View Full Version : The mangrove eating shrimp
smy_749
04-04-13, 05:42 PM
Indicus crunch - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u3UK2rTMgw)
Turn your volume up lol
Tried to get a better video but I dropped the shrimp while trying to get him out, and he grabbed it and retreated.
DeadlyDesires
04-04-13, 06:05 PM
thats 100% organic shrimp right?
smy_749
04-04-13, 06:09 PM
No its cooked (fried), it was left over from red lobster :-P
Just a quick question, what exactly is the difference between regular shrimp and organic anyways?
DeadlyDesires
04-04-13, 06:18 PM
im going to hope you were joking lol... the difference is organic doesn't have any preservatives in it and no fillers or artificial anything, if you feed regular shrimp you can make your monitor sick.
smy_749
04-04-13, 06:21 PM
im going to hope you were joking lol... the difference is organic doesn't have any preservatives in it and no fillers or artificial anything, if you feed regular shrimp you can make your monitor sick.
I'm going to start calling you debby downer lol
Debbie Downer Noise - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ_R-G_i4Xk)
DeadlyDesires
04-04-13, 06:26 PM
why would you call me debbie downer? you will realize that a lot of people who own monitors dont know half of what they need to know to keep it alive, much less help it thrive. i see some stuff that makes me wanna make sure everything is right when it comes to these guys and people owning them as pets.
smy_749
04-04-13, 06:37 PM
It doesn't have to be every comment on every thread by everyone who isn't a senior member here. Which I'm beginning to notice is becoming a pattern. I'm glad you feel so passionate about it, and are concerned for the monitors, but you don't have to try and find something wrong every time. Its just a video of a monitor eating something and making loud crunches.....and I actually knew you were going to ask me what hes eating.
And if you watch debby downer, she manages to ruin all the fun by saying something negative about everything.
infernalis
04-04-13, 06:39 PM
No its cooked (fried), it was left over from red lobster :-P
Just a quick question, what exactly is the difference between regular shrimp and organic anyways?
The primary "poison" in non organic shrimp is Sodium Tripolyphosphate, it's used to keep the shrimp shiny and slick and for "moisture & texture" however this same ingredient is also the primary agent used in laundry detergent, dish soap and car washing fluid.
Not something I would be comfortable feeding to reptiles.
DeadlyDesires
04-04-13, 06:51 PM
It doesn't have to be every comment on every thread by everyone who isn't a senior member here. Which I'm beginning to notice is becoming a pattern. I'm glad you feel so passionate about it, and are concerned for the monitors, but you don't have to try and find something wrong every time. Its just a video of a monitor eating something and making loud crunches.....and I actually knew you were going to ask me what hes eating.
And if you watch debby downer, she manages to ruin all the fun by saying something negative about everything.
you see it as negative, i see it as making sure you are feeding your lizard properly so it can thrive. when I started with monitors i had someone go through all of my threads and ask me more questions then i do and criticize me more than i do to other so i dont feel bad, if there is a chance it can save the monitor or make it better than i will ay what needs to be said.
Pirarucu
04-04-13, 06:52 PM
No its cooked (fried), it was left over from red lobster :-P
Just a quick question, what exactly is the difference between regular shrimp and organic anyways?Regular shrimp have lots of healthy, FDA approved chemicals and preservatives, maybe even some Chloramphenicol if you get really lucky and some slips in from some Asian farm...
smy_749
04-04-13, 06:53 PM
you see it as negative, i see it as making sure you are feeding your lizard properly so it can thrive. when I started with monitors i had someone go through all of my threads and ask me more questions then i do and criticize me more than i do to other so i dont feel bad, if there is a chance it can save the monitor or make it better than i will ay what needs to be said.
I don't care if you ask questions, but it doesnt have to be the only thing you do. On gabriellas thread all you did was speak negatively and demand pics of the enclosure. Don't give a negative vibe, try to do this thing called 'complimenting'. Your enclosure looks great, how deep is the substrate? Not , hmm this is confusing, why are you refusing to show me a pic??
smy_749
04-04-13, 06:56 PM
Regular shrimp have lots of healthy, FDA approved chemicals and preservatives, maybe even some Chloramphenicol if you get really lucky and some slips in from some Asian farm...
Thanks, my dad gets them whole sale and they are organic. But....he likes to eat them so he probably isn't going to be happy that I'm stealing them for a while. Any specific brands you guys prefer for shrimp/crayfish and approximate prices?
They aren't going to be the major portion of the diet, because my dubias will get out of hand. I stopped feeding them fish food, they are now eating some fruit, lots of carrots and dandelion greens.
