Fish dying

[TotalDbag]

All of a sudden my fish population has been dropping like leaves (2 died within a week or two). The first one went MIA, and I checked the tank, and didn't find him. The second one I found. She was pretty beat up. I'm not sure if this cannibalism was after she died, or if it's what caused it. She was also a pale whitish color, instead of the normal clear-ish silver color. And I have noticed that my loach has become considerably more active. I replaced the filter cartridge, put some pH, ammonia, etc neutralizer in there. I did just recently change their food diet from Brine shrimp to blood worms, could this be the cause of the chaos? Help me please.

[TotalDbag]

Here's the second victim. They are bloodfin tetras BTW.
i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p584/TotalDbag/CAM01034_zps6f769227.jpgI won't post the pic, in case some would rather not see.

[asgrande]

Clown loaches are know to be fin nippers and get aggresive so it is a possibility. And the different diet shouldn't matter. Test your water and look at the params if they are outta whack thay could also be the issue.

[EmilyS]

What all is in the tank?

You should probably test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, as that might be the cause.

Do you still have the filter media that you replaced? If you do, you'll want to put it back. Removing the media can remove the beneficial bacteria that keeps your tank cycled. The packages that the media come in might say that you should replace them every month or so, but that's just so that they'll make money when you go out and buy more every month or so.

One problem I'm seeing is that you switched to bloodworms- have you been feeding this daily? Bloodworms are meant as more of a snack, and shouldn't be given more than once a week.

[TotalDbag]

What I'd is in the tank?
gravel, wheelhouse decoration, heater, filter. And that's about it. I've had them for a year, and nothing like this has happened before. The only thing different now, is that one of their lightbulbs went out, and I haven't found time to replace it yet.

[smy_749]

I think he meant what other species of fish do you have in there? But yea, buy a test kit and test your water parameters. Check to make sure your heater is still putting out heat, and it wouldnt hurt to switch back to the diet that you had before. Not saying the blood worms are the cause, but when something goes wrong I always look at what I recently changed as a possible cause.

[TotalDbag]

I think he meant what other species of fish do you have in there? But yea, buy a test kit and test your water parameters. Check to make sure your heater is still putting out heat, and it wouldnt hurt to switch back to the diet that you had before. Not saying the blood worms are the cause, but when something goes wrong I always look at what I recently changed as a possible cause.

Other species is a Von Rio tetra, a loach, and a small otto. I do have a pH test kit, and that's in the norm. But how do I test other things like ammonia, and such?

[erichillkeast]

You can buy tests kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

If you don't know already, I would look up and gain a good understanding of the nitrogen cycle, that way I you will know what safe levels of all three are, and what would be causing the usafe levels.

In the mean time, I have a couple questions.

How big is the tank?
What is the total number of fish?
What, how often, and how much are you feeding?
How big and how often do you change your water?
What type of filter are you using?
Does it look like any of the other fish are sick (closed up fins, eye pop, ich, strange twitchy behaviour etc.)

[smy_749]

Other species is a Von Rio tetra, a loach, and a small otto. I do have a pH test kit, and that's in the norm. But how do I test other things like ammonia, and such?

Those otocinclus can be viscious, hes probably killing all your fish while you sleep. Just kidding.

They are pretty cheap. You can get them at petco or petsmart. If its not that, then start looking at your loach, he probably recently started getting aggressive simply because hes getting too big for your tank and isn't being provided enough space anymore.

[TotalDbag]

You can buy tests kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

If you don't know already, I would look up and gain a good understanding of the nitrogen cycle, that way I you will know what safe levels of all three are, and what would be causing the usafe levels.

In the mean time, I have a couple questions.

How big is the tank?
What is the total number of fish?
What, how often, and how much are you feeding?
How big and how often do you change your water?
What type of filter are you using?
Does it look like any of the other fish are sick (closed up fins, eye pop, ich, strange twitchy behaviour etc.)


10 gallon
Used to be 6 total, now it's 4
I don't know what it is off hand, but I'll check when I get home. And I feed them as much as they'll eat in a minute once a day. At the end of the day
Maybe a quart and a half, to two quarts a week, or so.
The top fin equivalent to the wisperer filter. It's rated to 10 gallons
Other than my loach becoming more active? No.

