Pointless WAR!!

[Jeromerules]

I am just wondering how many people feel the way I do on this forum. I am totally against this war on Iraq. It is not the right way to go. Why fight to achieve peace? Why Kill to achieve peace? is it even possible??? NO it's not. Ex. After WW2 was over . Did the Jews Go to Germany and slaughter millions of innocent Germans to get revenge? No they did not. So why is it right for George Bush to go to afghanistan and bomb and kill many innocent afghans? It's not fair. I am not saying that sep. 11 was not that bad. It was a terrible incident and should never have happened but still when you look at the jews we can compare numbers. Innocent people Slaughtered MILLIONS. Sept. 11 a couple thousand. And yet because a couple thousand people are killed the USA is going overseas and getting revenge. In my opinion the USA would look stronger and alot better to the rest of the world if they had stood there ground and offered peace to the afghans and apologised for past problems. Not GO OVER AND BOB THE HELL OUT OF THEM. I heard a quote the other day and it really hit me. it said "You Can Bomb The World Into Pieces...... But You Can't Bomb The World Into Peace." I think this is soooo true. You cannot achieve Peace with war. And You might say so what then should we do? I really don't know but Believe me I am trying to think of things. ANd I think Everybody should. Once you have a great opinion then VOICE it. People need to hear. I've written soo much now that I've confused myslef and I don't even know where I am at. To all you americans out there. I am not insulting you. Your country is great and I had just come back from living there for 3 months and I love (because I lived in Hawaii) But yeah. Americans are great people.all Races and cultures in this world are great people. I am just trying to get people to realize this. But I can't really do it alone. For all you canadians that agree with me. Please be a voice for our country. Join the peace rallies that have been going on. I think there is another one on Feb 15. and they are all across Canada. Sorry if this post was a little confusing. My Mind is all over the place and I have about 8000 ideas all over the place. But yeah. Thanks Alot for reading I hoped this message has changed you even a little.
Thanks
Jerome

[Pythonian]

OKay .. i know i'm gonna get hazed for this.. but i was taught to speak what i belive.

I investigated this situation one night. Everybody try to remember what happened after 9/11. we all went after bin laden. Well .. then we forgot about him ... why? .. why didn't we finish the job?? .. well as this is goin gon Saddam let the weapons inspectors in and cooperated... the german (leader of the UN weapon inspection) i forget his name... said he is cooperating perfectly... ALL OF A SUDDEN "we have to go kill iraq" .. THEN saddam stopped cooperating.. he did NOTHING to instigate this attack .. IMHO he is a bad person .. but he didn't do **** to make us get into this war!! .. We are pissing off a lot of people!! I'm looking for the page tonight cause i lost it and i'm going to scan it to show you.. but there is a section in the Times where a reporter said "Why Iraq?" and this was George Bush's quote.... and i memorized this quote... "because he tried to kill my daddy." He is a ******.. Tony Blair is a ******... DAMNIT EVERYBODY IS A ******!!

Mike

[Jeromerules]

SSOOOOO FRICKEN TRUE Man. George Bush is not a very smart man. It's sad because look at all the countries he's bringing down with him.

[katev17]

Wow, this is one thread that's going to lead into so many arguments...

Mike: You should watch some of the words you use, by calling people ******** you may be indirectly insulting someone else. "The limits of my vocabulary show the limits of my mind."

Kate

[Pythonian]

Every single person that i mentioned in this thread is ********... I am sorry to those who took offense to that... ?

Mike

[katev17]

No, that's not what I'm saying... I'm saying that the word is insulting, demeaning and improper. The people you're talking about aren't "********" they're incompetent.

Kate

[Pythonian]

OHHHHHH!!! i'm sorry kate i missunderstood u .. yes you're right i appologize.
Mike

[katev17]

Alright, no problem Mike! Just as long as you see what I mean.. :) Thanks

Kate

[Them and Us]

i got myself into this once already. I'm just going to say that no i don't agree with this war.I don't believe it is solely motivated by the factthat Iraq has biological and nuclear weapons. And i don't agree with a lot of what Bush is saying and that we need more proof of what he is saying. Even Tony Blair, prime minister of England, said that more proof of what Bush is saying is needed for any type of atack and Blair wants UN support as wel. i still wish all of the luck in the world to the men and women who may or may not fight and die in it. I just feel that it is not solely our right to do what we are doing. we are one of if not the super power, but it doesn't mean we have to use that to get what we want when we want it. I've been doing so much thinking. We are as most others are in our minds a moral country. we want freedom and democracy for the people in other countries, we want them to be rid of an oppressive government,is that so wrong? no. but is it our job to give them that? History has shown that people find ways, people revolt and Iraq , if the people want it, will be changed. I just think that the United States does not need to do this for the Iraqi people. It would be different if we were asked for aid by these people.I also believe it says something when France,Germany,Russia , Japan and whoever else are all against this.i ddn't fuly express my idea here. I think I tried to be less offensive here now than in past posts.

[anygiven60]

I say stop your crying... we the people elect our President, our leader, our protector... no one else makes that decision except for the PEOPLE... he does what is best for the nation, the people and for our future life... war is part of the way we live... its happened since the start of time and will remain till the end of time...if you believe in "world" peace then you have alot of hopeless wishing to do... there will never be such a thing... there is what. 2.5 billions minds all that think differently from one another...i say do what needs to be done for the good of the American people and for the United States of America..... God Bless America!

