the ultimate lightweight monitor enclosure

[deze69]

here it is

[Mark Taylor]

That looks good did you make it?
Does the floor inside got to the bottom?

[DeadlyDesires]

yall should know that he is planning on putting a NILE in here, that is 4 ft and this enclosure is only 6 ft long.. he thinks it will be fine.. because he has had his nile for 3 years and its only at 4 ft long. the op also refuses to see that he will need a larger enclosure. and doesn't think he needs soil at all.

[Mark Taylor]

Sometimes it's better to say nothing.

[DeadlyDesires]

Sometimes it's better to say nothing.


yea.. i hope he figures it out sooner rather than later.. he wouldn't post what kind of hold cage he has it in now. but i doubt its bigger than 6ft. even at 4 ft now technically speaking he should be in at least an 8 ft enclosure.

[Terranaut]

Sometimes it's better to say nothing.

Nothing :(

[murrindindi]

here it is


Hi, that would make a great bird cage, not much use for a Varanid because there`s no way to put any substrate in there.
What type of monitor is this supposed to be for?

[murrindindi]

Sometimes it's better to say nothing.

Sometimes it`s better to say something...... (Something).....

[DiscoPat]

It might hold a smaller monitor if you build a reinforced wooden base 2-3ft tall specifically for holding dirt.

I am assuming that top part is about 8x4x3.

You would also have to make sure every corner is sealed and that the doors create a nice sealed shut so that humidity and temperature will stay in.

Assuming the glass is double paned and able to hold in heat this might work.
If the glass is not it probably won't hold heat as well as it should and you'd have to surround it in wood insulating the whole thing.


Basically for a monitor you should probably just build a different enclosure. It would be easier.

Maybe use that for a different animal. I always thought it would be cool to get a couple crested geckos and put them in a huge enclosure.

[DeadlyDesires]

It might hold a smaller monitor if you build a reinforced wooden base 2-3ft tall specifically for holding dirt.

I am assuming that top part is about 8x4x3.

You would also have to make sure every corner is sealed and that the doors create a nice sealed shut so that humidity and temperature will stay in.

Assuming the glass is double paned and able to hold in heat this might work.
If the glass is not it probably won't hold heat as well as it should and you'd have to surround it in wood insulating the whole thing.


Basically for a monitor you should probably just build a different enclosure. It would be easier.

Maybe use that for a different animal. I always thought it would be cool to get a couple crested geckos and put them in a huge enclosure.

on another forum he said its 6long and 6tall..

[DeadlyDesires]

Hi, that would make a great bird cage, not much use for a Varanid because there`s no way to put any substrate in there.
What type of monitor is this supposed to be for?


for a nile monitor he has had for 3 years and is ONLY 4ft long.. hes also got a baby nile too...

[DiscoPat]

on another forum he said its 6long and 6tall..


So the top half is 6x3x3 maybe 6x4x3


Might be fit for an Ackie with a lot of adjustments.

Including the reinforced wood area on the botton to hold 2 feet of soil.

[DeadlyDesires]

So the top half is 6x3x3 maybe 6x4x3


Might be fit for an Ackie with a lot of adjustments.

Including the reinforced wood area on the bottom to hold 2 feet of soil.


no the whole thing both halves are 6tall 6 long and looks to be 4 deep... thats all together.. he said his nile doesn't need a 12 ft enclosure because hes only 4ft and it would be wasted space and he wont get any bigger...

IMO if he doesn't get bigger its probably because he has stunted his growth already having had it so long and it be so small..

[DiscoPat]

A Nile needs at least a 12ft enclosure. That enclosure could not be modified properly without a nearly complete overhaul to fit a nile.

I am saying ignore the bottom half, build a new bottom half out of wood. Reinforce the wood, fill that up with at least 2 feet of soil. Attach the top half, properly seal the entire enclosure, maybe insulate if the glass isn't thick.
And after all that is done, look into getting a smaller sized monitor.

But first the focus should be building a new enclosure for the Nile he already has.

[DeadlyDesires]

A Nile needs at least a 12ft enclosure. That enclosure could not be modified properly without a nearly complete overhaul to fit a nile.

I am saying ignore the bottom half, build a new bottom half out of wood. Reinforce the wood, fill that up with at least 2 feet of soil. Attach the top half, properly seal the entire enclosure, maybe insulate if the glass isn't thick.
And after all that is done, look into getting a smaller sized monitor.