[TotalDbag]

Those otocinclus can be viscious, hes probably killing all your fish while you sleep. Just kidding.

They are pretty cheap. You can get them at petco or petsmart. If its not that, then start looking at your loach, he probably recently started getting aggressive simply because hes getting too big for your tank and isn't being provided enough space anymore.

Should I get a larger hiding spot?

[smy_749]

I think the loach is the problem. 10 gallons is far to small for a loach, and I'm sure hes gotten big. You need more like 125 gallons for an adult loach, so I doubt a hide is going to do much good as he gets larger and larger. Pretty soon hes going to be bigger than the tank anyways.

[Pareeeee]

You can't really tell what's wrong with a dead fish. Their body colour changes after death and other fish start nibbling at their body.

I'd say your loach is probably being aggressive at night when you don't see him. I suggest finding a new home for him. They get huge, and certainly should never be kept in a 10 gallon tank.

Did you replace ALL the filter media at the same time? If so, that would have caused a bacteria inbalance. Only replace some of the media at a time, not all, and make sure you don't clean the aquarium in the same week you clean the filter.


...and just in case you took the other person seriously...no, otocinclus are not aggressive. They are the opposite of aggressive :P

I wouldn't feed bloodworms or brine shrimp as a staple. Get a good tropical fish food and feed the bloodworms only as treats.

Can you take a look at your living fish and see if there are any abnormalities? Clamped fins, white tufts or spots on body, cloudy eyes, pale band through the middle of their body, ragged fins, red gills, etc?

[TotalDbag]

I think the loach is the problem. 10 gallons is far to small for a loach, and I'm sure hes gotten big. You need more like 125 gallons for an adult loach, so I doubt a hide is going to do much good as he gets larger and larger. Pretty soon hes going to be bigger than the tank anyways.
Is there smaller loach species? Because the place I got it from said their max size was 4" Though it is petsmart, so it might not be reliable. I think it was called a black Kuhli loach
You can't really tell what's wrong with a dead fish. Their body colour changes after death and other fish start nibbling at their body.

I'd say your loach is probably being aggressive at night when you don't see him. I suggest finding a new home for him. They get huge, and certainly should never be kept in a 10 gallon tank.

Did you replace ALL the filter media at the same time? If so, that would have caused a bacteria inbalance. Only replace some of the media at a time, not all, and make sure you don't clean the aquarium in the same week you clean the filter.


...and just in case you took the other person seriously...no, otocinclus are not aggressive. They are the opposite of aggressive :P

I wouldn't feed bloodworms or brine shrimp as a staple. Get a good tropical fish food and feed the bloodworms only as treats.

Can you take a look at your living fish and see if there are any abnormalities? Clamped fins, white tufts or spots on body, cloudy eyes, pale band through the middle of their body, ragged fins, red gills, etc?

What's the filter media?
And I can't look at them now, I'm not at home. But the last time I checked (last night) I didn't see anything abnormal. I usually do feed them this (http://pet.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pPETS-3756111r200.jpg)

[smy_749]

Does he look like a snake? Long and slender? For some reason I was just thinking clown loach. There are many loach species and the kuhlis are a much smaller species yes

[TotalDbag]

Does he look like a snake? Long and slender? For some reason I was just thinking clown loach. There are many loach species and the kuhlis are a much smaller species yes

Yes, he looks like a miniature eel.
I probably should have mentioned that. My bad.

[TotalDbag]

This is exactly what he looks like

http://www.brettb.com/images/BlackKuhliLoach.jpg

[Lankyrob]

This is exactly what he looks like

http://www.brettb.com/images/BlackKuhliLoach.jpg

We had a loach in one of our tropical tanks a few yearsback, were told it would fit in really well in our community tank. It ate every other fish in the tank! I would remove it personally and house it alone.

[Pareeeee]

Oh I thought you were talking about a Clown Loach. That is a Weather Loach, they are quite aggressive. That would be why your fish are dying, I've owned these before, they can be vicious once the light goes out.