[Them and Us]

Have a little respect. its not crying. its debating. its thinking differently. Leaders of a nation do not always do what is best for a nation, that is displayed well thrughout history. they do what they believe is best for themselves and the nation. the people do not elect the president the electoral college does.the people, the common voter, try to get the elector to cast their vote according to the popular vote. A member of the electoral college may vote however they wish wheather or not it is the desire of the majority of the people. thats an on going debate in the US. many people want direct democracy and an end to the electoral college system. Yes i believe world peace is only a dream for the facts that one you have to have the opposite of everything to have said thing. love/hate etc. and also i believe at heart humans are a malicious race , however are evolved enough to control this. You say do what is for the good of the american people but the debate is wheather or not this is the best thing for the american people. some say yes, some say no. Its an impossible question to answer as everyone does have an opinion and no one person or governing body can truthfully claim that they are entirely correct. they would be claiming to be infallible then. nothing is infallible. once again in my opinion.

[Matt_K]

I think this could be a very good thread. I know a lot of people have their OWN opinions on how they feel about A) The President B) Bin Laden C) Saddam and D) The war in a whole.. However we all must remember to respect one anothers thoughts. Lets not turn this into a flame war or start bickering with one another over individual thoughts, you never know, that same person that you are arguing with on the forums might just end up beside you in the line of fire. Anything is possible right now, the world is a not so stable place. Look at todays happenings for instance, first we have The Shuttle, 7 lives lost.. We also had an Avalanche today in Canada with another 6 lives lost. It seems like everytime you sit down to watch the news something else has happened. Personally, i am not for the war, but the thousands of Americans and Canadians who sign up for the Army every year are and to them i take my hat off.. They truley are couragious people. So basically all i wanted to say was lets all show eachother a little respect in this thread and not let it get out of hand, we will all be in this together when and if it goes down..

Matt K

[Them and Us]

I do completely agree Matt. The last post about this got way out of hand and insults were thrown around and accusatons made. lets not turn into politicians people. haha. small joke. very small.

[Sir Hiss]

Ok there are some things wrong here. Since when would we represent the Jews if we compared todays conflicts with WW2? The Jews, then, would represent today's terrorized Iraqi people. What happened? The U.S. took control and stopped the genocide of the Jews in WW2 and likewise we should put a stop to the terror Iraq uses today. Even more so we could look at Japan. they, for your information, were far more harsh than the Germans were. Read about it. It was their plan to take over the world. The civilians whom the Japanese were killing could do nothing. It was only stopped when the U.S. was brought into it. And in both of these cases the ONLY thing that kept these countries from getting what they wanted was the U.S.. If you do not agree with this then you must be supporting what they did and what Iraq is doing now. Your comparison make no sense. Then you asked since when did dropping bombs create world peace. Well lets see. It took a lot of dropping bombs to stop Germany, and it took even bigger bombs to stop the Japanese. Because we dropped bombs on both of those countries and continued to do so, it finally ended the war and created peace. So it's not hard to see how dropping bomb can and has be proven to create peace. Both of you claims are bogus. Get over it or move to Iraq and see if you can write another email to us, here, that the U.S. should not get involved. Oh wait, ordinary peole can't you computers there. And don't complain or you be shot. Good Luck.

[Sir Hiss]

Oh and you also think George Bush is not smart. Go do what he did as far as education is concerned. You would not even come close. He, whether you like it or not, is very smart, and that simply is not debatable.

[marisa]

thoughts?

No President, None, can make everyone happy. This thread would be here no matter who was President. No one can agree all the time. So its really a waste of time to constantly debate these things as no one can change the way someone feels about the President. As for the war, that of course is good debating! :)

Marisa

[Them and Us]

I'm not sure who you were talking to. Also it was not necessary to drop Nuclear weapons on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. We were already beating the Japanese back an back by the day. Those bombs were dropped to show the world , especially Russia, what we had. We did not even give the Japanese a demonstration of the destructive power of those bombs. not even a test on a remote island so Japan could see the destructive power. Ibelieve if they were shown what would happen they wold have surendered. But instead we droppd those two boms and now in both places birth defects are extremely high and life expectancies lower. in retrospect i think many would agree that we were wrong. their claims aren't bogus, its their opinion

[anygiven60]

Not necessary? haha...yet the lose of American life was acceptable in your terms with their attack on us at Peral Harbour? The bombs were nothing more than a msg of "Hit us and we'll hit harder"... Their attack on us was a low blow and we prevented the lose of more life with the two bombs... God knows how long an actual war would have gone on or how many countless lives would of been lose... It was a nail through their heart and well deserved...

[Them and Us]

we know. its taught in school today. the US was so very close to defeating Japan. and the use of the atom bombs was not absolutely necessary. they teach in school today,governmentally funded schools teach today the main reason it was done was to alert the Russians of what we had. I did not say the loss of American life was acceptable at all. I will say however that at Pearl Harbor two whole entire cities were not destroyed , children were not obliterated and ash outlines of bodies were not present on walls.Yes lives were lost and families ruined. It was terrible i do not deny that . A nail through the heart? It was overkill. its repeatedly stabbing after the kill.

