View Full Version : Killing Live prey
infernalis
04-10-13, 03:38 PM
I moved the mouse killing portion of the savannah monitor skin issue thread here, carry on.....
Ya, I have to say I dont like feeding live mice to savannah monitors; the young ones especially. Im not concerned about their cuteness (breed mice for awhile and you stop feeling they are cute in anyway, the smelly brutal little buggers), it just takes the monitors so long to kill the mouse that it seems overly cruel. Bigger monitors can dispatch them pretty quickly but savs just arent able to get it done quickly.
mygabriella
04-10-13, 04:58 PM
I had a JCP that was chewed up by a live rat with a previous owner. I dont even know how she survived. She had deep scarring. But she grew to be a healthy 8 footer. I just dont like to feed live. and I think they r cute :)
DeadlyDesires
04-11-13, 02:45 AM
I had a JCP that was chewed up by a live rat with a previous owner. I dont even know how she survived. She had deep scarring. But she grew to be a healthy 8 footer. I just dont like to feed live. and I think they r cute :)
more than likely this is because they left the rat/mouse in there when the snake didnt want it and the rodent decided to eat the snake, not likely its from feeding, also my sav seems to kill rat pups fairly quickly, one grab by the head and its all over. but he will take pre-killed as well, just haven't gotten to the "ok" part of killing the rats myself lol.. still working on that..
Toothless
04-11-13, 03:05 PM
I occasionally feed live mice, but only due to the fact that my Sav can kill them quicker and more efficiently then I can. I make sure to position them so his first grab is the head, then one quick bang on the ground later, and the things neck is broken. I figure his way is nice and quick, so it doesn't bother me. If he wasn't able to kill them quickly though, I would not feed him live (I think they're cute and don't like to see things in pain). I would never feed live rats though- would be scared about one getting away and then attacking him (those things can be nasty and rats bite HARD!).
murrindindi
04-11-13, 03:58 PM
more than likely this is because they left the rat/mouse in there when the snake didnt want it and the rodent decided to eat the snake, not likely its from feeding, also my sav seems to kill rat pups fairly quickly, one grab by the head and its all over. but he will take pre-killed as well, just haven't gotten to the "ok" part of killing the rats myself lol.. still working on that..
Hi, I hope you can still laugh about it when the monitor gets bitten, even a small live rat can cause quite a nasty wound. There`s absolutely no need to feed live rodents, and Varanids don`t always initially grab prey by the head, particularly when chasing it. Obviously pink and fuzzie mice can`t do much damage. Why not feed either f/t or f/k, you can easily euthenise them humanely yourself without any risk to your monitor or unnecessary stress to the prey?
infernalis
04-11-13, 05:08 PM
I occasionally feed live mice, but only due to the fact that my Sav can kill them quicker and more efficiently then I can. I make sure to position them so his first grab is the head, then one quick bang on the ground later, and the things neck is broken. I figure his way is nice and quick, so it doesn't bother me. If he wasn't able to kill them quickly though, I would not feed him live (I think they're cute and don't like to see things in pain). I would never feed live rats though- would be scared about one getting away and then attacking him (those things can be nasty and rats bite HARD!).
pillow case method: place rodent in old pillow case, hold by end, SLAM against the side of the counter, over in a flash.
Toothless
04-11-13, 06:03 PM
pillow case method: place rodent in old pillow case, hold by end, SLAM against the side of the counter, over in a flash.
Not quite sure if I can do that...yet.
I'm planning to try that whole baking soda and vinegar thing to see how that works. I've heard its a pretty good method? I don't like feeding live, but can't seem to bring myself to smash the little guys.
Just try cervical dislocation. It's really so quick and very simple. No smashing or gore or brutality; just a quick pull and it's done.
smy_749
04-12-13, 09:32 AM
Can you inject a mouse with an empty needle to send an air bubble to the heart - stroke ? has anyone tried that before?
