12 hours in an enclosure for snakes, it should be near 100%, Unless you leave the screen top open.

By the way, you mentioned temperatures were 65-80. They should be 75-85.

[toripyth]

I have the exo terra large/x-tall terrarium so the top of the cage is a screen. I just use a small exo terra hygrometer.

I realize that the ideal temps would be 75-85 but whenever I raise them to that range all Charade will do is sit beside his waterdish in the cool area of his tank. When I have them around 65-80 he is much more active and appears to be more comfortable. I just assumed he preferred a lower temp range. Should I raise them anyways?

[Mikoh4792]

I have the exo terra large/x-tall terrarium so the top of the cage is a screen. I just use a small exo terra hygrometer.

I realize that the ideal temps would be 75-85 but whenever I raise them to that range all Charade will do is sit beside his waterdish in the cool area of his tank. When I have them around 65-80 he is much more active and appears to be more comfortable. I just assumed he preferred a lower temp range. Should I raise them anyways?

Okay to tell you the truth, I am not knowledgeable on BRB's. However, those temperatures seem to be the general consensus with most people. I hope an actual BRB owner or breeder can come in here to help you.

Besides that point, by exo-terra hydrometer do you mean the analog or digital? I've found generic analog thermo/hydrometers bought at the pet store to be useless. They can be off by a lot or just not work at all.

[toripyth]

It's an analog one and yeah I have to replace it pretty often because they always break haha.

[Starbuck]

i'd invest in a digital (one rated for outdoor use maybe?). It will be more accurate and last longer.

[Mikoh4792]

Okay to tell you the truth, I am not knowledgeable on BRB's. However, those temperatures seem to be the general consensus with most people. I hope an actual BRB owner or breeder can come in here to help you.

Besides that point, by exo-terra hydrometer do you mean the analog or digital? I've found generic analog thermo/hydrometers bought at the pet store to be useless. They can be off by a lot or just not work at all.

Just to add on to this post, I'm just speculating but maybe he is always active with a 65-80F gradient because he is trying to find somewhere that has more heat?

[bcr229]

Snake_Sitter is the BRB expert. He breeds them and has some beautiful animals.

I have two, a young male we got last year and an adult female who arrived yesterday. My understanding is that they do well with a cool side of 75*F, a warm side of 85*F, and higher than 85*F can be dangerous or fatal for them long-term. Babies need higher humidity, about 90%, where adults are ok at 70-80%. My youngster spends most of his time in his humid hide on the cool side, and he's only really active for a few hours in the early evening.

I think 65*F is way too cool, even breeders only drop the temps down to 70*F to get them to go into season.

[toripyth]

Thanks Starbuck, I've been on the fence about just buying a digital one to save myself money in the long run. I will pick one up. :)

Mikon: He is active in the sense that he is exploring and climbing and sitting in his water. When the temps are higher he just sits on the cold side of his cage. Also, if he was seeking heat wouldn't he go into his hide box that has the UTH underneath it?

[Mikoh4792]

Thanks Starbuck, I've been on the fence about just buying a digital one to save myself money in the long run. I will pick one up. :)

Mikon: He is active in the sense that he is exploring and climbing and sitting in his water. When the temps are higher he just sits on the cold side of his cage. Also, if he was seeking heat wouldn't he go into his hide box that has the UTH underneath it?

Yes I was just speculating. Also, it could be that his hide box is not warm enough so he is out looking for warmer areas. Again, just speculating. As someone else just mentioned the thermal gradient should be 75-85.

[toripyth]

I highly doubt that his hide box isn't warm enough but thank you for the speculation. I just want what is best for him. :)

[Mikoh4792]

I highly doubt that his hide box isn't warm enough but thank you for the speculation. I just want what is best for him. :)

You just said that his warm spot is 80F. That isn't warm enough.

I just looked up dozens of caresheets and they all recommend hot spots above 80F.

[toripyth]

Heat gradients in his cage gets up to 80F, those are from thermometers on the glass of his terrarium. I do not have a thermometer inside of his hide box but I'm assuming with an ambient temp of 80 and an UTH beneath it it would be warmer inside of his hide box.

Sorry bcr, I didn't see your post earlier. Thanks for the info! I will raise his temps to 75-85 since the general consensus is that having it lower is detrimental to his health.

[Mikoh4792]

Heat gradients in his cage gets up to 80F, those are from thermometers on the glass of his terrarium. I do not have a thermometer inside of his hide box but I'm assuming with an ambient temp of 80 and an UTH beneath it it would be warmer inside of his hide box.

Sorry bcr, I didn't see your post earlier. Thanks for the info! I will raise his temps to 75-85 since the general consensus is that having it lower is detrimental to his health.

So why aren't are you monitoring his warm spot? Why are you assuming? That's the important place to measure temps as that is where your snake will be spending it's time after eating or whenever it wants to get warm.

[toripyth]

And how would you recommend monitoring the temperatures inside of his hide box?

[Aaron_S]

I read to the part that it was "confirmed" (still guessing) scale rot.

Scale rot comes from two things normally:

1. Overly wet conditions and the snake is sitting in it.

2. Really dirty husbandry

I'm going on a limb with the first one here is the case.

If it continues, switch to a paper towel substrate to keep the wounds from being irritated by rough substrate and use a betadine solution to keep it clean until it heals.

[Mikoh4792]

And how would you recommend monitoring the temperatures inside of his hide box?

By placing a thermometer probe in there. you could also check with an infrared heat gun.

[toripyth]

Aaron: I'm pretty sure it was due to too much moisture. As I said earlier he likes to spend a lot of his time by his water dish and when I changed his substrate when I first noticed the discoloration on his scales I saw a layer of water underneath the substrate in that area. It probably got there from him making his water overflow. The fogger is located in that area too though so it probably didn't help. He shed shortly after I changed the substrate and he shed the black marks off with the rest of the skin. He is doing great now. :) I've turned down the fogger and will make sure to not fill the water up as high as to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions!
Also Mikoh, I will look into getting either a thermometer probe or an infrared heat gun. Thank you for your concern.