[marisa]

Talking to everyone who started debating George Bushs good points and bad points. Its useless because the fact is not everyone will ever agree on one single president. Its like argueing crunchy peanut butter over smooth! People like different people and not everyone will always believe in any certian President. I see the discussion that leads to this as the last posts were, as useless. That whole reason we have different political parties is because people can disagree.

I just don't see why anyone is making certain points they are because most seem invalid to the original posters post. That's just MHO.

Marisa

[Them and Us]

because we are people. we debate. debate is healthy. its shows people are thinking . it may look like I'm angry at anygiven or hiss but really i do respect them. I'm glad they are atleast paying some attention to world affairs ( home affirs as well for us USAins) and have an opinion. i respect that. people who say " who cars" i worry about.

[andrea]

just some of my thoughts...

if you are into the bible: when all the world turns against Israel, that is when the world will come to an end. america has been one of the very few countries on the side of israel for ages. therefore people who believe this would want us to whatever we can to stay on the side of israel and this war isnt as simple as everyone is making it seem. it isnt just about weapons inspection, it is about too many things for me to list on here before i have to go.

also, whether i felt that a war was right or wrong i would NEVER protest it. does anyone know personally a vietnam vet? i do, three uncles and my father in law. they came back here messed up so f****n bad, and the entire country treated them like it was THEIR fault. they did not want to go. but they were there, and people over here who didnt go were sending them a hopeless message, like what were they there for? what were they dying for? instead of jumping on a bandwagon of protest, we need to stand up and say "we support our troups!" "we support all the soldiers doing their duty!" THAT is what needs to be said.

the soldiers themselves got on TV after desert storm, and i realize a LOT of the people here are a lot younger than i am and dont remember desert storm as clearly. my cousin was over there and one of the last ones to be brought back. these soldiers got on TV and SAID, all your protests make us feel hopeless. no one wants war. that doesnt need to be debated.

people are stupid if they think that the gov't tells us everything. we do NOT know even HALF of what goes on and anyone who thinks we do is terribly naive. we cannot stop war. what we need to do is pray to our various gods that our leaders will do the right thing for ALL people involved, for all the years to come. whether we think that is the right thing or not, like when you are a child and you dont know why your mom or dad wont let you do something. it seems dumb and unfair but when we grow up and know what they know we understand.

We will never know what our leaders know. that is all for the best. we just have to pray for the troups, support them, and hope that the leaders know what they are doing. some situations have no right or wrong. we just have to hope that they will do things in the BEST of the evils that are available to them.

[OttawaChris]

Whether I think Bush is smart or not... I think he is book smart not street smart. "Most of our imports come from other countries"

Do I think we should spank Iraq? Yes. He has had ample opportunity to come clean and behave. He chose to toy with a dog that obviously wants at him so now he is going to get bitten.

Do I think Canada should be backing the rest of the countries in all this? Yes. They would all likely be backing us had we decided to get into a fight.

I think Hussein is both crazy enough and stupid enough to try and launch some kind of attack on someone. Is it the states? Nah! Its the other American State called Isreal that is in danger. The Americans have held them under their wing for a long time so the Arab nation associates them as one and the same now.

My personal thoughts are that weapons arent the only reason Bush wants in there... thats a front because Iraq has a LOT of oil (something I think we can all commonly gripe about the price of)
Bush knows economics therefore he knows that high oil prices= slow economy.

I would be interested in hearing what a soldier thinks of all this rather than the rest of us that hide behind them and gripe.

[tHeGiNo]

people are stupid if they think that the gov't tells us everything. we do NOT know even HALF of what goes on and anyone who thinks we do is terribly naive. we cannot stop war. what we need to do is pray to our various gods that our leaders will do the right thing for ALL people involved, for all the years to come. whether we think that is the right thing or not, like when you are a child and you dont know why your mom or dad wont let you do something. it seems dumb and unfair but when we grow up and know what they know we understand.

That was a very good point, and got me thinking. I really do not want to get involved in this, but I will say I support Bush. I mean she made a very good point when she said that the gov. doesnt tell us everything, and that may say it all. For all we know, Iraq could have been planning a nuclear attack. If the gov. had told us this, we would all be flipping out wouldn't we? That is all as I do not want to start anything :)

[Kathy]

I think we were a lot closer to war with the cuban missle crisis. The russians actually had the bombs set up and aimed at the US.

Bush isnt the bad guy in this situation. My sister seems to think that he wants to blow everyone up and that he should be shot. All he is trying to do is stp Sadam from using his weapons of mass destruction on everybody. Everyone knows he has them, they are just hidden. The UN doesn't want to rush into anything without knowing all the details, which is fair, but I think that Bush can see the danger and that it has to be stopped as quickly as possible.

[Them and Us]

yeah but Saddam has made no formal threat. Andi do not think that Bush's only motive to move into the east is to rid he world of a tyrant and disarm them. i believe there are other motives.

[Lisa]

http://isch.bin.dem.krasseste.surfern.bei.t-online.de/dem.allern.krasseste/dabbelju.jpg

[tHeGiNo]

yeah but Saddam has made no formal threat. Andi do not think that Bush's only motive to move into the east is to rid he world of a tyrant and disarm them. i believe there are other motives.