Can you inject a mouse with an empty needle to send an air bubble to the heart - stroke ? has anyone tried that before?
No and u shouldn't as its cruel and I can imagine immensely painful ...
The whole idea of dispatching a love animal is quickly and humanely ....
Honestly, it cant get any easier or more humane than cervical dislocation, in my opinion. I had never tried it until Korbin kept on about it again and again, but its so quick and simple I cant imagine ever doing it any other way now. I suppose if you are talking about 50+ rodents it would take too long, but for just a normal amount it is very quick and requires no chemicals, chambers or anything. I just place the tongs over the back of the neck, pull the tail with a good yank and its over. It severs their spinal cord so they cant feel pain, and they die very quickly.
Honestly, it cant get any easier or more humane than cervical dislocation, in my opinion. I had never tried it until Korbin kept on about it again and again, but its so quick and simple I cant imagine ever doing it any other way now. I suppose if you are talking about 50+ rodents it would take too long, but for just a normal amount it is very quick and requires no chemicals, chambers or anything. I just place the tongs over the back of the neck, pull the tail with a good yank and its over. It severs their spinal cord so they cant feel pain, and they die very quickly.
In this I will agree ....
smy_749
04-12-13, 12:50 PM
No and u shouldn't as its cruel and I can imagine immensely painful ...
The whole idea of dispatching a love animal is quickly and humanely ....
Ah ok, yea I assumed itd be painful just wasnt sure. I never heard someone refer to a rat as a love animal, thats cute <3 hahaha :-P
Ah ok, yea I assumed itd be painful just wasnt sure. I never heard someone refer to a rat as a love animal, thats cute <3 hahaha :-P
Oooops ... Fell victim to auto correct ...
Live not love ...
Toothless
04-12-13, 01:06 PM
Honestly, it cant get any easier or more humane than cervical dislocation, in my opinion. I had never tried it until Korbin kept on about it again and again, but its so quick and simple I cant imagine ever doing it any other way now. I suppose if you are talking about 50+ rodents it would take too long, but for just a normal amount it is very quick and requires no chemicals, chambers or anything. I just place the tongs over the back of the neck, pull the tail with a good yank and its over. It severs their spinal cord so they cant feel pain, and they die very quickly.
Any way you could post a video on how you do it? I'm more of a visual learning person and find I'm much more comfortable trying something if I can watch it being done first. I would like to give it a try at least once to see how it works (as I really dislike feeding live).
Also, what would the best way be to kill gerbils? I wouldn't think the method you use for mice/ rats would work for them as I've heard their tails are quite fragile and can slodge off.
smy_749
04-12-13, 05:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHvDVixKNwU
One of the other members (dinosaurdammit I think?) here made one on a feeding thread awhile back. Anyone remember where that was?
Toothless
04-13-13, 04:47 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHvDVixKNwU
Very informative. Thank you for posting that. It does seem like a very quick and painless way to go about it.
varanus_mad
04-13-13, 04:57 AM
pillow case method: place rodent in old pillow case, hold by end, SLAM against the side of the counter, over in a flash.
I just grab em by the tail... quick swing on the a brick job done...
I just grab em by the tail... quick swing on the a brick job done...
That's how I do it too but u have to do it a few time too get it right ...
To soft and u don't kill the poor beast and that wud b cruel
To hard and it's messy ...;)
infernalis
04-13-13, 06:33 AM
Call me insensitive, I must be "hardenened" but I quit really concerning myself with the rat's feelings at it's moment of doom. The end result is the same, it's about to be eaten. A dead rodent is a dead rodent, regardless of how it got there.
Call me insensitive, I must be "hardenened" but I quit really concerning myself with the rat's feelings at it's moment of doom. The end result is the same, it's about to be eaten. A dead rodent is a dead rodent, regardless of how it got there.
Insensitive ...
.
