Burm Fanatic from Ohio...with a problem

[LuigiPython]

Hello all, I'm new around here but not new to snakes. After doing research for over 2 years now and talking to various owners and breeders, I've been looking to get a burmese python, preferably a male or at least a half dwarf if I get lucky. Well, the problem? Here in Ohio, a few snakes, including burms and retics, are no longer legal to own due to a freak accident that happened here about 2 years ago. Some of you may be familiar with it but to those who aren't, a guy that lived in a town a few miles from here set loose a bunch of his tigers, bears, lions, etc and then killed himself. Now, a lot of exotic animals are illegal to own and get ready for this. To own a burm, I believe you have to have a permit, pay somewhere up to $300 a year and have at least $100,000 - $500,000 in liability insurance which I think is just absurd. I hate that this has happened because they pretty much did all of this right when I was going to get my first baby green patternless a few months back.

I've talked to a lot of people on various forums and all of them agree this is stupid. A few people even told me I should still go ahead and get one and not worry about all this crap. I know of quite a few people here that still have retics and burms illegally. The only downside is I live in an apartment, though pet friendly, I'd hate having to risk having to give up the snake and then it being destroyed but I really don't have to worry about it though since the office closes rather early and they don't really get serious with people unless they're not paying their rent.

I'm just wondering what would you guys do? All of this just sucks because you guys have no idea how bad I've been wanting one. Seriously, they're no more dangerous than a dog. I'd worry more-so about getting attacked by my neighbors American Bulldog than being harmed by a burm :(

[infernalis]

sSnakeSs.com - Rules (http://www.ssnakess.com/index.php?page=rules)

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[Lankyrob]

Welcome. Personally i would respect the laws in your area or move. Breaking the law just makes us all look bad in the media when you get caught

[SikSol]

You really only have 3 options, 1. Obey the law 2. Don't and do it anyways 3. Move.

Former Ohio resident myself, I own burms, venomous snakes(the real dent to the pocket), a gator, and now have a large monitor coming. So as you can see it would cost me a good bit of money to legally live there with my animals. I moved and now live in West Virginia just across the river from Ohio. No exotic laws here at all, free and clear to own what I want. Obviously this isn't a viable choice for everyone but just an example of what I did.

If you decide to do it "illegally' which I would advise against but if you did you best make completely sure you are capable of not telling a soul, not friends, family, anyone. People chit chat and talk a lot and a lot of people are paranoid about snakes and would not hesitate one bit to turn you in. Then your facing fines and legal action and your animals will be removed from your care and possibly killed.

Ideally do it the legal way, if you are that determined to own a burm it will be worth the money for you. $300 a year is nothing, that is $25 a month. I used to pay $12 a month for $100,000 of insurance. If you can't afford $37-$40 a month you most likely can't afford to properly care for a large constrictor in the first place. My 13 ft burm eats that much money in food alone every month.

[KORBIN5895]

How about you just do it legally so you don't threaten the hobby for others?The reason we lose privileges is not because of the law abiding citizens but because of the selfish people that disregard the law.

[LuigiPython]

Thanks guys and yeah I agree with you all. Paying for the permit is by no means hard for me and if that's what it'll take for to own successfully own one, I'm all for it :) The price isn't bad, I just hate they have all of these loops and whatnot to make them appear dangerous. It's just stupid. I'm going to go find out where I can get the permit.

[bcr229]

Speaking as a (thankfully) former landlady, if a tenant of mine had been keeping pets in violation of the law, that tenant would have been evicted very quickly. Not sure about Ohio laws, in my old state I could get it done in less than 30 days.

In your position I would start looking for jobs in states where the pets I wanted to own were legal, and I'd move.

[SikSol]

Thanks guys and yeah I agree with you all. Paying for the permit is by no means hard for me and if that's what it'll take for to own successfully own one, I'm all for it :) The price isn't bad, I just hate they have all of these loops and whatnot to make them appear dangerous. It's just stupid. I'm going to go find out where I can get the permit.