Again will all do respect, you know this how? If I am not mistaken you do not work for the government and know everything that is going on. As the previous poster stated, we do NOT know everything that goes on, that is for sure. :)

[V.aw]

I dont believe in any wars, but sometimes its unavoidable. Think about it. Right now we have a country that has been caught buying uranium and many other raw materials used for mass destruction. (sorry saadaam isnt buying uranium to make a snowcone machine) I honestly think that all of the discussion about warring Iraq is getting old. I think if they're gonna do it, they should do it. Whatever happened to the element of surprise? All i see on CNN is bush contemplating daily about attacking Iraq.

The thing that worries me more than Iraq is N Korea. They have the resources, they have the manpower, and they have possibly the most pyschotic leader to date.

[V.aw]

And to add, Alot of people are against the war. USA has a very strict policy on how humans are to be treated, and so does NATO. Iraq isnt complying. They spend more money on their military than they do on their own people. I think thats the main reason Bush is involved. (doesnt mean i like him, but i do agree with him)

N Korea's Kim Lee Jong (spelling?) Spends about 700K a year on average for his wines. (hes an alcoholic) And the average person makes no more than 700$ a year. The situation in Iraq is pretty well the same, i just don't know the figures. Whats wrong with that picture? Starving children deserve to be fought for, someone has to do it.

[nouserpif]

You can bomb the world to peices, but you can't bomb it to peace.

Anarchy not Artillary!
Dan Conner

[katev17]

HAHA Love it, Lisa.

Kate

[Them and Us]

TheGino: okay you are correct . i do not know they haven't or have. but wouldn't the government prefer having the support of their people? and they would have so much more support and believe it or not a little from me if we were told that Iraq was directly threatening us.

Haha Lisa. I love it. very funny

[tHeGiNo]

Yes true but imagine the chaos there would be if we all knew that the country was going to be attacked with nuclear bombs. I'm glad you didn't take what I said offensively as a lot of people like to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Sir Hiss]

Concerningt the nuclear bombs. I was very necessary to drop the bombs. Like I said the Japanese plan, for which I forget the name but could find it if you wanted me to, was to take over the whole world. Their soldiers would NEVER give up. They made an oath to kill themselves before they did anything against this plan. In ordre for us to defeat Japan we would have had to invade the island. Our military geneals estimated the U.S. would lose over a million lives in order to get n the island. That did not inlude all of the Japanese lives which would have to be close to that number. It was absolutlely imparative the we drop the bombs. Be glad that we had them and that our Presisdent was strong enough to order it done. But please don't get me wrong. I don't support the killing of anyone not even our enemies. I would have a very hard time making the decision that Truman made. But presented with the facts above, I would have t agree with what he did, whether I like killing or not. And by the way we were hardly close to winning the war. It has been said that we have always been taught that we were really winning against Japan, but as mentioned in this thread we cannot always trust in what the government tells us. And trust me no person would drop these bombs on Japan if we were so close to winning. Further more they would not do it to show the world what we had. Truman would have just invited them to New Mexico to do that. Read history and you will see that we were never really close to beating Japan.

[Them and Us]

The Gino : in re-thinknig, its a catch 22. we want some proof or some initiative but then again is it safer to not know? the thing is , is that a person is smart. but people are stupid and panicky. it would be cold war era bunkers all over the place again.

Sir Hiss: I do read history and I particpate in discussions with others and what I have read and concluded to myself was as I already said. You agree. I disagree. Many World War 2 soldiers, teachers in school and politicians disagreed with those bombings. and many also agreed with them. we can not determine which way would have been correct as we do not know what the outcome would have been if other actions were taken. No one is to say which was the right way. and as long as there is someone to challenge the other there will be no certainties. whats done is done. I'm just saying i don't agree with what happened and you do and we both have our reasons and proofs. and thats great. healthy arguing. nothing better. it shows thought. and in this day and age we need more thinkers and less rock stars. althought rock stardom is appealing.

[tHeGiNo]

Personally, I feel the Americans dropped the bombs to end the war, to cut the killing of people around the world and limit it to Japan, which would therefore result in the forfeit. We all know USA did not HAVE to dropped the bombs but if they hadn't many more innocent lives would have been lost, the outcome would be the same no matter what there choice. It was either all the countries involved would lose lives or drop the bombs on Japan, and end the war. Whether it was the right decision, as you said we cannot know as we do not know the outcome if they decided not to. Also, without any hate or anything of the sort, I think Japan had every opportunity to forfeit, but they continued.

[JeffT]

ya Bush really isnt too smart. Hes been is power for such a short time and hes going into his second war already. If ANY war should be fought it should be in Israel where people are being attacked day after day just because the cant fuc*ing get along. I mean everyday on the news it says another 20 people have died do to suicide bombers and gun men. That country need serious peace keeping.

[Them and Us]

Well if we are going to discuss the problems there then we will be bringing religion into this argument and thats three of the conversation warnings haha. putting them together is like crossing the streams in the Ghost Busters movies.

[Sir Hiss]

Them and Us: I am glad people in this form believe and practice a civilized and controlled debate. I am serious. It is just stupid to have a dumb debates and that is what happens on a lot of forums. So it's cool.

[shaggybill]

I was just reading all these comments and I was just hopin that everybody realizes that these are just opinions. Lets discuss, not cut each others throats.

Anyways, I'd have to say that Bush rocks. He's right.