As long as its actually dead ... Surely u must show some compassion .... If someone was to feed a sav to a larger monitor would u care if I smashed it against a rock and it wasn't dead and it was in pain for 10mins before being eaten ... I am also quite cold and insensitive but still respect all animals life and suffering .... And no animal shud b made to suffer wether it is going to b eaten or not ...;)
infernalis
04-13-13, 06:43 AM
OK, granted, I do not "get off" watching my animals eat.
But I view nature for what it is, did the BBC camera men step in and euthanize the water buffalo, or did they allow the Komodo to do it's natural method of feeding?
OK, granted, I do not "get off" watching my animals eat.
But I view nature for what it is, did the BBC camera men step in and euthanize the water buffalo, or did they allow the Komodo to do it's natural method of feeding?
That's in the wild ..... ??? Ur enclosure is not the same environment .... A captive environment is completely different ....:suspicious:
Surely u must understand ur 4 walls is not the wild not shud I b compared ....
infernalis
04-13-13, 06:58 AM
Your right, but we are holding these animals captive against their wishes for our own personal amusement, that's why it's called "captivity"...
Why supress their natural instincts and behaviours just because they are locked in a box?
Are people euthanising roaches?? Locusts??
Who are we to determine what life forms are worthy of an "honorable consumption" and what life forms get to be eaten alive?
My primary concern will always be weather or not the food item can harm my reptiles.. not the other way around. ;)
smy_749
04-13-13, 06:59 AM
That's in the wild ..... ??? Ur enclosure is not the same environment .... A captive environment is completely different ....:suspicious:
Surely u must understand ur 4 walls is not the wild not shud I b compared ....
I'm all for doing things the 'humane' way. But I wouldn't call the plague, extinction of native species, and whatever other disasters humane, so rats aren't high on my 'treat humanely' list. I can't actually think of another animal I dislike with the exception of rats.
infernalis
04-13-13, 07:02 AM
Now now 749, I hold no hatred for rats, I love my rat colonies, they are beautiful animals. The social structure is fascinating to watch, and I treat mine like pets.
But at feeding time, they are food.. I have to detach the "pet" title and feed the reptiles.
varanus_mad
04-13-13, 07:07 AM
Now now 749, I hold no hatred for rats, I love my rat colonies, they are beautiful animals. The social structure is fascinating to watch, and I treat mine like pets.
But at feeding time, they are food.. I have to detach the "pet" title and feed the reptiles.
I feel the same its an odd sort of detachment when it comes to dispatch time...
i will admit to keeping a black and white rat called rocky cause i couldnt bring myself to perform the deed...
Think its cause i named him...
smy_749
04-13-13, 07:10 AM
Now now 749, I hold no hatred for rats, I love my rat colonies, they are beautiful animals. The social structure is fascinating to watch, and I treat mine like pets.
But at feeding time, they are food.. I have to detach the "pet" title and feed the reptiles.
I think everyone has a few animals they dislike, whether it be spiders, cows, bees, whatever. Mine is rats (not mice, only rats haha). I won't say I get enjoyment out of hearing one squeel or whatever (thats just creepy) , I've always fed frozen thawed just because its available and usually dont' have to do otherwise. But rats...do what you wish with them, no difference to me lol
infernalis
04-13-13, 07:14 AM
I name certain rats and keep them too. Over the years I have had 2 Naked rats, they just never grew hair. I named the first one "streaker" and the second one "Nude" neither were ever fed off.
One Alpha male that used to breed like a stud on extacy after snorting viagra, his name was "Buck" and he ruled the harem for 2 years. He kept those gals knocked up all the time.
Your right, but we are holding these animals captive against their wishes for our own personal amusement, that's why it's called "captivity"...
Why supress their natural instincts and behaviours just because they are locked in a box?
Are people euthanising roaches?? Locusts??
Who are we to determine what life forms are worthy of an "honorable consumption" and what life forms get to be eaten alive?