But first the focus should be building a new enclosure for the Nile he already has.


yea i tried telling him that ... along with a lot of others as well..

[jhinton6932]

yall should know that he is planning on putting a NILE in here, that is 4 ft and this enclosure is only 6 ft long.. he thinks it will be fine.. because he has had his nile for 3 years and its only at 4 ft long. the op also refuses to see that he will need a larger enclosure. and doesn't think he needs soil at all.

i think niles get pretty large sometimes but it looks good. shud be a bit larger probably but idk how big your monitor actually is. that wont house an adult male though im pretty sure

[DiscoPat]

Without holding 2 feet of substrate it will hold almost no species of monitor.

[smy_749]

Without holding 2 feet of substrate it will hold almost no species of monitor.

I don't agree with this. The "2 feet" magic number that is used in husbandry, but if it was 1.5 feet, do you think red ackies will perish in here? How about brevicauda, kingorum, and don't forget the tree species which don't typically burrow or ever hang out on the ground anyways...(not saying don't provide substrate) but plenty of people have very healthy monitors, even producing young, without '2 feet' of substrate. Perhaps its critical for the health of some burrowing species like savannahs, but I don't think its critical for all of them.

[Pirarucu]

I don't agree with this. The "2 feet" magic number that is used in husbandry, but if it was 1.5 feet, do you think red ackies will perish in here? How about brevicauda, kingorum, and don't forget the tree species which don't typically burrow or ever hang out on the ground anyways...(not saying don't provide substrate) but plenty of people have very healthy monitors, even producing young, without '2 feet' of substrate. Perhaps its critical for the health of some burrowing species like savannahs, but I don't think its critical for all of them.This. Two feet is what you need for mid-sized burrowing monitors. You don't need a deep soil substrate for all monitors, Lace Monitors serving as a suitable example. That being said, I personally would still provide a deep layer of soil even for those monitors that don't "need" it. For those monitors that do need a deep layer of soil, a good rule of thumb is to provide at least half the monitor's length in depth, excepting in the case of very young monitors where half the body length would not be deep enough to create a burrow in.

[DeadlyDesires]

This. Two feet is what you need for mid-sized burrowing monitors. You don't need a deep soil substrate for all monitors, Lace Monitors serving as a suitable example. That being said, I personally would still provide a deep layer of soil even for those monitors that don't "need" it. For those monitors that do need a deep layer of soil, a good rule of thumb is to provide at least half the monitor's length in depth, excepting in the case of very young monitors where half the body length would not be deep enough to create a burrow in.


he wont use soil, his statement verbatim, "i have soil in his enclosure now and he never digs at it so i dont want it in there and it doesn't look clean" so we told him its because he doesn't have enough in there which is true.

[infernalis]

Care to link the thread? I missed it.

[V87]

I don't agree with this. The "2 feet" magic number that is used in husbandry, but if it was 1.5 feet, do you think red ackies will perish in here? How about brevicauda, kingorum, and don't forget the tree species which don't typically burrow or ever hang out on the ground anyways...(not saying don't provide substrate) but plenty of people have very healthy monitors, even producing young, without '2 feet' of substrate. Perhaps its critical for the health of some burrowing species like savannahs, but I don't think its critical for all of them.

Tree monis do burrow and it plays an important role in all monitor husbandry ..... Gout is a killer and also for a nesting pair it is if high importance ...

[Danimal]

Deze what is that made out of? Guessing some kind of aluminum framing and panels? Will you share the specs? I am interested in the construction.

[smy_749]

Tree monis do burrow and it plays an important role in all monitor husbandry ..... Gout is a killer and also for a nesting pair it is if high importance ...

Do you have proof of burrowing green trees or anything in the wild? Not being an idiot, I'd just like to see it. I don't like to bring people's husbandry as a proof for why something is not needed, but I'm going to do it anyways. I don't think it can be that important if crocdoc has almost no substrate in his enclosure and his lacy's are very healthy. The reptile whisperer lady or whatever the hell shes called doesn't use it either and seems to ahve very healthy trees. Do salvadorii and salvators also make burrows? Or rock dwelling species?


Also, can you not provide a substitute for the burrow (a nest box / humid hide box) to serve the same purpose without being bothered with deep substrate?

