BHP clutches 3 and 4

[Derek Roddy]

Victoria gave us 9 pearly whites.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20BHPs/DSCN3326.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20BHPs/DSCN3326.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20BHPs/DSCN3327.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20BHPs/DSCN3327.jpg.html)


Here's the pairing...80 Mile Beach Westerns
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/victoria2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/victoria2.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20BHPs/noodles2-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20BHPs/noodles2-1.jpg.html)

And, this bad picture is Mrs Howle. Took it with the camera phone and forgot to take a good one with the camera. Was too excited to think.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20BHPs/IMG_0790.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20BHPs/IMG_0790.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20BHPs/DSCN3325.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20BHPs/DSCN3325.jpg.html)

Here is this pairing... Axanthic to Axanthic het
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20BHPs/MrsHowle2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20BHPs/MrsHowle2.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/high%20contrast%20bhps/titan1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/high%20contrast%20bhps/titan1.jpg.html)


Woo Hoo...gonna be a long 65 days!!!

D

[Wama]

Congrats, and hope all goes well with incubation

[NextMorph]

Wow, that is fantastic! Up here it's certainly not common to hear about someone with 4 BHP clutches!! :| I'm sure it's not common there as well. :P Such wonderful snakes. Thanks for posting!!

[Freebody]

I don't even know of anyone in Canada breeding them to be honest. I hope they all hatch out good and healthy, with any luck some twins :)

[NextMorph]

I know of two people in Alberta working with them. :)

Mark of GoneSnakee and
Tracey of Celtic Serpents

:) Anyways.. 4 clutches is absolutely awesome. I can only imagine your excitement, Derek!

[h3h]

Awesome, congrats!

- h3

[smy_749]

Do we get special forum friend discounts?

[NextMorph]

Do we get special forum friend discounts?

Hehehe.. I like the way you think. :)

[smy_749]

Hehehe.. I like the way you think. :)

Your just lucky I'm not into balls, and no from canada or I'd be asking you for the forum discount too :P

[NextMorph]

Hahaha. Hey.. i breed things other than balls. And we're your closest neighbor!! ;) :P

[smy_749]

Hahaha. Hey.. i breed things other than balls. And we're your closest neighbor!! ;) :P

I'm only like 8 hours driving from canada I think. I live in northern CT near the mass border. :-P

[NextMorph]

Yes.. quite close to Canada. Unfortunately.. the opposite side from where I am. :P Hahaha.

[smy_749]

Yes.. quite close to Canada. Unfortunately.. the opposite side from where I am. :P Hahaha.

Thats ok I don't enjoy traveling by car when I can just take an airplane haha 23 seperate trips on airplanes in the past 4 years, and only 2 of them were the U.S. (california and hawaii) haha tomorrow will be 24!


Derek is your axanthic the male or the female? Hopefully you get a high percentage of axanthic babays. After you minus the ones you give me, you should atleast break even!

[Derek Roddy]

Wow, that is fantastic! Up here it's certainly not common to hear about someone with 4 BHP clutches!! :| I'm sure it's not common there as well. :P Such wonderful snakes. Thanks for posting!!

Thanks, yeah, it's not often you see keepers getting more than 1 or 2 clutches each year. Myself and my buddy Tom Keogan are producing more of these animals than anybody else I can think of ATM.
There are things about this species that work with other species but, kill BHPs (like over feeding).
That's why you don't see many of them being produced. Keepers are too eager to do what is written in the books, condition females, get them up to "breeder weight" and, not what they observe themselves.

I always observe the animals and both myself and Tom has made changes to the way we keep these animals that have allowed us to be more successful than most other keepers following the books.
A lot of it is the sheer numbers we have. I have over 100 BHP and Tom does as well. So, our success could be just based of the numbers we have but, I don't think so as the same females are producing great for us over and over...when most keepers haven't accomplished that so much.

I don't even know of anyone in Canada breeding them to be honest. I hope they all hatch out good and healthy, with any luck some twins :)

Mickey at Pro Pythons has the nicest ones up there. He's got some stellar western types and another buddy of mine Mike Aldrey (sp?) has possible het albinos from Piet in Europe. Neither one of them have produced anything though.

Do we get special forum friend discounts?

Of course! Haha. Although, like most all my clutches...I'll be keeping almost all of them back for my breeding trials!