My primary concern will always be weather or not the food item can harm my reptiles.. not the other way around. ;)
Maybe it's because inverts don't feel pain .....:o
varanus_mad
04-13-13, 07:18 AM
Maybe it's because inverts don't feel pain .....:o
really?
prove it...
smy_749
04-13-13, 07:21 AM
They used to say that about fish as well, now I think they are beginning to change that view.
And infern, you'd be surprised at what people euthanize.....
really?
prove it...
Google it .... And search yourself .... Don't just take my word for it ... They have a completely different nervous system
smy_749
04-13-13, 07:27 AM
Google it .... And search yourself .... Don't just take my word for it ... They have a completely different nervous system
As I said before, and always say, science is never 'right'. We only narrow the possibilities and find the most likely scenario. We've been wrong initially with just about everything in science, 20 years from now, who knows what they will discover. Pluto isn't even a planet anymore, everything I learned was a lieeee :(
varanus_mad
04-13-13, 07:29 AM
Google it .... And search yourself .... Don't just take my word for it ... They have a completely different nervous system
i was taking the piss mate.
Inverts dont limp with broken legs In fact im not even sure they register they have missing limbs.
not to mention those parasites which eat them from the inside out perticularly in caterpillars...
Keep going until the parasite stops em...
That fungal one that converts them into mushrooms is quite cool how they keep going for ages.
As I said before, and always say, science is never 'right'. We only narrow the possibilities and find the most likely scenario. We've been wrong initially with just about everything in science, 20 years from now, who knows what they will discover. Pluto isn't even a planet anymore, everything I learned was a lieeee :(
Yeah well for the present u can only go on wots is at present a fact ... I can't see into the future ...:o
i was taking the piss mate.
Inverts dont limp with broken legs In fact im not even sure they register they have missing limbs.
not to mention those parasites which eat them from the inside out perticularly in caterpillars...
Keep going until the parasite stops em...
That fungal one that converts them into mushrooms is quite cool how they keep going for ages.
Lol I was being sarcy dear Shane ...:D
smy_749
04-13-13, 07:35 AM
Yeah well for the present u can only go on wots is at present a fact ... I can't see into the future ...:o
After taking 5 years of college science courses, and how they constantly talk about allllll these different theorists, and how the theory started way off and evolved into what we accept today as correct. After that many years of having the theory evolve, and at each stage they thought they were 100% correct, I'm hesitant to repeat the same mistake ;) I don't think most of the stuff we know is as simple as we think it is, so I just learn it to get a decent grade and doubt it all the while lol Biology has made me a philosophist hahaha
infernalis
04-13-13, 07:37 AM
I may not be an expert, but why do inverts run away? why do inverts struggle and writhe when attacked? why do some inverts have detachable appendages?
Maybe it's a survival instinct? could it be they realize their fate?
Sensory perception is necessary for all like forms to function, survival instinct is necessary for all life forms to function, therefore logic rather says that even in the most rudimentary way, an insect is afraid of dying.
(someone should tell that moth to stay out of the fire)
I may not be an expert, but why do inverts run away? why do inverts struggle and writhe when attacked? why do some inverts have detachable appendages?
Maybe it's a survival instinct? could it be they realize their fate?
Sensory perception is necessary for all like forms to function, survival instinct is necessary for all life forms to function, therefore logic rather says that even in the most rudimentary way, an insect is afraid of dying.
Absolutely agree but it doesn't stop people not caring about there welfare and suffering ... But for rodents that theory goes out the window and I'm merely speculating its because inverts don't feel pain although being aware of there fate ... :wacky:
smy_749
04-13-13, 07:42 AM
I may not be an expert, but why do inverts run away? why do inverts struggle and writhe when attacked? why do some inverts have detachable appendages?
Maybe it's a survival instinct? could it be they realize their fate?
Sensory perception is necessary for all like forms to function, survival instinct is necessary for all life forms to function, therefore logic rather says that even in the most rudimentary way, an insect is afraid of dying.