Pirarucu
04-04-13, 06:56 PM
you see it as negative, i see it as making sure you are feeding your lizard properly so it can thrive. when I started with monitors i had someone go through all of my threads and ask me more questions then i do and criticize me more than i do to other so i dont feel bad, if there is a chance it can save the monitor or make it better than i will ay what needs to be said.While I agree that it is good to look out for others, maybe it would be best to step back and see if there is any evidence of improper husbandry? Not including every detail does not necessarily mean that something is wrong...
Also, the video description says "Mangrove eating large organic shrimp". ;)
DeadlyDesires
04-04-13, 06:56 PM
i aid confusing because it was asked SEVERAL times before and all she had to show was pics of the monitor only, and even in the end of the thread she said its not in the best enclosure its not big enough which is what i thought, you will find, that most people wont show you pictures or always make excuses when they are doing something wrong. it has always been the case so i get skeptical of people, yes, but only because i care about the monitor, they can hate me all they want, but if something i say can help that lizard than its well worth the hate in my opinion.
DeadlyDesires
04-04-13, 06:58 PM
While I agree that it is good to look out for others, maybe it would be best to step back and see if there is any evidence of improper husbandry? Not including every detail does not necessarily mean that something is wrong...
Also, the video description says "Mangrove eating large organic shrimp". ;)
i did not see that part as i did not scroll down just looked at the video. my apologies.
smy_749
04-04-13, 06:59 PM
i aid confusing because it was asked SEVERAL times before and all she had to show was pics of the monitor only, and even in the end of the thread she said its not in the best enclosure its not big enough which is what i thought, you will find, that most people wont show you pictures or always make excuses when they are doing something wrong. it has always been the case so i get skeptical of people, yes, but only because i care about the monitor, they can hate me all they want, but if something i say can help that lizard than its well worth the hate in my opinion.
Deadly, I agree with you. I'm just saying, the way you advise people is the most important thing. You could be absolutely right about everything, but if you don't come at it in a gentle, polite manner, they aren't going to take your advise. Gabriella responded "nobody cares what you think" because of the way you asked her. Try to have fun, enjoy what you see, and discuss husbandry at the same time, not be the husbandry police.
DeadlyDesires
04-04-13, 07:03 PM
Deadly, I agree with you. I'm just saying, the way you advise people is the most important thing. You could be absolutely right about everything, but if you don't come at it in a gentle, polite manner, they aren't going to take your advise. Gabriella responded "nobody cares what you think" because of the way you asked her. Try to have fun, enjoy what you see, and discuss husbandry at the same time, not be the husbandry police.
It doesn't really matter how "nice" i am to people about their problems, they will still see it as a lash out towards them i was being as nice as i could when i asked about the pictures that she has not posted yet. im a very blunt person and say whatever, if i offend someone it is not my intention its just how it comes out, i have had a monitor die on me before because of things that were out of my control when i got her and partially because of my husbandry so i will probably never stop trying to make sure everyone else's is right so they wont have to go through what i did.
smy_749
04-04-13, 07:06 PM
It doesn't really matter how "nice" i am to people about their problems, they will still see it as a lash out towards them i was being as nice as i could when i asked about the pictures that she has not posted yet. im a very blunt person and say whatever, if i offend someone it is not my intention its just how it comes out, i have had a monitor die on me before because of things that were out of my control when i got her and partially because of my husbandry so i will probably never stop trying to make sure everyone else's is right so they wont have to go through what i did.
It does matter how nice you are, you don't want to push people away from the forums like other forums do (1 in particular comes to mind). Keep it friendly, people will take your advice, thats why we are hear. To learn, offer input, and provide the best husbandry. But you need to be polite about it or your wasting your breath (keystrokes).
Pirarucu
04-04-13, 07:22 PM
It does matter how nice you are, you don't want to push people away from the forums like other forums do (1 in particular comes to mind). Keep it friendly, people will take your advice, thats why we are hear. To learn, offer input, and provide the best husbandry. But you need to be polite about it or your wasting your breath (keystrokes).This. You won't teach someone to use a shovel properly by hitting them over the head with it.
smy_749
04-04-13, 07:23 PM
This. You won't teach someone to use a shovel properly by hitting them over the head with it.
Depends on what you define as proper use of a shovel hahah
Pirarucu
04-04-13, 07:35 PM
Depends on what you define as proper use of a shovel hahahVery true.
KORBIN5895
04-04-13, 10:16 PM
Hey Deadly be as blunt as you like just make sure that your info is correct... .. unlike the following post.
im going to hope you were joking lol... the difference is organic doesn't have any preservatives in it and no fillers or artificial anything, if you feed regular shrimp you can make your monitor sick.