[V87]

Do you have proof of burrowing green trees or anything in the wild? Not being an idiot, I'd just like to see it. I don't like to bring people's husbandry as a proof for why something is not needed, but I'm going to do it anyways. I don't think it can be that important if crocdoc has almost no substrate in his enclosure and his lacy's are very healthy. The reptile whisperer lady or whatever the hell shes called doesn't use it either and seems to ahve very healthy trees. Do salvadorii and salvators also make burrows? Or rock dwelling species?


Also, can you not provide a substitute for the burrow (a nest box / humid hide box) to serve the same purpose without being bothered with deep substrate?

Now wen I say burrow I don't mean they make burrows to the extent savs do ... But my female tree used to burrow all the time especially at night but I have no pics or proof so ill guess u just have to take my word for it and this burrowing doesn't have to b strictly on the ground u can make arboreal substrate points in which they can burrow .... I'm shocked that crocdoc doesn't have much substrate tbh I don't knw him not have I spoke to him at all but I have heard of him and his reputation this is why I am shocked as I thought he would have a depth of substrate ..... U can create neat boxes and all sorts but doesn't mean they will use them ... My female laid in the substrate on the floor .... Even though I provided arboreal nest boxes .... And I have heard of other tree monis laying in the substrate instead of neat boxes .... Maybe cause I'm not getting the right temps of where the box is situated or maybe she don't like em but I knw they other greens have laid in the substrate ....

A deep substrate IMO is a necessity .... Maybe somepeople don't use it but if we are trying to replicate nature as best we can for the good of the captive ... Then a few feet of soil is nothing compared to nature but its a start ...

[murrindindi]

Do you have proof of burrowing green trees or anything in the wild? Not being an idiot, I'd just like to see it. I don't like to bring people's husbandry as a proof for why something is not needed, but I'm going to do it anyways. I don't think it can be that important if crocdoc has almost no substrate in his enclosure and his lacy's are very healthy. The reptile whisperer lady or whatever the hell shes called doesn't use it either and seems to ahve very healthy trees. Do salvadorii and salvators also make burrows? Or rock dwelling species?


Also, can you not provide a substitute for the burrow (a nest box / humid hide box) to serve the same purpose without being bothered with deep substrate?


Hi, David (crocdoc) does have relatively deep substrate in his V. Varius enclosure (as well as the nestbox).
V. salvator certainly do burrow, and V. salvadorii may well do the same, they (both species) may sometimes take refuge in the base of large trees, amongst other places. I don`t think the "critical" depth need be 2 feet for all Varanids, though obviously the larger the monitor, the more depth will be needed.
V. exathematicus females don`t usually nest deeper than 12inches.

[smy_749]

I'm not trying to encourage people to skimp out on substrate if they can provide it, was just curious if anyone actually observed burrowing by tree dwelling species, given all the parameters are correct and there is an alternative to burrowing for humidity etc. But if you say you've seen burrowing, and murr as well, than I guess its best to provide it and it certainly wouldn't cause harm.

Murr do the salvators actually dig out full burrows and spend significant time in them? or the salvordii? I figured the lacys did since I saw the termite mound pictures, but only included them because I thought somewhere that crocdoc said he used to have deep substrate and they didn't use it much so thats why he made it less deep.

When I picture a tree dwelling species burrow, I picture something like a half hole under a log (just digging out a gap to rest in, as opposed to a full burrow). I guess the anatomy of a green tree or similar doesn't "look" like its designed for burrowing in the least.

[DeadlyDesires]

This photo was givin to me to post on this forum to show proof that Green Trees do infact borrow... This is a photo of Frank Retes' green trees


http://i.imgur.com/yGnwmew.jpg

[Pirarucu]

I'm not trying to encourage people to skimp out on substrate if they can provide it, was just curious if anyone actually observed burrowing by tree dwelling species, given all the parameters are correct and there is an alternative to burrowing for humidity etc. But if you say you've seen burrowing, and murr as well, than I guess its best to provide it and it certainly wouldn't cause harm.

Murr do the salvators actually dig out full burrows and spend significant time in them? or the salvordii? I figured the lacys did since I saw the termite mound pictures, but only included them because I thought somewhere that crocdoc said he used to have deep substrate and they didn't use it much so thats why he made it less deep.