I wouldn't say afraid per se, but evolutionarily adapt for optimum survival, yes. Whether they understand the concept of fear or not, who knows, but they have definitely adapted to staying alive through toxins, camouflage, mimicry, etc. We have barely scratched the surface with regards to inverts in science...Bees and ants can communicate with each other and have pretty amazing community interactions, so I won't doubt their abilities to feel pain, fear death so soon
infernalis
04-13-13, 07:45 AM
Now your talking... See one of the side perks of living in a remote area, I get to watch a lot of wildlife, and the insect world is fascinating if one choses to pay attention to it.
Starbuck
04-13-13, 07:55 AM
I have a bachelors degree in entomology.
YES inverts do have a completely different nervous system.
NO most inverts are not social/don't have emotions like fear/anger/etc
YES invertebrate animals do feel pain. They will move away from painful stimuli, like heat, sharp objects, etc. and yes they will also react to limb amputation. Sure, their nervous systems are not as advanced as mammals, but they do react to these stimuli.
As for the parasites in caterpillars etc, i would say that is more of a kudos to the parasite than a short-coming of the caterpillar ;)
These parasites attack very specific parts of the insect host, preventing autoimmune responses, hijacking the nervous system forcing it to keep eating/growing. Many of our captive herps have parasites that never cause a problem/are evident such as low levels of GI invaders, the occasional tick on a wild caught animal... We never say it is because the reptile isn't feeling pain, but rather that the parasite is too sophisticated, and is itself focused on self preservation :)
There is evidence that bees, ants, and spiders can learn to associate certain stimuli with good things (i.e. if i land on this green platform and stay for 4 seconds food will appear), so it makes sense that they could do the same, and learn to avoid things which indicate negative stimuli (being eaten).
Beyond that, i think every animal on this planet has some degree of get-up-and-go when it comes to predator detection and self preservation.
Pirarucu
04-13-13, 08:00 AM
But I wouldn't call the plague, extinction of native species, and whatever other disasters humane,I'm going to go on a tangent for a moment.
While I agree that the Plague was not humane, the bottom line is that it was necessary. People became too overpopulated and were suffering from overcrowding, they didn't have enough food, etc, etc. Then the Plague came along and took out a percentage of the population. That left the survivors with lots of space, they had plenty of food and resources, and they flourished because of it. Most historians refer to the Black Death as something that occurred at the end of the Middle Ages. They don't make the connection. It did not just occur; it was the biological event that ended the Middle Ages. When the survivors were left with everything they needed, human innovation and advancements in technology took off, and a period of prosperity ensued, and there was an economic boom, which culminated in the Renaissance.
Something very similar is going to happen soon, and anyone who is paying attention can see it coming. We are so overpopulated that as a species we are weakened, and the further we push into the rainforests, the more chance we have of coming into contact with a virus that could jump from one species into ours, and the more crowded we are, are the easier it will be to spread from one person to another. It's already started happening. The AIDS virus is sweeping the globe. Breakouts of pathogens such as Ebola or Lassa are becoming ever more frequent. The problem with these is that they don't do their job well enough. They either don't spread easily, or they kill their hosts before they have a chance to infect more people. Soon we'll run into something (or release something) that doesn't have those constraints. A strain of Ebola exists which is airborne, but it only infects monkeys. It is incredibly similar to a strain that is extremely lethal in humans, so much so that you can't easily tell the difference. One small mutation and we could have an airborne strain of Ebola sweeping through the human species. On the other hand, it could be something released from a lab. Imagine if a weaponized strain of smallpox were let loose. Even the natural strain would go on a massive burn through the human species. If a release was done in a large city, planes would carry it all over the planet in a matter of days, and everyone's immunity to it has long since worn off.
No matter how it starts, the human species is going to have a major die off soon, and ultimately it will be a good thing. There will be new advances in technology, and a new economic boom, and nature will have reestablished the balance... And there won't be a thing we can do about it. The only thing we could do would be to prevent it by keeping our population under control, which we know won't be done.. So there you have it. Sorry about that, LOL. I have to make a big long post every now and again..