Derek is your axanthic the male or the female? Hopefully you get a high percentage of axanthic babays. After you minus the ones you give me, you should atleast break even!

The male is the Axanthic in both pairings number 4 clutch (and number 5 which I haven't posted yet), he bred to his mother and a sister.
Fingers are crossed.

Cheers everyone, more to come....hopefully.

If anybody has any questions about the BHP...please feel free to ask. I'll inform ya the best way I can.

D

[Freebody]

funny I know mark and Mickey, I have purchased snakes off both of them, yet I didn't know they bread bhp lol I have not seen them produce any in the few years I have known of them unfortunately. I am a huge fan of these beauties. your doing the world a great justice lol I just wish you were doing it in Canada :P

[Derek Roddy]

funny I know mark and Mickey, I have purchased snakes off both of them, yet I didn't know they bread bhp lol I have not seen them produce any in the few years I have known of them unfortunately. I am a huge fan of these beauties. your doing the world a great justice lol I just wish you were doing it in Canada :P

Well, they haven't bred em yet but, they've both had them for several years. Hopefully they'll find their formula and get some in the market up there.

Cheers,
D

[NextMorph]

I'd love to know more about what the differences are in keeping them compared to what to books say. Not that I'm keeping them but more just for general knowledge's sake. Also.. you just never know. Anyways, I'm not sure that's the kind of info. you were offering to provide... maybe it's a secret. :P :)

Keeping over 100... :| ... I don't know of anyone keeping more than a few. That's crazy. I'm impressed. I can tell I'll be looking to follow your posts in the future. :P :)

Again.. congrats! This really is an accomplishment having such success with BHPs. Good job.

[Derek Roddy]

Thanks Mandie

I've always wanted to work with the BHP and always heard the stories of keepers having them but, never hatching any babies. A lot of guys would get eggs but, then the eggs would never make it full term or, they never hatched and there where fully formed babies inside..dead.
Then there is the most common situation in which a female will produce a few clutches and then never again. This is what has happened with most keepers. They bred their animals for a few years and then the entire collection stops producing.
I always wondered why this was the case until I started seeing some of these other keepers animals then I realized....these animals are way to big (fat)

In the wild the BHP diet is almost entirely reptiles. Fierce snakes, browns, frilled lizards, bearded dragons, etc. The mammals that are available to them are not the fat filled rodents we feed in captivity.

So, the short of the story is that large food items kill BHP in about 6 years time and, if it doesn't...it renders them useless for breeding.
Their systems aren't not designed for the fat content that exist in these farmed rodents.
They die of fatty liver disease (esp females) kidney failure or tumors related to the over feeding of large fat filled rats.

BHPs are not ambush predators like a carpet or scrub, etc. They are active hunters in which they are looking for food daily.
In the wild they would be grabbing various lizards,small monitors and snakes....none of which have large fat storages. Because of the nutritional value of the animals they eat....they need to eat often.
This is how keepers overfeed them. They are constantly on the search for food and keepers think that if they give them large items, they are doing the snake justice. they aren't.
If you have a BHP that just sits in it's cage from digesting big meals....it will die!
Also power feeding to produce at 18 months is another way to kill them quickly.

I think of them as an oversized kingsnake. They have more in common with the colubrids than they do pythons (that damn pelvic girdle keeps classified as pythons) but, there are several herp scientist in Australia that want to take them out of the python classification entirely.

I also believe that the diet plays a direct roll in how well the babies will do.

I feed all types of food items to my BHPs...but, I never feed anything bigger than small rats. The difference is that they get them every 2 days. (this replicates more of how they feed in the wild anyway) In addition to the rats they also eat fish, chicken parts, eggs, etc... so, I try to give them the most varied diet possible and, I think that has lead to me having the success I'm having with them.

It's like any other animal really, just pay attention to them and study their natural activity and most will do just fine. But, feeding animals prey items with loads of stuff they don't get in their natural environment....is just asking for trouble...in any species.

Cheers,
D

[NextMorph]

Thanks a bunch for your lengthy answer!!
That definitely makes sense. Would you recommend the same for Woma pythons? I've read about them preferring smaller sized prey items and more frequently and so I currently do that. However.. I haven't ever tried feeding them fish, eggs, chicken, etc.! Would you recommend me trying? I know they're from different areas of Australia generally, with some overlap, but they do certainly have many similarities, sharing the same genus.