When I picture a tree dwelling species burrow, I picture something like a half hole under a log (just digging out a gap to rest in, as opposed to a full burrow). I guess the anatomy of a green tree or similar doesn't "look" like its designed for burrowing in the least.Salvators do dig out actual burrows and do spend time in them, though not as much as some other species. There are several articles in Biawak detailing this.

No, tree dwelling species do not usually have elaborate burrows like more terrestrial monitors do. This is, as you guessed, because they aren't as well adapted to dig elaborate burrows. Their smaller burrows still serve the same purposes though.

[smy_749]

How about komodo's? I'm thinking of buying one and I don't think I can provide the amount of substrate needed for him to fit inside a burrow. :wacky:

Anyways, I learned something new about water monitors. The tree monitor thing is not as surprising as they are not really full on burrows as much as just moving a bit of dirt to fit in a tight space on the ground it seems...

[Pirarucu]

How about komodo's? I'm thinking of buying one and I don't think I can provide the amount of substrate needed for him to fit inside a burrow. :wacky:

Anyways, I learned something new about water monitors. The tree monitor thing is not as surprising as they are not really full on burrows as much as just moving a bit of dirt to fit in a tight space on the ground it seems...:D
http://www.nationalgeographicstock.com/comp/MI/001/1302934.jpg

[smy_749]

:D
http://www.nationalgeographicstock.com/comp/MI/001/1302934.jpg

Those are prairie dogs :P I'm still getting one :D

[murrindindi]

If I remember correctly (I may not?), I think Frank R. initially kept the Green Tree monitors in a trough, not very much "air space" so it was understandable they burrowed in the substate, there was nowhere else to go. (I hope Frank will one day forgive me if I`m wrong)......
I know at this time his Tree monitors are in somewhat taller setups with many branches and hollows to hide in, though they do have a relatively deep substrate, too.

[murrindindi]

Those are prairie dogs :P I'm still getting one :D


For your information I believe Komodo dragons do best on paper towels.... :hmm:

[smy_749]

For your information I believe Komodo dragons do best on paper towels.... :hmm:

How about salt water ? They do swim occasionally between islands right? hahaha

[deze69]

i used aluminum and welded the frame together. and I used frp and dow corning 999 glazing sealant to attach paneling. on the inside here soon i will use removable panels of backerboard covered with grout and slate to give it a natural look. for the inside where the frp is. another enclosure will include subtrate and more area .. this is only the pond the cage can be added onto but supplies are somewhat expensive. ill be using indoor outdoor carpet glued to panels and screwed to the floor.because I dont want dirt getting in the water it will clog my pumps and filters im using for ease of cleaning..

[deze69]

deadly desires was in the other forum and he likes to rag so ill be sure to ignore him in this one ...

[War Machine]

So, let me get this straight, a nile monitor (that will reach 7') in a 6' enclosure?

Meme Removed

[deze69]

also my monitors healthy and very well established other wise i wouldnt be going through all this trouble hes outgrown his cage and i decided i wanted an attractive cage that i can add sections onto to better suit his needs

[deze69]

another enclosure will include subtrate and more area .. this is only the pond the cage can be added onto but supplies are somewhat expensive.

[deze69]

that was for you war machine.

[deze69]

i will copy and paste this for you if you need to hear it again

[deze69]

and 6x4 is how many square feet do the math war machine.i say that pretty good for a pond

[DeadlyDesires]

yes make sure you ignore me... IM A GIRL by the way... and im not the one who is going to kill my monitor in that coffin of yours.

[Pirarucu]

The way you are wording this is a bit confusing, let me see if I understand. The cage pictured is only a part of the whole thing, which is not yet finished? The plan is to build another section with the deep soil to burrow in and then attach it to this one?

[poison123]

He made it pretty clear on the other forum that hes not gonna use substrate. He says he wants his cage to be "clean".

[War Machine]

He made it pretty clear on the other forum that hes not gonna use substrate. He says he wants his cage to be "clean".

I vouch this information.

Wayne, and others;

new cage build (http://www.reptileforums.net/forums/showthread.php?91157-new-cage-build)

[deze69]

if you read back through the forum i specifically said that i can and will be adding onto the cage .. but since you guys decided that wasnt good enough.. he needs more room than that now and dirt now..but no one offered to paypal me any cash... i just said it aint happening now and ill build MY cage how i want .