I see where you are coming from with jumping through all the loops making it a pain but its a good thing in a way. I've seen far too many people owning animals they shouldn't. A lot of mine are rescues from people in over their head, such as my gator and a couple venomous. These extra steps people have to take now will hopefully deter a lot of those people and only those truly serious and dedicated will end up with these type of animals.

Glad to hear your going to go through with things the legal way!

[StudentoReptile]

I see where you are coming from with jumping through all the loops making it a pain but its a good thing in a way. I've seen far too many people owning animals they shouldn't. A lot of mine are rescues from people in over their head, such as my gator and a couple venomous. These extra steps people have to take now will hopefully deter a lot of those people and only those truly serious and dedicated will end up with these type of animals.

Glad to hear your going to go through with things the legal way!

But here's the thing...are the people who really NEED to follow these laws actually going to? Kinda like gun laws....Everyone has seen the memes and whatnot: Since when do criminal abide by laws?

Now don't get me wrong; I concur there should be some form of regulation on some of these animals, but it's a slippery slope and get overhanded quickly. Some of the stuff Ohio has in place is pretty steep just to keep a large snake.

[Donnie]

Hello and welcome

[SikSol]

But here's the thing...are the people who really NEED to follow these laws actually going to? Kinda like gun laws....Everyone has seen the memes and whatnot: Since when do criminal abide by laws?

Now don't get me wrong; I concur there should be some form of regulation on some of these animals, but it's a slippery slope and get overhanded quickly. Some of the stuff Ohio has in place is pretty steep just to keep a large snake.

I was leaning more towards things like venomous and gators as I've seen far to many people owning these that have no business with them. I agree it's a bit much for just large constrictors though.

[Danimal]

But here's the thing...are the people who really NEED to follow these laws actually going to? Kinda like gun laws....Everyone has seen the memes and whatnot: Since when do criminal abide by laws?

I would be very careful with this line of thinking, I'm not saying you're wrong but I would let folks draw their own conclusions. I would take a hard look at my priorities before choosing to keep an animal that could possible affect my family directly or indirectly. If it is that important to you I would move and keep it on the up and up. You can assume that there are, I'm sure, people that will try to skate and get by but you have no way of knowing that you aren't the one that is going to get caught and possible made an example of.

[smy_749]

Get a ball python and look at it through a magnifying glass.

The costs don't outweigh the benefits. And I only say this because there is other options that you could get into legally without risk. If you love reptiles you won't have a hard time falling in love with something else. Just start looking at pics of any of the morelia and you will prob fall in love right away. If you must have burms, I would advise you to move, because you won't be satisfied with just one. And having a collection of burms in a state where it is illegal is much worse than just 1 burm amongst a collection of other things.

[Starbuck]

Get a ball python and look at it through a magnifying glass.


^^^^ LOL awesome :) very well said :) made me laugh my bum off

[StudentoReptile]

I would be very careful with this line of thinking, I'm not saying you're wrong but I would let folks draw their own conclusions. I would take a hard look at my priorities before choosing to keep an animal that could possible affect my family directly or indirectly. If it is that important to you I would move and keep it on the up and up. You can assume that there are, I'm sure, people that will try to skate and get by but you have no way of knowing that you aren't the one that is going to get caught and possible made an example of.

I think you misunderstood me. I was not trying to advocate people breaking the law. I was merely trying to emphasize the ineffectiveness of such laws. The majority demographic (mostly responsible keepers) have to play by the rules and comply, while the people who the law was really written for, will likely continue to break it.

Its not just about reptiles, or guns, its everything. Traffic violations, domestic crime, fraud, etc...

[Aaron_S]

I think you misunderstood me. I was not trying to advocate people breaking the law. I was merely trying to emphasize the ineffectiveness of such laws. The majority demographic (mostly responsible keepers) have to play by the rules and comply, while the people who the law was really written for, will likely continue to break it.