DeadlyDesires
04-04-13, 11:49 PM
How is that wrong?
varanus_mad
04-05-13, 12:42 AM
How is that wrong?
Because not all organic shrimp is free from perservative etc etc.
Organic can be a very misleading label...
Check the ingredients...
KORBIN5895
04-05-13, 02:14 AM
How is that wrong?
If you ask nicely I'm sure Wayne could elaborate.
DeadlyDesires
04-05-13, 02:46 AM
Because not all organic shrimp is free from perservative etc etc.
Organic can be a very misleading label...
Check the ingredients...
oh, well the ones i buy say preservative free.. and no artificial flavors. i always check ingredients.
DeadlyDesires
04-05-13, 02:46 AM
If you ask nicely I'm sure Wayne could elaborate.
Wayne was the one who told me in the first place.
infernalis
04-05-13, 05:25 AM
The store I get these from also has a sign in front of the counter "Certified Organic Seafood"
http://www.savannahmonitor.net/Exanthematicus/images/shrimps.jpg
KORBIN5895
04-05-13, 05:42 AM
Wayne, what was the preservatives in the organic shrimp you fed Chomper?
infernalis
04-05-13, 06:37 AM
Wayne, what was the preservatives in the organic shrimp you fed Chomper?
The shrimp I fed Chomper was not organic, It was the cheap garbage wal mart sells.
smy_749
04-05-13, 06:49 AM
Because not all organic shrimp is free from perservative etc etc.
Organic can be a very misleading label...
Check the ingredients...
This is why I asked. Both of them are probably bad honestly, and organic is most likely a scheme to raise prices. But they have to do something to put the label. I don't think either one are fed a healthy diet. But I'll buy the organic just because its less harmful I guess.
KORBIN5895
04-05-13, 07:23 AM
The shrimp I fed Chomper was not organic, It was the cheap garbage wal mart sells.
I thought you said it was organic but has a phosphate (?) Preservative......
Easier to just go with crayfish (cheaper too ;) ). No worry about preservatives, salt content, thiaminase, etc.
Easier to just go with crayfish (cheaper too ;) ). No worry about preservatives, salt content, thiaminase, etc.
Don't some indicus complex have a salt excretion gland ????
They do indeed. Unfortunately their preservatives excretion gland (liver) can only handle so much. And so far they havent evolved a thiamine production gland either. ;) Silly monitors
They do indeed. Unfortunately their preservatives excretion gland (liver) can only handle so much. And so far they havent evolved a thiamine production gland either. ;) Silly monitors
Now when u say excretion gland do u mean only there liver or a specifically designed gland under the nare in which they specially excrete the salt straight out ? As I knw a few have this adaptation ....
Not that I don't agree silly monis :p
infernalis
04-05-13, 10:27 AM
I thought you said it was organic but has a phosphate (?) Preservative......
I think the wires got crossed. I now purchase organic, back then I purchased whatever was on sale at the moment.
murrindindi
04-05-13, 11:05 AM
I doubt very much "Chomper" died because the shrimp he ate wasn`t organic (I don`t think Wayne`s inferring that at all)!?
As has been mentioned by "varanus mad", the word "organic" doesn`t necessarily mean it`s free of preservatives, etc. I`ve heard feeding eggs leads to health problems too, another "overkill"; they would need to feed almost exclusively on them to develop problems. I`ve heard goldfish can never be fed either (yes they can), though I`m not suggesting they form a very regular or important (large) part of the diet.
Most captive Varanids die too soon because of poor conditions, not because they ate some supposedly "unhealthy" dietary items on occasion. ;)
murrindindi
04-05-13, 11:06 AM
Don't some indicus complex have a salt excretion gland ????
Hi, yes they do have salt secreting glands!
Now when u say excretion gland do u mean only there liver or a specifically designed gland under the nare in which they specially excrete the salt straight out ? As I knw a few have this adaptation ....
Not that I don't agree silly monis :p
Sorry the liver reference was just a joke referring to the organ responsible for getting rid of the preservatives, not the salt. Apparently I think Im funnier than I actually am. :D Which is ok, because I think Im really funny.
Yes, youre right in saying that the salt secreting glands are in the nostrils.
KORBIN5895
04-05-13, 04:02 PM
I doubt very much "Chomper" died because the shrimp he ate wasn`t organic (I don`t think Wayne`s inferring that at all)!? . ;)
No he never inferred that at all.
smy_749
04-05-13, 05:30 PM
Another updated video, he basically hates me. I've never actually touched him, including when he arrived. I untied the bag and let him find his way out.