[TotalDbag]

Oh I thought you were talking about a Clown Loach. That is a Weather Loach, they are quite aggressive. That would be why your fish are dying, I've owned these before, they can be vicious once the light goes out.

Well, then. Those darn petstores, always be lying. I don't know what to do with him though. Any recommendations? I'd also prefer to not murder him.

[TotalDbag]

Actually I'm now looking at my remaining fish, and my biggest tetra has an abnormally colored scale. What can I do with my evil loach?

[TotalDbag]

Ok, I lied, that is NOT what he looks like. Here's a picture of him.
He looks more pinky, than black. He also has a white underbelly.
http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p584/TotalDbag/CAM01048_zps6eb5d770.jpg (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/TotalDbag/media/CAM01048_zps6eb5d770.jpg.html)

[RyanReptile]

This is definitely a kulhi Loach probably not your problem.

[BradleyReptiles]

Upgrade upgrade! 10g is too small for like anything... try to get atleast a 20g long so fish can get proper territories etc.. tetras are very active as well and need to be kept a groups of 6, the oto can be your problem they get more aggressive as they age

[bumblebat]

Kuhli loaches still aren't suitable for a 10 gallon. They have a fairly high waste output and they're social. A group of at least six is needed for them to be comfortable. Don't change your filter media. It harbors the mass majority of your nitrifying bacteria. Rinse it in tank water if it gets sludgy, not tap water. If the cartridge begins to fall apart after a couple of years, replace it with a seeded cartridge, or put a new cartridge in behind the old for three weeks before taking out the old one to seed the new one.
The fish you have in there right now are more apt to be stressed because they're schooling fish, but a 10 gallon isn't large enough to handle a school. They're all very active fish and require more swim space.
With what you have right now, you should be doing a 30% water change weekly and vacuuming at least a third of your gravel.
Dechlorinator with prime. This will detoxify ammonia and nitrites without locking it out or removing it and taking away from your beneficial bacteria's food source, as well as removing chlorine and chloramines.

A lot of local fish stores (not big chains) will take trade ins if they have room. Call around a little bit if you're looking to rehome any of them.

[Pareeeee]

This is definitely a kulhi Loach probably not your problem.

Definitely NOT a kuhli loach:
http://www.tropicalfishandaquariums.com/Catfish/KuhliLoach2.jpg

From the second picture it still looks like a Weather/Dojo Loach to me. They can come in varying shades of brown/grey/even pinkish.

I suggest asking your local pet store if they will take it back

[smy_749]

I don't think it looks like any of the pictures you guys posted, I think it looks like a cross in between. Anyways, I think if you get a bigger tank, whatever the problem was will probably solve itself. Go get a 29 G or 40 G. And alot more fish, you can watch them school and exhibit all kinds of new behavior they didn't have room for in a 10 gallon.

[bumblebat]

Also, feeding bloodworms more than once or twice a week can be dangerous. They tend to carry a bacteria that causes bloat and they're not nutritionally viable as a staple diet. I would recommend looking in to getting New Life Spectrum flakes w/ garlic online. It's the best food you can get without just making it yourself, which can get messy and expensive (I do both.)
Bloodworms and brineshrimp should be supplemental at most.

[RyanReptile]

Definitely NOT a kuhli loach:
http://www.tropicalfishandaquariums.com/Catfish/KuhliLoach2.jpg

From the second picture it still looks like a Weather/Dojo Loach to me. They can come in varying shades of brown/grey/even pinkish.

I suggest asking your local pet store if they will take it back

I Googled weather loachs and was surprised at all of the different colourations that they come in if this is a Weather loach you will definitely need a larger aquarium I believe they can grow up to a foot in length.

[Danimal]

I kept a Clown Loach in my Slider tank for 10+ years. That tank was a 75Gal. 10 is very small though and less forgiving. Wild guess would be not enough filter.

[TotalDbag]

I kept a Clown Loach in my Slider tank for 10+ years. That tank was a 75Gal. 10 is very small though and less forgiving. Wild guess would be not enough filter.

If that's the case, can I upgrade to a 30 gallon filter, until I can gather the money together for the larger tank, and other necessities?