I have a bachelors degree in entomology.
YES inverts do have a completely different nervous system.
NO most inverts are not social/don't have emotions like fear/anger/etc
YES invertebrate animals do feel pain. They will move away from painful stimuli, like heat, sharp objects, etc. and yes they will also react to limb amputation. Sure, their nervous systems are not as advanced as mammals, but they do react to these stimuli.
As for the parasites in caterpillars etc, i would say that is more of a kudos to the parasite than a short-coming of the caterpillar ;)
These parasites attack very specific parts of the insect host, preventing autoimmune responses, hijacking the nervous system forcing it to keep eating/growing. Many of our captive herps have parasites that never cause a problem/are evident such as low levels of GI invaders, the occasional tick on a wild caught animal... We never say it is because the reptile isn't feeling pain, but rather that the parasite is too sophisticated, and is itself focused on self preservation :)
There is evidence that bees, ants, and spiders can learn to associate certain stimuli with good things (i.e. if i land on this green platform and stay for 4 seconds food will appear), so it makes sense that they could do the same, and learn to avoid things which indicate negative stimuli (being eaten).
Beyond that, i think every animal on this planet has some degree of get-up-and-go when it comes to predator detection and self preservation.
Good stuff ... I stand corrected .... :D
It's all moni food to me ....;)
smy_749
04-13-13, 08:21 AM
that was a good post, I didn't think about it as a 'benefit' because it sounds so evil but your right. I think we are going to just have a massive nuclear war though :P
And starbuck, with regards to self preservation, you can exclude humans from that hahahaah Half the stuff people put in their body is ....well not good stuff. lol
infernalis
04-13-13, 08:28 AM
Too many defenses in place for an effective nuclear strike campaign. NORAD / etc.. are all scouring for missiles, rockets, nuclear signatures, etc.
A rapidly replicating single cell organism can do so much more and all the military anti rocket equipment, drones and lasers cannot stop it.
You can shoot down a missile.. But that tourists that just ate a bowl of "jungle stew" in Bolivia and then flew home to Miami and coughed in a shopping mall, how do you shoot him down when you don't even know he's a biological weapon?
infernalis
04-13-13, 08:33 AM
What if AIDS spread like a common cold rather than requiring blood contact?? it would be just like a Stephen King novel. (The Stand)
The only humans left alive would be the few that have the genetic defect that renders them immune. (too lazy to look it up again, but there are people who are AIDS immune)
Something about lacking an enzyme that the AIDS virus needs to attach to their DNA strands. It's some sort of protein deficiency...
smy_749
04-13-13, 08:33 AM
Too many defenses in place for an effective nuclear strike campaign. NORAD / etc.. are all scouring for missiles, rockets, nuclear signatures, etc.
A rapidly replicating single cell organism can do so much more and all the military anti rocket equipment, drones and lasers cannot stop it.
You can shoot down a missile.. But that tourists that just ate a bowl of "jungle stew" in Bolivia and then flew home to Miami and coughed in a shopping mall, how do you shoot him down when you don't even know he's a biological weapon?
Good point, but I don't think that any country is completely invincible to attack, even us.
Pirarucu
04-13-13, 08:34 AM
Too many defenses in place for an effective nuclear strike campaign. NORAD / etc.. are all scouring for missiles, rockets, nuclear signatures, etc.
A rapidly replicating single cell organism can do so much more and all the military anti rocket equipment, drones and lasers cannot stop it.
You can shoot down a missile.. But that tourists that just ate a bowl of "jungle stew" in Bolivia and then flew home to Miami and coughed in a shopping mall, how do you shoot him down when you don't even know he's a biological weapon?Bingo. Nuclear weapons are too localized, even if a nuclear war did occur, (and it won't, for the reasons Wayne brought up) the impact on our species as a whole would be minuscule.
