Skin grossness- milk snake

[Starbuck]

So its been a week since i got demeter, and she literally has not come out of her humid hide at all (that i have seen, no sphagnum phaffed about)... So i decided to check on her, and take her out to do a once over on her...
And she is going into shed (BIG TIME!). Eyes blue, dull as a rock (i thought she was dead she looked so grey when i opened up the viv :no: ), etc.
I took some pictures of her gross skin lesions, to document any changes after she finishes shedding sometime next week. If anyone has any theories as to what caused them, please let me know!!

Right now i am letting them be, after the shed i may try some betadine washes, or if they look oozy i'll get her to the vets.

Random question: what should the optimal temp be for her warm area? I have a CHE and a white light on the hot end, ambient for the cool, and my temp gun says mid-90s on the SURFACE of her humid hide... so im assuming its like a rainforest inside of it :P Should i move the heat elements so the humid hide is further away, or do you think moist and hot is exactly what she needs?

Also, check out the picture of my boyfriend holding her, he held her right against his body, and he is 5' 7" O_o she is huge! Id say she is darn close to 5 feet.

[smy_749]

Typically the humid hides are placed on the cool end I think.

[Lankyrob]

I put my humid hides in the middle, dont want them too warm or too cold imo

[Mark Taylor]

That does not look good mate I would get her to the vets sooner rather than later.
Keep us posted.

[slowhite03]

why not take out the moist hide and see if shes shed. if i remember correctly she was a rescue from a bad home correct? she probably had a few bad sheds in her days.

[Starbuck]

She hasn't shed yet and I think the moist hide is doing her a world of good right now. I'm going to make her appt for late next week, hopefully by then she will have shed and I can offer her a f/t mouse before the stress of the vets. She refused the brained ft mouse I left in her tank overnight the other day, but she's so blue I'm not surprised.

Will move the lamps away from her hide for now, shoot for kid 80s. Will keep yall poosted after the shed etc.

Yes, she was from a less than ideal home. I have had her for one week

[Aaron_S]

Those look like older marks. See how they look after the shed.

[Starbuck]

She is shedding now! I saw the loopy shed skin through the side of her humid hide, so will check on her tomorrow am to see how she did.

Should i take the humid hide out if she is all done tomorrow? She has other places to hide; i just havnt seen her use them. Since i'm not sure what her skin will look like post-shed, i dont want it to stay moist and suppurating through the weekend (i will be away till sunday) if it should be drying out.
Also, i weighed her today, 914 grams (!!!!) thats just over 2 lbs :)

[smy_749]

She is shedding now! I saw the loopy shed skin through the side of her humid hide, so will check on her tomorrow am to see how she did.

Should i take the humid hide out if she is all done tomorrow? She has other places to hide; i just havnt seen her use them. Since i'm not sure what her skin will look like post-shed, i dont want it to stay moist and suppurating through the weekend (i will be away till sunday) if it should be drying out.
Also, i weighed her today, 914 grams (!!!!) thats just over 2 lbs :)

Haha thats funny, my GTP with stuck shed just started right now too! The race is on !

[Mark Taylor]

How did the shed go?

[Starbuck]

So I am waiting for my phone to upload the pictures, i will post them later today-
The shed went very well, it was still on in a few places, because she crawled into the humid hide and stayed there overnight; but one pass with a damp rag got all the skin off. There are a few single scales with stuck skin around the 'trouble spots' but i am not worried about them.

Her colors look awesome, she is a great rich red and black, however in a few areas around her head there is some old scarring evident; patches of scales (maybe 3 inches squared) with broader white boarders/skin between them and with irregular scales themselves. These seem very well healed, and may just be old injuries.

Most of the small defects in the scales have disappeared; there are a few TINY scabs left here and there, but i anticipated that it would take a few sheds to get her back to normal.

HOWEVER: the yuck yellow spots on her lower back (about 10 inches cranial from the vent); i have some nice pictures of both sides of the shed and her back. Large chunks of skin came off of both of these spots; though the new spots do seem much smaller than the old areas. There was some redness and bleeding (less than a paper cuts worth) on the edges, but the inside is white skin tissue and i cant see any scales there at all, or at least no fully formed ones. The area did seem to bother her when i flushed it out with dilute betadine. I also noticed a gross smell to the shed in that area, but NOT on her body. I pretty much wiped her whole lower half with a dilute (<10%) betadine rag.

Her tail seems the worst; as the last 3-4 inches past her vent had quite a bit of stuck shed, and the same foul smell. This was also the area with the highest persistence of old scabs. The shed here was also very thick (?) as if the skin was inflamed or infected (which i think it may have been), but most of it came off with a few passes of the betadine rag.

Over all she looks very good, and she was bright and alert as i was treating her. I removed about 60% of the sphagnum form the humid hide, since i will be away this weekend and didnt want her to be too moist. When i get back on sunday i will flush her again and take some more pics, and maybe try to offer her some food. (not in that order though ;) )

Pictures coming soon!