[smy_749]

If that's the case, can I upgrade to a 30 gallon filter, until I can gather the money together for the larger tank, and other necessities?

You don't have a clown loach, so you won't need as large of a tank. I still think you need more space, 10 gallons is very small.

grab a 29 gallon or something at the 1 $ per gallon sales at petco, and a filter , done.

[TotalDbag]

You don't have a clown loach, so you won't need as large of a tank. I still think you need more space, 10 gallons is very small.

grab a 29 gallon or something at the 1 $ per gallon sales at petco, and a filter , done.

I also need a heater. Well I guess the tank will have to sit on the floor, until I can get a stand. Now the question is, what to do with the 10 gallon? Get another snake, or more fish? (thinking neon tetras)

[smy_749]

I also need a heater. Well I guess the tank will have to sit on the floor, until I can get a stand. Now the question is, what to do with the 10 gallon? Get another snake, or more fish? (thinking neon tetras)

Make a planted vivarium out of it with live plants, a little stream, and moss ;P

[TotalDbag]

Make a planted vivarium out of it with live plants, a little stream, and moss ;P

The stream might be the hard part.......Along with everything else :) :p

[TotalDbag]

Can tetras be mixed to make one big school, or do they like to be with their own kind?

[smy_749]

The stream might be the hard part.......Along with everything else :) :p

Its not so bad, it doesn't have to be a real stream. Just a little pond in the middle, and you could prob use the little filter you have on there now.

Just google how to make a paludarium, its not so bad and looks very cool. When you get good at it, make a bigger one and add animals.

[TotalDbag]

Its not so bad, it doesn't have to be a real stream. Just a little pond in the middle, and you could prob use the little filter you have on there now.

Just google how to make a paludarium, its not so bad and looks very cool. When you get good at it, make a bigger one and add animals.

Plant upkeep seems like the hard part.

[smy_749]

Plant upkeep seems like the hard part.

Just give it a try, plants are pretty cheap and it will look nice in your room or something. You could always make a planted 10 gallon with neon tetras or something. And I don't think they mix schools. I haven't seen it atleast.

[TotalDbag]

Just give it a try, plants are pretty cheap and it will look nice in your room or something. You could always make a planted 10 gallon with neon tetras or something. And I don't think they mix schools. I haven't seen it atleast.

I tried plants in the aquarium once, they died pretty quickly.

[erichillkeast]

Or you could keep the ten gallon running, get a test kit and figure out where you are going wrong, fix it and when the loach outgrowns the tank either upgrade then or take the loach to your LFS.

If I had to take a guess (without knowing your water parameters) the reasonthe second fish died is because of an ammonia spike. Which was caused by the other decaying fish.

IMO if all you do is upgrade to a larger tank without knowing what is going wrong you will just experience the same problem it will just take a bit longer for the problem to show.

[Pirarucu]

Definitely NOT a kuhli loach:
http://www.tropicalfishandaquariums.com/Catfish/KuhliLoach2.jpg

From the second picture it still looks like a Weather/Dojo Loach to me. They can come in varying shades of brown/grey/even pinkish.

I suggest asking your local pet store if they will take it backThere is a black form of the Kuhli Loach... That is what he has, it's not a Dojo Loach.
My guess is that there's some sort of parasite or fungus in the tank. We've got some sort of fungus going through our brains right now that just will not go away. Luckily it seems to be a very specialized variety, as it hasn't touched anything else in the tank.

[TotalDbag]

Or you could keep the ten gallon running, get a test kit and figure out where you are going wrong, fix it and when the loach outgrowns the tank either upgrade then or take the loach to your LFS.

If I had to take a guess (without knowing your water parameters) the reasonthe second fish died is because of an ammonia spike. Which was caused by the other decaying fish.

IMO if all you do is upgrade to a larger tank without knowing what is going wrong you will just experience the same problem it will just take a bit longer for the problem to show.

Wouldn't testing it not be accurate, because I put a neutral regulator in it, and changed the filter cartridge?