Do you keep womas as well?

[Derek Roddy]

I recommend the same for all your animals..but, it isn't necessary. Womas aren't affected by it too much as they have more rodents in their natural habitat but, overall...I don't think any animal should be "stuff to gills" as they say.
Certain types of animals are certainly built for that type of eating. I just know how I feel when I've eaten too much and, I sure that having such a big meal in your stomach isn't that comfortable.
Plus, the animals grow faster when they have smaller meals more often.

Yes, I keep a few Womas around. I posed a thread with some in it around here somewhere. Haha.

Cheers,
D

[Derek Roddy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/high%20contrast%20bhps/DSC06782.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/high%20contrast%20bhps/DSC06782.jpg.html)

Haha.

D

[NextMorph]

Nice!!! I've tried offering other snakes fish before, but never my womas for some reason. What type of fish do you feed? And what kind of eggs/where do you get them from?

I'm eager to try now.. lol.

[Aaron_S]

Well, they haven't bred em yet but, they've both had them for several years. Hopefully they'll find their formula and get some in the market up there.

Cheers,
D

Isbell I believe has bred them I believe. He's out West.

Problem is, despite there not being any real supply for them up here, there isn't a serious demand.

I was recently offered 2.2 adults. I don't have the room or real interest in them at this time but he couldn't offload them at all.

Canada always likes to say it has interest in different species but when push comes to shove the people never actually purchase them.

[Derek Roddy]

Isbell I believe has bred them I believe. He's out West.

Problem is, despite there not being any real supply for them up here, there isn't a serious demand.

I was recently offered 2.2 adults. I don't have the room or real interest in them at this time but he couldn't offload them at all.

Canada always likes to say it has interest in different species but when push comes to shove the people never actually purchase them.

There's some demand for em as each year....I've get at least 35/50 inquiries asking If I could import to Canada.
I think the biggest part of the issue up there is that there isn't anyone who has produced enough of them to make nicer ones. Pretty much standard BHPs up there....and when you can look at the internet...."standard" doesn't cut it. Haha.
Most keepers that are interested in BHP know that buying adults is a 99% chance you're throwing your money in the toilet. Knowing what I know about the species...I would NEVER buy an adult from another keeper.
Every adult I've bought from someone else has died or never produced for me.
So, that's the biggest issue for Canada and BHP...there aren't any bloodlines up there that keepers want just yet...they want the Axanthic stuff, or the Pinstripes, Tigers, Yellow Jackets, etc....none of that exists up there and, the nicest looking pair that's up in Canada (the west pair that Micky has) has yet to breed for him....And, the poss Albino that Mike has has yet to breed for him.
There are a few keepers that have bred them up there though...it's just that the animals are nothing special compared to what you see on the internet.

Soon as more blood gets up there (gonna have to come from Europe as nobody here in the US can export BHPs.) I believe they'll have a bigger market.
The market for them here in the states isn't that big either though....not too many keepers are willing to spend 3000 on a pair of snakes in this economy.

Funny story, I had a keeper about 4 years ago pass on buying some BHP from me (he was going to spend 3500 for this nice pair I had). Instead he bought a 1 .3 (3 normal females) group of Zebra carpets he spent 7500 on.
Well, this year he finally produced a clutch and only one of his females went for him. Well, he called me about 2 weeks ago saying that he's seen people selling visible zebras for 700 with one guy offering hatchlings for 500. It will take him 3 more years to get his money back. He asked what I was selling BHP pairs for this year........



I said 3500 Hahaha.

D

[Derek Roddy]

Nice!!! I've tried offering other snakes fish before, but never my womas for some reason. What type of fish do you feed? And what kind of eggs/where do you get them from?

I'm eager to try now.. lol.

Fish, I get flash frozen...any type of bait fish seems to work.
The eggs are just store bought chicken eggs (free range) but, they don't get the eggs that often.
Rats make up the majority of the meals....they're just small meals.

D

[NextMorph]

Hmmmm... cool. I think I might try it. I can't imagine the snake feeling inclined to eat a chicken egg as I would think it doesn't have that 'food' smell. But I guess some do! Pretty cool.

[Derek Roddy]

Yeah, there's only a few of my snakes that will actually eat eggs.
Fish is far game for all of mine though. Haha.

D