[poison123]

if you read back through the forum i specifically said that i can and will be adding onto the cage .. but since you guys decided that wasnt good enough.. he needs more room than that now and dirt now..but no one offered to paypal me any cash... i just said it aint happening now and ill build MY cage how i want .

Where did you say you will be adding substrate? Give me your paypal email and ill send you some money.

[deze69]

i would be more than willing to accept your paypal donations to see that this lizard gets a proper cage to both our liking but without your donation your requests go unheard.

[poison123]

I havent requested anything though.....

[War Machine]

if you read back through the forum i specifically said that i can and will be adding onto the cage .. but since you guys decided that wasnt good enough.. he needs more room than that now and dirt now..but no one offered to paypal me any cash... i just said it aint happening now and ill build MY cage how i want .

The way I interpret your Logic;

You're on a budget, stressing multiple times this was expensive to build. So with that said, building the "dirt" addition will take you 6-12 months before you even start it.

With that said, you're aiding the already declined health of your monitor. You're theory is backwards. Focus on the NEEDS, not wants. You're putting yourself before the monitor.

[deze69]

i said multiple times that that was the reason i went with aluminum to be able to expand as he grew..so i dont have to keep building and throwing away cages. and so filter the water to keep it cleaner because hell require more .but it went unheard everyone was having to much fun insulting me... and its a great design just a little elaborate for just a pond but ive put all i have into this I broke my hand and am on disability for a few more weeks and I wanted to do what I could for him before i go back to work.

[deze69]

I make good money im an ironworker but dont have time

[deze69]

im on disability right now .. its over in two weeks.i plan on moving to a nicer home and i need the cage to match.. my wife dont care about no lizard if it looks bad shes gonna be pushin me to get rid of it.. i try to keep everyone happy.

[deze69]

I assure you the lizard is very resopnsive and healthy

[deze69]

I assure you I didnt get on here to fight I just wanted to share with those who didnt know that there are other alternatives to wood.. but where im at right now the cage has either gotta look right or the lizards gotta go. and you know how hard it is to find a good keeper.hell i rather have saved my money and bought some new suspension for my car but I did what was right.

[deze69]

save your money poison ill get it soon he will be fine...thanks though

[Freebody]

I normally keep my mouth shut on bad keeping post like this, when the owner knowingly has bad keeping practice, but rule #1 in herp keeping is you don't buy an animal if you cant afford, or have time to build proper housing, that nile is already too big for the cage your building for it at this point now, so its not throwing cages away and building one that can be upgraded, its building garbage straight out of the running gate, years ago when I had a nile monitor, I got it at about 12 inch, housed it in a 8'x2x6' tall with 2 levels, it hit 4 feet before the 2nd year so it seems like yours has been stunted in growth by the small cage it was in, and now it big its going into another cage its too small for, im not trying to insult you, as hard time falls on us all and I understand, but I hope when you say everything you don't want to hear about spending money with out donations, to build proper setup for a GIANT lizard you picked, is just venting about the flac your getting, but honestly its not like you thought you were buying a bearded dragon and had a proper 3 foot tank and accidently broke rule #2 ie don't buy anything before you do your homework, and ended up with a nile and now your struggling to deal with it, that I could some what see where your coming from. Please do your lizard a favor and build a 12'x4'x6' tall cage, with 2 feed of substrate to dig in, plywood is cheep, stain it,seal it, make it nice and your wife should not mind either, Good luck. then you will have a happy lizard and you will feel good your doing the right thing, unfortunately building an insufficient cage instead of buying suspension for your car is not. I wish your lizard the best of luck.

[deze69]

here we go

[deze69]

he can wait till i get him right
im not throwing away a thousand bucks of cage to build a large basic cage when hes not big enough for the one im building

[Freebody]

im seriously not trying to be mean, as I hate when people post things and get chewed apart, it has happened to me in the past and it certainly didn't make me want to listen even know they were right. gl hes 4' going into a 6' cage, that's too small for sure. your in the states, 4x8 sheets of 3/4" plywood is like $20 from what im told, here I know its like $27, that's 6 sheets, buy a few lengths of 12"x2" board stack them up for the substrate box, bag of screws $20, bottle of stain $20, some sealer $20, light fixtures $3 a piece, some extension cord to attack to the lights, $10 for a pack of 3, go to wrecker or some place and buy a house window if you want to make it nice for the front, that's costly, but some glass track for like $20 and some old screen door glass is dirt cheep. honestly you can build a really spot on nice tank for about $400 tops, I build a 4'x4'3 for about $200 a few years back and it took me a day to build.

