Feeding Practices Discussion

[monitorlizard]

What do we base our feeding practices off of?

-Do we try to mimic their natural diet or do we feed artificially made products manufactured to fit the animals needs, or a compromise of both?

-If you feed their natural diet, would the ratio of different food items fed have to mimic that of the stomach contents of wild animals and/or animal observations?

-If an animal eats arthropods such as crickets in the wild, is it suitable to feed it shrimp, organisms that are very different from crickets though still arthropods?

-Do we have to feed what they find in nature regardless of the nutrition facts, or do we feed food items that have the best nutrition regardless of it being natural, artificial, or part of their natural diet.

-How frequently/what volume of food should you feed? As much as the animal can eat in one sitting, or frequent and few feedings?

-What are the difference between feeding live and frozen?

-Does it matter if prey items are gutloaded prior to feeding?

-Should the animals be fed on/in a plate or bowl, or should the prey be left in the cage sporadically placed for the animal to forage for?

[smy_749]

What do we base our feeding practices off of?

-Do we try to mimic their natural diet or do we feed artificially made products manufactured to fit the animals needs, or a compromise of both?

We don't even know if the wild diet is the ideal diet. They are fed what we know works. Artificially made...no. The successful keepers feed whole prey organic items.

-If you feed their natural diet, would the ratio of different food items fed have to mimic that of the stomach contents of wild animals and/or animal observations?

No it doesn't have to mimic the wild. Plenty of keepers feed only dubia or only rodents and produce healthy animals.

-If an animal eats arthropods such as crickets in the wild, is it suitable to feed it shrimp, organisms that are very different from crickets though still arthropods?

I don't know of any risks or reasons why not, so long as they are organic as infernalis told me. Its about the essential nutrients they need. For example, nutrients X Y Z provided in the form of a cricket. If Shrimp can provide X Y Z without harmful side effects, why not?

-Do we have to feed what they find in nature regardless of the nutrition facts, or do we feed food items that have the best nutrition regardless of it being natural, artificial, or part of their natural diet.

I don't get it.

-How frequently/what volume of food should you feed? As much as the animal can eat in one sitting, or frequent and few feedings?

Again, this is a broad and debatable topic. If you wish to mimic nature, then maybe you should let your monitor die. Add predators, add harmful weather and disease etc. etc. Not everything should be mimicked from nature, because alot of it is no good for your lizard. Where to draw the line while balancing good health at the same time, we don't know.

-What are the difference between feeding live and frozen?

Live is unsafe. Frozen kills some harmful junk in the prey. Live may result in having a violent animal on your hands. Nutritionally, no clue what the freezing process does.

-Does it matter if prey items are gutloaded prior to feeding?
Yes it matters. If you feed your prey junk, your feeding your monitor junk. IF you feed your prey good stuffs, you feed your monitor good stuffs.

-Should the animals be fed on/in a plate or bowl, or should the prey be left in the cage sporadically placed for the animal to forage for?

Do both, why not.

[Starbuck]

i think it depends on what animal you are feeding. i assume you are talking about lizards/insectivores, not snakes.

I think it is our responsibility to feed as natural a diet as possible under the circumstances, but we can only go so far. If we were to be truly adhered to a natural diet, in turn we would have to feed our FEEDERS naturally. This means a wide range of detritus etc for crix and roaches, and veg for snails and other mollusks, insect larvae for fishes etc... At some point we as keepers have to draw a line (the same line we draw when saying a viv of AxBxC is sufficient, while DxExF is not)

This also goes into humane practice for both the snake and the prey. Monitors (and snakes) are certainly not always kind to the prey they kill (if fed live), so it is our responsibility to be humane to the prey animal (killing it using CO2, or buying F/T) and the monitor (by removing the risk of injury by prey, since we have removed the animals ability to escape it's prey if it isnt hungry).
Hopefully this makes sense?

Baisically, what amy said lol :)

[infernalis]

The "natural" diet does not really apply, I would say "naturalistic"

Many of the feeders that monitors eat in the wild would be impractical or downright impossible to obtain.

I don't feed "artificial products" either, only live or formerly live PREY items.

In other words, Chicks, mice, rats, rabbits, worms, roaches, arthropods, etc.

If it's in a can or a jar, I don't buy it.

[murrindindi]

I`m totally with Wayne......

[Pirarucu]

Me too, he hit the nail on the head.

[monitorlizard]

I know that many tegu keepers grind bones into bone meal/powder and mix that into various ground meats for calcium along with various fish oil tablets for vitamins and minerals. They say that it mimics feeding whole prey because it contains the bone and oils.
What is your opinion on this with Varanids?