Its not just about reptiles, or guns, its everything. Traffic violations, domestic crime, fraud, etc...

Speaking about reptiles and not the rest of society I think as a community (which we just like to call ourselves) need to NOT back those kind of people when they get in trouble. We shouldn't rally behind idiots who keep certain herps because they are "one of us". We should throw them under the bus and make an example that the rest of us are not like them.

I make this point because someone brought up that we need to all stick together when it was discussed on another forum about the guy who was bit like 11 times by rattlers or something.

She had said we all need to rally behind him to keep his reptiles or whatever and that he's one of us. Him, and others who act like that, are NOT a part of the reptile community because they ONLY care about themselves and not the harm to everybody's hobby.

[Lankyrob]

^^^^^ This

[StudentoReptile]

Speaking about reptiles and not the rest of society I think as a community (which we just like to call ourselves) need to NOT back those kind of people when they get in trouble. We shouldn't rally behind idiots who keep certain herps because they are "one of us". We should throw them under the bus and make an example that the rest of us are not like them.

I make this point because someone brought up that we need to all stick together when it was discussed on another forum about the guy who was bit like 11 times by rattlers or something.

She had said we all need to rally behind him to keep his reptiles or whatever and that he's one of us. Him, and others who act like that, are NOT a part of the reptile community because they ONLY care about themselves and not the harm to everybody's hobby.

I actually agree with this.

[SnakeyJay]

Speaking about reptiles and not the rest of society I think as a community (which we just like to call ourselves) need to NOT back those kind of people when they get in trouble. We shouldn't rally behind idiots who keep certain herps because they are "one of us". We should throw them under the bus and make an example that the rest of us are not like them.

I make this point because someone brought up that we need to all stick together when it was discussed on another forum about the guy who was bit like 11 times by rattlers or something.

She had said we all need to rally behind him to keep his reptiles or whatever and that he's one of us. Him, and others who act like that, are NOT a part of the reptile community because they ONLY care about themselves and not the harm to everybody's hobby.

I couldn't have said it better, that's spot on!!

[Aaron_S]

I feel like adding that since we always want to police ourselves this is how. Give up these people to get properly fined or charges laid against them.

Weed them out and don't let them in to the real community.

The choice is ours to either have an upstanding community or a free-for-all that people seem to be okay with now that WILL see more bans.

[Danimal]

I feel like adding that since we always want to police ourselves this is how. Give up these people to get properly fined or charges laid against them.

Weed them out and don't let them in to the real community.

The choice is ours to either have an upstanding community or a free-for-all that people seem to be okay with now that WILL see more bans.

I am kinda right were you guys are, I don't think it's limited to the reptile community though, I believe it's to a lesser degree about education in the hobby and more about expanding the field of view. That's the rub though, how do you get people to change the way they think? I think this is a conversation worth having, but I think this is the wrong thread to have it in. I would love to get more of the groups input and hash it out a bit.

[Kettennatter]

Luigi, please don't take this as legal advise, since I'm not a lawyer, but to my knowledge the Ohio Dangerous Animal Act mandates the following:

A) Liability insurance is required for venomous snakes, not constrictors.

B) Registration and licensing is mandatory for constrictors of an actual length of 12 ft. or more. Depending on the size of your burms, the licensing requirement may not apply.

C) This law will take effect on Janury, 2014.

I would say that $150 for a non-breeding license is still steep, but far better than the alternative. Unfortunately, the Ohio law rewards those who purposely underfeed their animals.

[possum]

I'd advise you to stay within the laws (or move to where they are less restrictive?) if you care about your animals. It won't be "pretty" if (when) they are confiscated as illegal. Years back I jumped thru many hoops to keep some non-native rattlesnakes ("detrimental species"/venomous) in California, and yes, had to pay for permits & pass inspection. And that was just for some snakes that were dumped on me... personally I tend to like every snake I've been priviledged to know...are you sure you can't be happy with some 'shorter' ones?

[Pirarucu]

Welcome aboard!