[deze69]

I know they like dirt and use it to regulate humidity i know. I know the hides are important to keep stress levels down.retes stack etc.i know they need basking temps up to 135 degrees and a temp gradient of 75 -135 degrees throughout the tank.. i have heard the humidity should range from 50-75% and i have heard 70- 100% so i keep it at 80%. a have a day night cycle .. i know i know i know im in the process of building a cage

[deze69]

relax hes in the same cage he was raised in he can stay in there till i finish this one which is much bigger than what hes in now

[deze69]

the cage will be huge when im done I have to allow people time to adjust .lol and get money up for the next section

[War Machine]

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z197/VolcomDub/IMG_1784_zpsa88bee7a.jpg

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z197/VolcomDub/IMG_1823_zps1755a603.jpg

$400 so far dude. You boast on your creativity, but all I see is a magicians box. Wood is used for a reason.

[War Machine]

Oh and speaking from experience with two albigs, You can shield your pond and filters all you want. But you cant stop a mobile monitor dipping in and out between the two. I put fresh TUBS of water in daily, and I dump out solid mud, daily.

[Freebody]

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z197/VolcomDub/IMG_1784_zpsa88bee7a.jpg

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z197/VolcomDub/IMG_1823_zps1755a603.jpg

$400 so far dude. You boast on your creativity, but all I see is a magicians box. Wood is used for a reason.
very nice!

[moshirimon]

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z197/VolcomDub/IMG_1784_zpsa88bee7a.jpg

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z197/VolcomDub/IMG_1823_zps1755a603.jpg

$400 so far dude. You boast on your creativity, but all I see is a magicians box. Wood is used for a reason.

Now that's an enclosure.. I really like how you layed out the branches. Can't wait to see it filled with dirt. What are you keeping in there what are the dimensions?

[War Machine]

Now that's an enclosure.. I really like how you layed out the branches. Can't wait to see it filled with dirt. What are you keeping in there what are the dimensions?

Its for a now (22") - sub adult Black throat. Measures at 10' long, 5' wide, and 7' tall. Once its completed and being used, I'll plan, start the adult enclosure, hoping to build a 16'x8'x8' down the road.

36" of dirt to go in. Plumbed water with drain valve. The branches are to (in hopes) help support burrows. We'll see.

Thanks guys!

More info here.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/varanid/95935-diy-monitor-enclosure.html

[Freebody]

sadly nothing is going to change the OP's mind, he does not want to provide a proper tank, so this is all wasted energy on are part to help him, he should have gotten beardies. im not looking at this thread any longer :(

[DeadlyDesires]

sadly nothing is going to change the OP's mind, he does not want to provide a proper tank, so this is all wasted energy on are part to help him, he should have gotten beardies. im not looking at this thread any longer :(


you should have seen his mouth towards other people on his other thread.

[KORBIN5895]

Where did you say you will be adding substrate? Give me your paypal email and ill send you some money.

His PayPal address is kck5895@Gmail.com.

[infernalis]

I don't recall begging for donations to fulfill my responsibilities. :D

I DID however borrow some tools.

[KORBIN5895]

I don't recall begging for donations to fulfill my responsibilities. :D

I DID however borrow some tools.

Shhhh! Just send a donation.

[poison123]

His PayPal address is kck5895@Gmail.com.

$100 sent. :p

[deze69]

lol pleaaase send money its cold im hungry I need a hit ...man down..im living outside in a ttthousand dollar aluminum box ..i got a couple heat lamps but they bout to blow out .......heeeeeelp

[deze69]

cOULD ANYONE SPARE A COUPLE ROCKS FOR MA LIZARD CAGE

[deze69]

i CANT HEAR U

[DeadlyDesires]

lol pleaaase send money its cold im hungry I need a hit ...man down..im living outside in a ttthousand dollar aluminum box ..i got a couple heat lamps but they bout to blow out .......heeeeeelp


your just an new breed of stupid aren't you?

[Starbuck]

How much does (this section of) your aluminum cage weigh, total? You tout that it's light-weight, but is it really worth that much money, besides the fact that your going to have to fill it with hundreds of pounds of dirt and water?

[infernalis]

This crap has gone on long enough, Go fight on RF net, the thread ends now.