Shy monitor - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlR1Z4vrfDo)
infernalis
04-05-13, 05:48 PM
Rather than infer anything at all. Here is how I came up with such a valid concern.
I am extremely active among the Thamnophis communities, and if you know about the species, they are fish eaters.
It was common practice among many of us to buy fish fillets and cut them into strips.
People would lose snakes, and we would all wonder why, I lost a bunch of very expensive Infernalis within hours of eating Wal Mart fish. So I read the label for the first time.
Gotta love the information superhighway, a little digging around and there it was, Veterinarians actually tell people NOT to feed certain dog and cat foods to your pets, because this same ingredient. It's a commercial water softening agent that makes sea food look appealing in the store.
The material data safety sheet lists it as a poison with side effects, now compound the fact that snakes and lizards have tiny little livers and kidneys, it would take proportionately far smaller amounts of this toxin to put your animal into a health risk.
Pirarucu
04-05-13, 06:02 PM
Another updated video, he basically hates me. I've never actually touched him, including when he arrived. I untied the bag and let him find his way out.
Shy monitor - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlR1Z4vrfDo)Very pretty, I love the patterning.. Has there been a verdict on whether or not it's a juxtindicus?
DeadlyDesires
04-05-13, 06:08 PM
Another updated video, he basically hates me. I've never actually touched him, including when he arrived. I untied the bag and let him find his way out.
Shy monitor - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlR1Z4vrfDo)
He is pretty, how big do they get?
smy_749
04-05-13, 06:13 PM
Well, from what I can see even though hes usually pretty muddy, he does fit the description for juxtindicus with regards to tail/neck patterning, the only thing is his throat is not white, its a bit peachy. No blue whatsoever, and the yellows are not deep yellow, more of an off white. Heres one more vid I took, not the best video taker though.
climbing vid - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq7QUVTyX_M)
smy_749
04-05-13, 06:15 PM
He is pretty, how big do they get?
Like any species they vary, usually somewhere from 3 to 5 feet, somewhat heavy bodied (more than peachies or roughnecks). Type in varanus indicus in youtube, theres a guy with a log going down onto his couch from the enclosure with a very large one showing its ability to use its 'semi-prehensile' tail.
DeadlyDesires
04-05-13, 06:21 PM
Like any species they vary, usually somewhere from 3 to 5 feet, somewhat heavy bodied (more than peachies or roughnecks). Type in varanus indicus in youtube, theres a guy with a log going down onto his couch from the enclosure with a very large one showing its ability to use its 'semi-prehensile' tail.
thats cool, so they need same size enclosure as a sav then huh? how big is he now?
smy_749
04-05-13, 06:33 PM
thats cool, so they need same size enclosure as a sav then huh? how big is he now?
No, I think they need something like larger. It depends on the size, but if its on the larger end I would say like....8x8x6 or something. Not sure exactly what the plan is yet, my new house has a green house and a nice large room to the side (like an indoor patio, Idk what they are actually called) . I'm going to check temps and see if they will work for the warmer months. If not he will need to be housed in my bedroom or the basement.
http://photos.listhub.net/CTMLS/G626469/9?lm=20120905T202820
That room on the left side maybe be where his new enclosure goes.
DeadlyDesires
04-05-13, 06:44 PM
very cool.. you could always install lights and heat in that patio area so you could house him out there you know. it wouldn't be too hard. he would love it too.
smy_749
04-05-13, 06:54 PM
very cool.. you could always install lights and heat in that patio area so you could house him out there you know. it wouldn't be too hard. he would love it too.
The problem is that it gets really cold in the winter. I'd rather just build a very large patio cage inside the patio. Easier for substrate reasons, heating, and I will have usable patio space if I want to add others (or sit in the room and watch him :P)
DeadlyDesires
04-05-13, 07:57 PM
That's cool..
varanus_mad
04-06-13, 01:49 AM
Well, from what I can see even though hes usually pretty muddy, he does fit the description for juxtindicus with regards to tail/neck patterning, the only thing is his throat is not white, its a bit peachy. No blue whatsoever, and the yellows are not deep yellow, more of an off white. Heres one more vid I took, not the best video taker though.
climbing vid - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq7QUVTyX_M)
Ive dropped someone a pm for you bud who will know for sure... given he keeps juxti LOL
smy_749
04-06-13, 06:55 AM
Ive dropped someone a pm for you bud who will know for sure... given he keeps juxti LOL
Well that was nice of you. Thank you lol The attached pic is a bit more clear than the videos. Its not my picture (I'm still wondering how he managed to get it to sit on his hand, when I open the cage for any reason he turns into a ninja...or rambo) but it is the exact animal.