All the anti-war people complain that that innocents will die if we go to war. That argument is stupid. Innocents are going to die no matter what we do. If we fight a war, they will die, and if we let that idiot Saddam go, innocents will die, and in probably greater numbers.

What we have to decide is: Do we want innocents to die while we are fighting for the freedom of others? Or do we want them to die while we sit back and watch Saddam kill them with deadly gas and torture chambers?

Its a question of morals and principles.

Have you read any stories of some of those people who have escaped that country and his oppression and came to America. They torture children in front of their parents to get the parents to talk. Who knows what other horrors they face?

And you just wanna sit back and let him go? Thats insane!

C'mon people.

And its not all about the oil. Thats just something some freakin anti-Bush wacko thought of to make an argument against him. Maybe Bush just has a conscience. Ever thought of that?

-----------------------------

Ho hum....this is my first post and I probably already have everybody hating me.

Oh well, I hope we can still be cool with each other.

[Jeromerules]

hey buddy easy> You sound a bit harsh. just chill a bit. Everybody has there own decisions here. No need for you to say things are stupid. This forum is not to cut down ideas but to express yours. i respect your decisions. But why not take him out and then his weapons later? Destroying the weapons includes destroying innocent people. Nobody can find the perfect way to prevent war and chaos but we can find a just way somehow. I don't know how. And I really wish I did. if people would just be peaceful then the world would be great. Global disarmament. Including the United States. Would be awesome. But somethings just can't happen because unfortunately evil still lives on. Ohh well
That's my opinion and thanks for reading

[tHeGiNo]

LoL Jerome no offense bud but he didn't appear to me as coming off harsh. Not at all. I think he made a strong point regarding anyone supporting "anti-war". I was going to say that myself in my previous post but thought it might stir up something, however it is absolutely true. People are going to die no matter what we do, if we stop them, then only the guilty will die, and the innocent will strive on. I do not feel he was cutting down anyone's opinions, just stating his.

But why not take him out and then his weapons later? Destroying the weapons includes destroying innocent people. Nobody can find the perfect way to prevent war and chaos but we can find a just way somehow.

Well have you ever thought that if we tried taking out Sadaam, and failed, the weapons he may or may not have may be used in retaliation? These are things you have to think about and I think Bush is going a great job of dealing with the situation. Also I may be wrong but I do not think they are killing anyone in the midst of destroying any weapons they may have? Also it takes two to tango. If we want to create peace the other party must as well, and apparantly peace is at the end of the list for terrorists and such individuals as Sadaam.

Again as you and many others have said, these are only opinions, so please do not take offense to them.

[Jeromerules]

yeah I got ya man. I know about the retaliation and that's why I don't think anybody could find a better way to solve this problem. The best way would be to just have everyone be perfect which is impossible so really I don't know how to achieve peace. I Still do not support the war or bombing. George busch has been pressuring Canada and it's been our decision to join this war. By the way did any of the americans hear about the canadian soldiers who were killed by american bombers?I talked to many americans since this summer and no american had a clue of what I was talking about. I don't know if your gov'nt keeps that under wraps but that is a major decision in joining the USA to go fight against Iraq. I believe that it is the USA's responsibility and that if they want to get their noses into it they should do it themselves otherwise it's getting others involved and it makes more countries hate the countries in which are getting involved. If that made any sense then please say so.
Thanks
Jerome

[shaggybill]

Hey, Jerome, I didn`t mean to come off harsh. Sorry dude. I was thinking about Saddam and how mad he made me with all these stories I hear about his method of getting his way in his own country, and it probably came across in my writing.

About those people who didnt have a clue about those soldiers we accidentally killed, they must not keep up with the news, because it was all over the place. And even though it was an accident, it shouldn`t have happened.

Anyways, if Saddam would step down and all that stuff, I would love for there not to be a war. But I dont see that happening. I can see him going nuts and bombing everyone with chemicals and whatever else he has. Plus, they have good reason to believe he's paying $25,000 to families who kids offer themselves as suicide bombers. I just read that in an article, so I dont know if thats true or not.

But how can we topple him without war? Its not like we can go over there and snipe him off, though I would gladly volunteer.

Anyways, I do respect your opinion. And I do not think there is going to be a perfect resolution to this. But personally, I think it would be better to get rid of the injustice at the cost of a few innocents, rather than let injustice rule at the expense of probably many more innocents.

If we did go to war, really, how many civilians would die? I doubt that many. Its not like we are going to go bomb the middle of Bahgdad and kill as many people as possible.

[Nanashi04]

I do not want the US to go to war at all, but I honestly do not keep up with any of it. I don't like the idea of war for my own selfish reasons, but, regaurdless, they're reasons. It's simply to drastic a change. Being all scared and stuff... people leaving, never coming back... it all seems very confusing and frightning. >.< I should pay attention to it, but, maybe I just think that if I don't know, that it's not happening... Not very logical, I know.
At least the mid-west seems like a fairly safe place - nothing worth bombing here.

just my 2 cents.

[Lisa]

The bread basket of america not worth bombing? The central USA is a prime target, specially for weapons of mass destruction. I forget who said it but "An army fights on it's stomach."