Pirarucu
04-13-13, 08:39 AM
What if AIDS spread like a common cold rather than requiring blood contact?? it would be just like a Stephen King novel. (The Stand)
The only humans left alive would be the few that have the genetic defect that renders them immune. (too lazy to look it up again, but there are people who are AIDS immune)
Something about lacking an enzyme that the AIDS virus needs to attach to their DNA strands. It's some sort of protein deficiency...This is the reason why biological agents are so beneficial. They never wipe out a population, they only thin it.
infernalis
04-13-13, 08:39 AM
Good point, but I don't think that any country is completely invincible to attack, even us.
It has already been proven, a covert terrorist act inflicts as much if not more damage than a calculated military strike.
And terrorists prey on collateral damage, so they make bloodier messes.
Here's the 411 - if those idiots are willing to come to America, go to our colleges and gain an American education just to go meet 72 virgins in the afterlife, then what makes you think they are incapable of shooting up with a virus and going to a few music festivals or peace rallies??
infernalis
04-13-13, 08:44 AM
This is the reason why biological agents are so beneficial. They never wipe out a population, they only thin it.
It poses some interesting thoughts though.
Throughout history, these events thinned populations, but survivors often banded into groups and a period of struggle would follow.
The really strong and resourceful quickly rise to positions of power, Think about it, one lone immune man inherits a military base...
Further thinning ensues.
varanus_mad
04-13-13, 08:51 AM
I have a bachelors degree in entomology.
YES inverts do have a completely different nervous system.
NO most inverts are not social/don't have emotions like fear/anger/etc
YES invertebrate animals do feel pain. They will move away from painful stimuli, like heat, sharp objects, etc. and yes they will also react to limb amputation. Sure, their nervous systems are not as advanced as mammals, but they do react to these stimuli.
As for the parasites in caterpillars etc, i would say that is more of a kudos to the parasite than a short-coming of the caterpillar ;)
These parasites attack very specific parts of the insect host, preventing autoimmune responses, hijacking the nervous system forcing it to keep eating/growing. Many of our captive herps have parasites that never cause a problem/are evident such as low levels of GI invaders, the occasional tick on a wild caught animal... We never say it is because the reptile isn't feeling pain, but rather that the parasite is too sophisticated, and is itself focused on self preservation :)
There is evidence that bees, ants, and spiders can learn to associate certain stimuli with good things (i.e. if i land on this green platform and stay for 4 seconds food will appear), so it makes sense that they could do the same, and learn to avoid things which indicate negative stimuli (being eaten).
Beyond that, i think every animal on this planet has some degree of get-up-and-go when it comes to predator detection and self preservation.
:D well what do you know we learn something new everyday.
smy_749
04-13-13, 09:29 AM
It has already been proven, a covert terrorist act inflicts as much if not more damage than a calculated military strike.
And terrorists prey on collateral damage, so they make bloodier messes.
Here's the 411 - if those idiots are willing to come to America, go to our colleges and gain an American education just to go meet 72 virgins in the afterlife, then what makes you think they are incapable of shooting up with a virus and going to a few music festivals or peace rallies??
Well I'm not gonna get into the whole terrorism thing. Nobody would deny that what happened on 9/11 etc. is terrorism. But I personally believe (don't get mad at me, its just my opinion) that we (those living in the U.S.A) are much, much, much worse with regards to bloody messes. Count the american soldier casualties, then count the Iraqi , Afghani, (go back far enough) japanese, native american, african american, casualties.....the numbers don't match. And most of the time the response I get is " if you don't like it than leave" and believe me, I plan on it once my dad gets off my back about finishing college.