The "natural" diet does not really apply, I would say "naturalistic"

Many of the feeders that monitors eat in the wild would be impractical or downright impossible to obtain.

I don't feed "artificial products" either, only live or formerly live PREY items.

In other words, Chicks, mice, rats, rabbits, worms, roaches, arthropods, etc.

If it's in a can or a jar, I don't buy it.
Wayne, could you please elaborate on this? While I agree with you, many people need proof before they convert/alter their husbandry.

[Pirarucu]

Why not just feed whole prey? Less work involved and the ratios are all correct. That's just an example of creating more work where it isn't needed and isn't beneficial.

[monitorlizard]

Why not just feed whole prey? Less work involved and the ratios are all correct. That's just an example of creating more work where it isn't needed and isn't beneficial.
I don't know lol :)
I think it has to do with it being more convenient for them or something?
I'll see if I can find a thread that talks about it.

[smy_749]

I just noticed the majority of my first response was inside monitorlizards original quote, so everyone probably thinks I just responded " do both" . Woops. lol

[Pirarucu]

Wayne, could you please elaborate on this? While I agree with you, many people need proof before they convert/alter their husbandry.He is saying he does not feed bits and pieces (e.g. chopped liver) but only feeds whole animals or chopped up whole animals.

[monitorlizard]

He is saying he does not feed bits and pieces (e.g. chopped liver) but only feeds whole animals or chopped up whole animals.

Yes that is what he feeds, but there is no explanation as to why?
I could tell people you should feed your Varanid rocks(lol) but not whole prey. People could blindly listen to me but many others would require an explanation as to why they should listen to me to convince them.
*Again not advocating you feed anything rocks*

[infernalis]

Why is the easy part, whole animals equals COMPLETE nutrition, Variety means BROAD SPECTRUM complete nutrition.

Whole animals (or chopped up whole animals) will never need suppliments to be "complete"

Why on earth would anyine WANT to spend hours chopping up turkey, vitamins, bone meal, etc when a simple mouse will accomplish the same exact goal, with none of the frogging around BS of mixing crap together to get nutrition??

Here is one meal for two Savannah Monitors. everything they need, NO fuss.

http://www.savannahmonitor.net/husbandry/champ.jpg

[smy_749]

No seasoning on those?

[nepoez]

No fuss, but lots of fuzz. lol I just had to haha


Here is one meal for two Savannah Monitors. everything they need, NO fuss.

http://www.savannahmonitor.net/husbandry/champ.jpg

[nepoez]

I know I asked this before but not sure if I got into it enough so here I go again.

1.) If a mouse is from a breeder who just gives them crappy food, will the mouse still be complete?

2.) Should we feed the mouse good food before feeding to monitors?

3.) If the mouse is complete, do we still need to feed insects(for savs). I plan to feed insects anyeways cuzz I like watching them chase crix, but just wondering.

[Danimal]

I know I asked this before but not sure if I got into it enough so here I go again.

1.) If a mouse is from a breeder who just gives them crappy food, will the mouse still be complete?

2.) Should we feed the mouse good food before feeding to monitors?

3.) If the mouse is complete, do we still need to feed insects(for savs). I plan to feed insects anyeways cuzz I like watching them chase crix, but just wondering.


I think this is where you need to use a little common sense. Not all breeders, pet shops, people, ect... are the same, obviously. A mouse or any animal kept under poor conditions would be a poor specimen.

To answer you first question yes, if by complete you mean whole. However if it were kept poorly it will be inferior to an animal that is kept optimally.



If there were an economical, nutritionally complete commercial alternative for monitors, I would use it. If my monitor would eat it. Why not?

[monitorlizard]

Would it be fair to say you can feed shrimp to smaller lizards that eat arthropods such as crickets?

[infernalis]

Would it be fair to say you can feed shrimp to smaller lizards that eat arthropods such as crickets?

Shrimp, Crab, crayfish (crawdadas) & Lobster are in fact arthropods.

So to me, they qualify as bugs.

[Danimal]

One of the things I have been researching is aquaponics. Not for my animals but for my wife and I, also as a fun project. After reading this it occured to me that would be a great way to raise organic greens and fish for different animals. You can raise mud bugs this way as well. No chemicals used to do this at all.

[nepoez]

One of the things I have been researching is aquaponics. Not for my animals but for my wife and I, also as a fun project. After reading this it occured to me that would be a great way to raise organic greens and fish for different animals. You can raise mud bugs this way as well. No chemicals used to do this at all.

please share more details!