[Lizzy001]

i agree about george bush.....not smart!:confused:

[J_Riley]

Originally posted by Sir Hiss
Concerningt the nuclear bombs. I was very necessary to drop the bombs. Like I said the Japanese plan, for which I forget the name but could find it if you wanted me to, was to take over the whole world. Their soldiers would NEVER give up. They made an oath to kill themselves before they did anything against this plan. In ordre for us to defeat Japan we would have had to invade the island. Our military geneals estimated the U.S. would lose over a million lives in order to get n the island. That did not inlude all of the Japanese lives which would have to be close to that number. It was absolutlely imparative the we drop the bombs. Be glad that we had them and that our Presisdent was strong enough to order it done. But please don't get me wrong. I don't support the killing of anyone not even our enemies. I would have a very hard time making the decision that Truman made. But presented with the facts above, I would have t agree with what he did, whether I like killing or not. And by the way we were hardly close to winning the war. It has been said that we have always been taught that we were really winning against Japan, but as mentioned in this thread we cannot always trust in what the government tells us. And trust me no person would drop these bombs on Japan if we were so close to winning. Further more they would not do it to show the world what we had. Truman would have just invited them to New Mexico to do that. Read history and you will see that we were never really close to beating Japan.

What??

The Japanese didn't want to take over the world, they wanted to establish the Greater East Asia co-prosperisty sphere. You have to remember in the 30's Asia wasn't anywhere near as developed as they are these days. The USA was dictating what went on over there with threats of repercussions for a long time. The Japanese were fed up with doing what the US deemed correct. What the Japanese wanted were the raw materials of the Phillippines and New Guinea (mostly OIL, sound familiar?).

The Japanese are a very ancient culture, steeped in Bushido, the code of the warrior. Among other things, it was a disgrace to surrender and suicide was more honorable than surrender. That is why the bombs were necessary. That way only the Japanese would suffer huge casualties. And make no mistake, women and children were prepared to fight American soldiers invading the mainland with sharpened bamboo sticks.

The americans were winning the war against the Japanese with "leftovers" - the US's primary opponent was Hitler and the germans and the bulk of their war resources went to Europe. As an Island nation, Japan depended on importation of the bulk of their natural resources, and back in the 30's and 40's the only bulk transport method was ships. And the US submarines were blowing them to hell, to the tune of a million tons a month from 1943 onwards. The outcome of WWII was never in question in the Pacific after 1942, it was just a matter of how long it would take American industry to get up to speed. Check the figures of american warships produced pre 1942 and psot 1942, they are vastly different. In fact, in 1944, the US cancelled dozens and dozens of warships because they knew the war would be over soon.

The Japanese themselves predicted before the war started that if they didn't beat the US into surrender in 12 months, there was no way they could win, no way they could match the industrial might of US.

I bet if Iraq didn't have any oil, no one would give a rat's *** if they had chemical/bio/nuclear weapons, at least not to the point of trying to go to war under any pretext. The US has been coveting middle east oil for a long, long time. This is just the most recent episode. Bush is a typical Republican, catering to big business and the military, screwing the common man and the environment in the process. The sooner he is out of office, the better off the world will be.

[MAN OF STEEL]

I think this is very interesting listening to all of the thoughts
on this war that is going to happen from you civilians. Im sure you all know,
all of us Marines are waiting for the word to go north into Iraq to kick some a**!
But remember, it is not soley for the fact that we love to kill,
its the fact that our Commander in Chief, the honorable
Mr. George Bush has ordered us to kuwait in stand by for the war
in Iraq. If one Marine is here, we all want to be here!
Yes, we are all fighting for the freedom of the united states
and the pursuit of happiness, but that is not all.
The reason we really fight is for that Infantry Marine on our right and left. That is what we fight for, it may not seem much to you civilians, but the Marine Corps is a brother hood and you will find no place like it. Not the Army, not the Navy, not the Air Force...
NO WHERE! We go through the same pain and tears, joy and smiles, we sweat and bleed together, everything we do is as a team. Thats why the Marine Corps is so succesful. Nobody fights
like us and nobody will leave dents in history books like we do!
nobody! I know i came a little off the topic, but my point is,
Marines dont have a choice. Some join to kill, some join to
get out of their bad teenage life. We all end up fighting
for the same reason, one another! That, is the ultimate reason to fight!
We were sent here to get a job done and we would rather
have our brothers on our side go home to his family than us go home to ours! That is the bond between Marines that will never be broken and keep the United States and all of the UN
forces safe! Think what you want about the war, it is going
to happen regardless. Saddam has armament capable of
disabling all the surrounding countries of Iraq!
Will he do it? Not if the Marines have anything to do with it!
I am not going to be the one to wait and see!
All of you out there that are for the war..., thank you very much.
All of us love to hear that and it fuels our motivation every day!
The Marines will not fail! Saddam, your fuse is running short mother f*****!
You better say your f****** prayers a** hole!
the Marines are coming and you have no place to go!
Millions of people have suffered and we are here to stop that.
Try to scare the Marines with you nuclear biological chemical warfare! We are well beyond prepared! Some will fall,
but that is a part of war you have to suck the f*** up. Its ok to feel sorry for yourself, because I sure as hell would if i was in the impact area of the Marines!
Do what you want because you will pay well in blood! Your time here is done f*****!
LETS GO TO WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAN OF STEEL
0331 MACHINE GUNNER
COMMANDO CAMP, KUWAIT
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS

BEAUTY AND PEACE IS BROUGHT FROM THE BLOOD SHED AND PAIN OF WAR!