I think I prefer the "loach is killing them" answer opposed to the "parasite" answer. Parasite answer sounds a lot harder to fix. But how do I figure out if it's that or not? Water test kit?

[smy_749]

Wouldn't testing it not be accurate, because I put a neutral regulator in it, and changed the filter cartridge?

I think I prefer the "loach is killing them" answer opposed to the "parasite" answer. Parasite answer sounds a lot harder to fix. But how do I figure out if it's that or not? Water test kit?

Hahahaa it doesn't matter what you prefer, It won't change the reality. I agree with the poster about the water testing kit, but even if you find out theres something with the water I still advise upgrading.

Also, if he did upgrade to a tank, the amount of waste from his fish would be significantly less in comparison to the new size of the tank - lower levels.

Unless you buy a bunch more fish... then you may be back to square one.

[TotalDbag]

Hahahaa it doesn't matter what you prefer, It won't change the reality. I agree with the poster about the water testing kit, but even if you find out theres something with the water I still advise upgrading.

Also, if he did upgrade to a tank, the amount of waste from his fish would be significantly less in comparison to the new size of the tank - lower levels.

Unless you buy a bunch more fish... then you may be back to square one.

I know prefering doesn't do anything, but it makes me feel better for the time being, until I can test it. :p
I'll probably bring the fish back to schooling numbers. So around 3 more tetras, and 2, or more loaches (depending on size), so he can be comfortable, as others has said. But I don't know what size I'm getting yet, so those numbers will vary.

[bumblebat]

A 10 gallon doesn't have adequate swim space for neon tetras. They're also insanely sensitive to water parameters and need a mature, established tank. It will take 4-6 months before you'll be able to keep them successfully in a 20 gallon minimum.

[smy_749]

A 10 gallon doesn't have adequate swim space for neon tetras. They're also insanely sensitive to water parameters and need a mature, established tank. It will take 4-6 months before you'll be able to keep them successfully in a 20 gallon minimum.

I stand corrected... my bad lol

[TotalDbag]

Ok, in that case, I'm just going to get another snake, or something that's not a fish.

[Pareeeee]

Cant think of any snake you can put in a 10 gal...except maybe a dekay snake? Not sure, would need more than just my input.

What about a betta? Or a couple female bettas?
Crabs
Newts

[stephanbakir]

Cant think of any snake you can put in a 10 gal...except maybe a dekay snake? Not sure, would need more than just my input.

What about a betta? Or a couple female bettas?
Crabs
Newts

There are only a few betta species that can be co-habbed and they need to be imported, I doubt you can just buy them. Even females can be territorial.

Females look gross too ;)

[Pareeeee]

Females look gross too ;)

Not true! These are my female bettas!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/Fish%20Stuff/BettaSplendensFemale5.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/Pareeeee/Fish%20Stuff/BettaSplendensFemale4.jpg

Mine are fine together but they are in a big tank with lots of cover. Many breeders house females together though.

[stephanbakir]

I gota say, that's a stunning female compared to what I'm used to lol

[TotalDbag]

Cant think of any snake you can put in a 10 gal...except maybe a dekay snake? Not sure, would need more than just my input.

What about a betta? Or a couple female bettas?
Crabs
Newts

Well it'd be a younger snake. And I'd put it in a bigger as it got older.

[Pareeeee]

Well it'd be a younger snake. And I'd put it in a bigger as it got older.

Ah ok. Good to know ;)

Some people keep adult snakes in tiny tanks so I wanted to make sure!

[Danimal]

You could put an invert in a 10 gal.

[TotalDbag]

Actually I just found the perfect fish for me. They require NO maintenance, NO water, NO food, NOTHING.

they're perfect.

GOLDFISH
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Goldfish-Crackers.jpg/300px-Goldfish-Crackers.jpg

[Pirarucu]

There is a black form of the Kuhli Loach... That is what he has, it's not a Dojo Loach.
My guess is that there's some sort of parasite or fungus in the tank. We've got some sort of fungus going through our brains right now that just will not go away. Luckily it seems to be a very specialized variety, as it hasn't touched anything else in the tank.This has to be the best autocorrect on the face of the planet.. It was neons, as in Neon Tetras. LOL.