Pirarucu
04-13-13, 09:53 AM
Well I'm not gonna get into the whole terrorism thing. Nobody would deny that what happened on 9/11 etc. is terrorism. But I personally believe (don't get mad at me, its just my opinion) that we (those living in the U.S.A) are much, much, much worse with regards to bloody messes. Count the american soldier casualties, then count the Iraqi , Afghani, (go back far enough) japanese, native american, african american, casualties.....the numbers don't match. And most of the time the response I get is " if you don't like it than leave" and believe me, I plan on it once my dad gets off my back about finishing college.Agreed, the US is a warmongering nation. We've spent a total of twenty-one years during which we were not at war. Those statistics speak for themselves, and they're part of the reason we have terrorist organizations targeting us..
smy_749
04-13-13, 09:56 AM
Agreed, the US is a warmongering nation. We've spent a total of twenty-one years during which we were not at war. Those statistics speak for themselves, and they're part of the reason we have terrorist organizations targeting us..
Although we could delve into this much further, we are getting way way way off topic, I just realized that when I saw "re: killing live prey" at the top of my response hahaha
Pirarucu
04-13-13, 11:25 AM
Although we could delve into this much further, we are getting way way way off topic, I just realized that when I saw "re: killing live prey" at the top of my response hahahaOnly a little, LOL.
I always use cervical dislocation when dispatching prey items. It is quick and humane. Were I dispatching large numbers, I would put them in a cooler, put a bucket of water in, dump some dry ice in the water, and close the lid.
Only a little, LOL.
I always use cervical dislocation when dispatching prey items. It is quick and humane. Were I dispatching large numbers, I would put them in a cooler, put a bucket of water in, dump some dry ice in the water, and close the lid.
The bucket method sound horrendous ....:o
Surely on mass gas would b best ....
infernalis
04-13-13, 04:04 PM
the bucket does gas them, the dry ice turns gasious quickly, the c02 floods the container, the dry ice freezes things fast too. It's a flash frozen gassing.
Pirarucu
04-13-13, 06:57 PM
the bucket does gas them, the dry ice turns gasious quickly, the c02 floods the container, the dry ice freezes things fast too. It's a flash frozen gassing.This. Dry ice in water turns into gaseous CO2, which then overflows the bucket and goes down to the mice in the bottom of the cooler, killing them quickly and painlessly.
smy_749
04-13-13, 07:00 PM
This. Dry ice in water turns into gaseous CO2, which then overflows the bucket and goes down to the mice in the bottom of the cooler, killing them quickly and painlessly.
I may have misunderstood, and I think v87 did too. You don't put the mice in the bucket of water right? The bucket of water is just in the cooler with the mice, and the cooler air comes out of the bucket and falls down so they never actually get wet, only cold air and gas?
Pirarucu
04-13-13, 07:10 PM
:shocked:I may have misunderstood, and I think v87 did too. You don't put the mice in the bucket of water right? The bucket of water is just in the cooler with the mice, and the cooler air comes out of the bucket and falls down so they never actually get wet, only cold air and gas?Correct, they are never in the water. That would be exceedingly cruel..
I may have misunderstood, and I think v87 did too. You don't put the mice in the bucket of water right? The bucket of water is just in the cooler with the mice, and the cooler air comes out of the bucket and falls down so they never actually get wet, only cold air and gas?
:shocked:Correct, they are never in the water. That would be exceedingly cruel..
Yep I thought the same as smy .... Thanks for the lesson and clear up ... I didn't knw that dry ice has this affect ... Nice one guys ...:D
not sure if anyone's ever tried this, but I have flicked a few mice in the face before and it either dies or faints.
smy_749
04-16-13, 10:45 AM
not sure if anyone's ever tried this, but I have flicked a few mice in the face before and it either dies or faints.
Lmao where you been nepoez. And why in the world did you flick a mouse in the face hahahahah
Lmao where you been nepoez. And why in the world did you flick a mouse in the face hahahahah
haha, it looked at me in a way I didn't like, jk. No I followed someone's advice in here to feed a fuzzy, but I was afraid it would bite my baby so I panicked and flicked it in the face and it either died or fainted.. then my guy ate it. I've been really busy at work lately so haven't been online too much.
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