[Sir Hiss]

J-Riley-OK your are sort of right. the plan was called the Tanaka Plan. It itself was a plane to put basically all of Eastern Asia under THEIR control. But the Japanese themselves had other plans not exactly written in the Tanaka plan. Even you mention it. They agreed that they needed to get the United States to surrender. IN OTHER WORDS, in 12 months they wanted to have control over the United States ("control" in its lightest form"). Even more so, they were prepared to fight and take control of anyone else who tried to stop them. This is what I meat when I said they wanted to take over of the whole world. Not neccessarily occupy and destory, but to have control of. NOw I dont think there was a question as to whether we could defeat Japan or not, you said too. BUT there was still a question as to how long it could take and how many lives were at stake. They were never "really close" to defeating them. The biggest reason of all being, we simply needed to get on the island and there was no way we were prepared to do that. It would have taken serious time to do that. All I am saying is that we all knew that we could beat Japan, but we were never close to beating them until the bombs. And that was the poin I was trying to make to the other guy. The overall point being: He said there was no need to drop the nuclear bombs and I think both you and I agree that there was an absolute need, primarily to save lives.

BYt the way I hope you listened to Powell this morining and mabey that will change you mind a little. Bush, like Truman, is interested in saving lives. We dont get any of our oil from Iraq. If we really wanted to start a war just to get oil, we would go after Venezuela where we get it all anyway. No offense anybody, but they would be a whole lot easier than Iraq. If you still dont agree with this pending war, I hope Iraq gets one of thier unmanned jets and flys it over your neighborhood and sprays some toxin all over and mabey when you see all of you friends suffering and dying, you will say, mabey we should have taken these away from Saddam.

Sorry. I dont really want this to happen to you or any one else, but is that what it is going to take to get you to understand what were are really trying to do? I hope not.

[Them and Us]

over confidence=complacency . i do wish you the best of luck but you say you are fighting for the freedom of the United States and the pursuit of happiness. The United States is under no attack and is not ruled by a tyrant and stripped of its freedoms. i do not particulaly like Gearge W. Bush but i would not call him a tyrant. Fighting for the pursuit of happiness? were you not happy at home? at more peaceful times. War does not always bring Beauty and Peace. what was that old Wilfred Owen poem ending something like " The old lie: Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori." I believe that statement translates into " The old lie: It is fitting and honorable to die for ones country." He was a soldier in World War 1 mind you . I do not mean to offend and i believe that I might have, so i apologize. i could not help but reply. this turned out to be a post moredirected towards war in general than the war in iraq. oh well.

[tHeGiNo]

LoL sir hiss you took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to mention that if it was not known, Iraq is not the only place in the world who has a steady oil supply...

And to man of steel, I highly highly doubt you are a marine, no offence however. You just to not speak like a member of the marines, more like an immature individual posing as a marine officer. I may be wrong, and if so I apologize however I think a marine has much more respect for war. And if I am correct would you please grow up and have more respect for the lives of others. Again if I am wrong I really apologize however I do not think The Marines will not fail! Saddam, your fuse is running short mother f*****! are the words of an honorable marine...

[shaggybill]

tHeGiNo, I dont know how much you know about the Marine life, but pretty language isnt a priority there. Also, most marines know about how things really are in this world. They don't live the undisturbed, sheltered life in Surburban, America.

Which is another point. There are probably people who arent qualified to have an opinion about the welfare of the Iraqi civilization and whether or not we should go to war.. Some people probably think its like another USA, where everything is just hunky-dorry. Well, its not. And the sooner everybody realizes this, the better.

I'm not talking about people here. I'm talking about everywhere in the U.S.
------------------------------


Man of Steel, I dont know if you are a marine or not, but if you are, I hope you kick Saddam's butt.

[MAN OF STEEL]

Shaggybill..., Thanks man! We love to hear stuff like that.
Like I said before, it fuels our motivation in this s*** hole!

THEGIONO- I really dont know what to say?????????
I have never had to prove to someone that I am a Marine and I do not need to!
No, I am not an officer in the Marine Corps.
I am a noncommisioned officer( enlisted Marine).
Officers are not machine gunners or any other weapons marine
for that matter. They are platoon commanders, company commanders, battalion commanders, regimental commanders,
division commanders, marine expeditionary force commanders,
and then commandants of the marine corps. All that kind of s***! Officers just look over the units, its the enlisted Marines who make s*** happen.
Is it my bad mouth? All Marines, I say again, all Marines
have bad mouths. Yes, even the females. I dont know much about them because we dont have any in the infantry(grunts).
Dont worry about affending me! I dont get that way.
You have to have thick skin to be in the Corps, or else
everyone would eat you alive here. I know I might sound
immature, thats because when we have down time we are, but rest assured, when it is time to get the job done the world
can count on us. We hardly have any down time to ourself, so when we do we take the time to f*** around like we have no worries. When its time to work, you have Marines as young as 17
years old with an entire grunt company and sometimes more
lives in their hands. If that young private or private first class 0331 does not get that 240G up when the 0311's are maneuvering through the objective, an entire company of grunts
(roughly 170 infantry marines) will be taken out!
All it takes is a 1 second lull in machine gun fire to allow the enemy to gain fire superiority. Once that happens, its all over!
FIRE SUPERIORITY! Thats what wins fire fights.
The average life span of a machine gunner when a fire fight begins is 8... 8 seconds. Respect the lives of others?
My enemy? I respect their abilities, but not their life!
Being soft and emotional about s*** like that during a time of peace will cause you to break in the time of war.
I am a Corporal( non commisioned officer ), leader of Marines and going to be a Sergeant next month! Im pretty stoked about that!
I am confident in my young Marines and have no doubt that they
will do nothing short of phenominal during this s*** in Iraq.
They depend on me, I depend on them, its a team effort.
There is no individuals. You win as a team, you f*** up as a team!
If you still dont believe me, you can contact me by email-
RIOSJL@1MARDIVDF.USMC.MIL- That stands for, 1st Marine Division Division Forward.United States Marine Corps.Military