[Starbuck]

below are the pics:

first one is the section that was yellow, raised, and hard before; that plug came off with the shed and this is what was left.

clockwise: This is the skin section that came off of the previous picture.

the tail is, as you can see, kind of flaky etc, but i didnt want to bother her too much.

notice on the picture of her head that the scab below her right eye is now gone, though a paler patch of skin remains. The acts and looks much brighter now.

The random body pic shows the irregular part of her scales toward the head, with pale borders etc. I think this is mostly healed, just an old injury.


I will be taking her to the vet sometime next week.

[Mark Taylor]

She looks a lot better than she did before the shed keep doing what your doing and hopefully in a few more sheds she will be back to her old self.:)

As you said the tail is the worst part and seems sore in the pics.

[Aaron_S]

Keep things clean and sterile. I'd remove any bedding and use paper towel. You can replace the moss with moist paper towels in the humid hide.

[Starbuck]

Yup, she is on paper towel anyways for now. I will use PT in the humid hide as well once i get home. I was under the impression that peat moss was acidic anyways, thus inhibiting bacteria? Not sure where I am getting that from :-P
Vet appt is not until the 22nd, but that gives me time to try feeding her a few times and let her relax.

[slowhite03]

I think she was just in a bad place and now she is in a better place getting proper care. It's a long phase to get it better but it looks like she's making progress. I'm sure the vet will give you antibiotics of some sort

[Starbuck]

SHE ATE!!!!!!

Tried her with a F/T adult mouse, very warm, and she took it no problems on try one :) Chunked it down in no time and was looking for more :)

I still have a vet appt for her on the 22nd to get her skin/self checked out, but i am hugely relieved that she has eaten :) It looks like all she needed was some heat and some r&r :)

[Starbuck]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1jxWKNhHZY&feature=youtu.be

here is the tail end of the video of her eating her mouse :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1jxWKNhHZY&feature=youtu.be

[Mark Taylor]

Glad to here she ate for you great news.

[Starbuck]

took her out for another betadine treatment today (see attached pics of lesions), she did really well and looks good otherwise. No sign of a poop, but i am not concerned yet (she only ate one week ago). replaced the moss in her humid hide, and fed her 2 adult mice, and measured her.... FIVE FEET AND 2 INCHES!!! what a monster :)

Im a bit concerned that she is under weight, when i took her out it seemed her belly was super sucked in; concave when it should be flat or convex; hence the upped feed. I forgot to weigh her, so idk if she has changed form 914 grams :/ vet appt is next week :)

[Starbuck]

oops:
second pic is her on my boyfriends arm; she wasnt angry, just holding on, but she is so strong his veins started to pop out! Its really nice to have such a big snake around the house :)

[Mark Taylor]

Looks like she is recovering well any improvement on the tail?

[Starbuck]

tail looks about the same :/ definitely the worst part. I rinsed that with betadine as well... but will see what the vets say. She can move her tail all the way to the very tip, so i am confident its not involving the bones and nerves (prob not severe frostbite), i think its just a couple layers of yuck.

her feeding response is nuts, after she decides that yes, it IS food, she hits it like a brick and slams it around/against the viv for a bit, before chowing down :) would hate to get bit by her heh heh heh

[Mark Taylor]

My burm is the same except he doesn't wait to see if it's food he knows before I even open his rub, soon as it's open head out and bang, he is the only one I need to use feeding tongs for lol.

Hope the vet visit goes well on the 22nd:)

[Starbuck]

she pooped! As far as i know, this is the first one since feb :P it was a big smelly one too. She has also come out of her hide recently and started exploring the viv at night, so hooray for that :)
That should be it for the general bio posts until we go to the vets next week... thanks for bearing with me all :)

[Starbuck]

Demeter went to the vet yesterday, and here is what we found out:

She is blue to shed again... last shed was the first week of this month; so i am guessing she is playing catch up to get these sores all taken care of. I showed the vet my picture diary; and he was surprised at how well it was cleaning itself up. He agreed that the worst part at this time seemed to be the tail, and was somewhat concerned that it could turn septic and infect the rest of her body if left untreated. We took some dental radiographs to see if there was any involvement with the bone...
radiographs didnt show any inflammation in the bones (no infection), but the last three inches or so of the tail all of the bones were kinked up/down (looking from above, there was no change, looking laterally was a slight zig zag appearance). The vet didnt want to say one way or the other, but i think it was frostbite from being outside, and the tissue might actually be dead, so the tendons tightened up causing the bones to kink.
He also said the tip of the tail was necrotic, and would likely need to be amputated at some point in the future, but he wanted to wait and see the extent of the tissue damage before doing surgery.

We scrubbed her back lesions with betadine, and he send home ceftazidine injectable (IM) antibiotic every three days, and silver sulfadiazine ointment for the skin/tail surface (every day).

ALSO; all of the above, the exam, the X-rays, the drugs.... cost me 116 $... which really isnt that much in the grand scheme, as i now have enough burn cream for all my snakes lifetimes, and cool x rays, and a healthier snake. Lots of vets are in it to make a quick buck, but lots of other ones, especially those specializing in reptiles, realize that lots of owners DO have a budget, and are just trying to do the best for their animals.

That should be it for this thread barring any surgeries or unexpected events :)