THEM AND US- No offence taken, no worries.
We train and fight for the PURSUIT of happiness. Yes, I am very happy at home with my snakes, but if the United States does not act against actions of foreign countries before they are made I will not be happy,
or anybody else for that matter. We cant lower our national security posture and allow them to f*** us up.
Its happened before and it does not need to happen again!
For everyone at sSnakeSs.com..., sleep well,
thanks again for your time.
MAN OF STEEL
0331 MACHINE GUNNER
COMMANDO CAMP, KUWAIT
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS

[tHeGiNo]

Wow I do not know what to say, I sincerely apologize. I guess my mind is not in reality and do not realize what is really going on in this small small world. Hey if you have the time to answer this question, why do you think Bush wants to start war with Iraq? Do you believe it IS actually for the security of the United States or is it because they want Sadaam to drop his status and elect a new presedent which would be the puppet of the United States. I honestly do not feel it is due to the oil as there are many other places in the world with an oil suppply...God bless you and if, by no means am I wishing on it, but if war does happen and you find yourself on the battle field may God bless you and I wish the best of luck. I just hope sadaam just gives up because personally I feel Bush will not give up and unecessary lives will be lost.

[MAN OF STEEL]

Hey, thanks bro!
I cant really talk right now. I have a s*** load of stuff to do.
I will get back to you in a couple of days.
I only get on a computer every so often. The Marines stay in the field of s*** hole Iraq and we only get to the computer when we go to the Army base( camp doha ).
Those army guys get everything nice. As a matter of fact
everyone does, but not the Marine Corps.
We get all the gear the Army gets rid of.
Anyway, ill talk to you soon man! Thanks,like I said, I dont get offendid so dont worry about it!
And by the way..., WE ARE GOING TO WAR!
Remember I told you that. Sooner than you think!
God bless,
MAN OF STEEL
0331 MACHINE GUNNER
COMMANDO CAMP, KUWAIT
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS

[rethius]

I did not expect to find ANTI war protests going on in a Snake
forum!
I agree with "anygiven60", I cannot stand when people try to influence others decisions! If countries are willing to sacrifice billions of dollars, human lives, etc, they usually have a pretty good reason! You spoke of WW2, well look what happend to germany, they were smothered to death by sanctions, did that stop them?? WWII could have been avoided if the west did not just sit on their asses and watch as a country grew more and more dangerous. Once a fire is started it will just keep on spreading, unless it is quickly put out! The same with countries like Iraq! I wonder if you would have the same Anti war thoughts if your whole family was killed by Anthrax, or Botulism, OR even Serin gas (products of wich Iraq does have)? Bet you would have been all for a war then!
But I do not Agree with how the United States abuse their power!
Seems like a new aged Roman Empire to me, troops stationed all around the world, influencing smaller countries, intervening on other countires business (wars)!
Tha, Tha , thats all I hav ta say bout that!!
-Jeff

[Gregg M]

What we are doing in the gulf is a great thing....... They are the ones who helped finance the attack on the world trade center..... Those of you who do not live in New York will never understand...... Those of you who did not lose anyone in the WTC bombing will never understand....... These mosters need to be delt with....... I cant stand these people that dont agree with what we are doing...... Do you feel bad for these terrorist???? If you do you should go live with them in their messed up crappy poverty stricken terrorist infested country........ I hope we whipe them off the face of the planet........ What will it take to open your eyes people..... Maybe an attack on your city??? I support my president and our wonderful militaty 100%

[sSNAKESs.com]

It is plain ignorant to put the blame of a entire country because of the terrorism that has came from there. There are a small percentage of people in that country who supported the terrorist, and a even smaller percentage of people who live in North America from there who support it. This war is unavoidable and it is going to happen, but the war is with Saddam and his Military it is not against, and should not be against the general population of Iraq and Afganistan.

Lets also keep this thread clean, or it wont remain up for much longer.

[Gregg M]

What do you know????? Did you lose anyone in the bombing???? You have no clue...... You should delete this post....... All it is going to do is make alot of people mad...... Especialy the Americans that come to this site...... Not to mention the people from NYC......There were thousands of families that were destroyed by this and down talking it is not a good thing to do especialy when there are people here that lost friends and family to this....... God bless America and president Bush and the US armed forces......

[sSNAKESs.com]

Your actually right, this thread should be closed and will be closed, its fine for people to hold discussions and debates but ones like this there are no rights and no wrongs and can only cause conflict which is not wanted in the community.

Thread is closed.