DeadlyDesires
04-06-13, 11:44 AM
Well that was nice of you. Thank you lol The attached pic is a bit more clear than the videos. Its not my picture (I'm still wondering how he managed to get it to sit on his hand, when I open the cage for any reason he turns into a ninja...or rambo) but it is the exact animal.
do you work with him with tong feeding and getting him "used" to you presence? like opening the cage and just laying your hand in there for about 5-10 mins letting him see your not a threat? he will get better just takes some time.
smy_749
04-06-13, 12:22 PM
do you work with him with tong feeding and getting him "used" to you presence? like opening the cage and just laying your hand in there for about 5-10 mins letting him see your not a threat? he will get better just takes some time.
I'm not planning on laying my hand in his cage. He won't take from the tongs usually. He'll figure it out eventually that I'm not a thread, he will associate me/opening the cage/tongs with him getting dinner and chill out a bit. As for holding him, I don't care if he never allows it or I would have gotten a dog. Hes a tree species, will take much more work than a bosc and probably never reach the same level anyways.
DeadlyDesires
04-06-13, 01:48 PM
well if your afraid of being bit lol you can put a glove on when you lay your hand in the cage... eventually he will take from the tongs though you should try the tong feeding. also do you want him to associate every time you open the cage to be feeding time? this can make them a little more aggressive IMO because they think you are always going to feed them and they can snap at you. he should associate the *tongs* with feeding not you opening the door.
smy_749
04-06-13, 02:13 PM
No I just don't want to sit on my floor with my hand in his cage while it looses all its humidity and heat. His windows are 2 feet by 1.5 and he has 2 o them. My computer desk is directly infront of his windows so he sits and watches me all day, he will figure it out hes pretty smart. As for getting bit, anyone with a brain should be afraid of getting bit....by a monitor who will possibly bite. So if he was a biter, I would absolutely be afraid of getting bit. However he doesn't bite, he just hisses and makes a run for it, not even tail whips. And it will still hurt very bad, and probably draw blood, even with a glove. This species is DESIGNED to eat all sorts of mollusks and crush hard shells. He has yet to snap, and thats not what I'm worried about. I don't need to hold him, and I don't need a big lizard that sits on my lap and answers when I call its name. If I can leave him in his cage untouched, happy as can be, healthy as can be, and watch him through the glass, mission accomplished. Maybe he will tame down with age as he becomes more accustomed to routine , since they are very well at recognizing/practicing routine, even in the wild. And maybe he wont become tame, don't know, don't care.
DeadlyDesires
04-06-13, 02:30 PM
lol ok.. that works, i like to pet mine though lol.. he still hisses and backs away
varanus_mad
04-07-13, 02:31 AM
No I just don't want to sit on my floor with my hand in his cage while it looses all its humidity and heat. His windows are 2 feet by 1.5 and he has 2 o them. My computer desk is directly infront of his windows so he sits and watches me all day, he will figure it out hes pretty smart. As for getting bit, anyone with a brain should be afraid of getting bit....by a monitor who will possibly bite. So if he was a biter, I would absolutely be afraid of getting bit. However he doesn't bite, he just hisses and makes a run for it, not even tail whips. And it will still hurt very bad, and probably draw blood, even with a glove. This species is DESIGNED to eat all sorts of mollusks and crush hard shells. He has yet to snap, and thats not what I'm worried about. I don't need to hold him, and I don't need a big lizard that sits on my lap and answers when I call its name. If I can leave him in his cage untouched, happy as can be, healthy as can be, and watch him through the glass, mission accomplished. Maybe he will tame down with age as he becomes more accustomed to routine , since they are very well at recognizing/practicing routine, even in the wild. And maybe he wont become tame, don't know, don't care.
Good answer. its a mangrove there bud... Hes not sure what type though LMFAO
smy_749
04-07-13, 06:50 AM
Good answer. its a mangrove there bud... Hes not sure what type though LMFAO
Its the long lost loch ness mangrove subspecies. I think I'll repost him for a few g's.
It doesn't have to be every comment on every thread by everyone who isn't a senior member here. Which I'm beginning to notice is becoming a pattern. I'm glad you feel so passionate about it, and are concerned for the monitors, but you don't have to try and find something wrong every time. Its just a video of a monitor eating something and making loud crunches.....and I actually knew you were going to ask me what hes eating.
And if you watch debby downer, she manages to ruin all the fun by saying something negative about everything.
LOL... about time someone else noticed this.
smy_749
04-08-13, 06:20 PM
Here is a perty pick of the little guy. I did an experiment with my 120 watt bulb to see how temps would be. Humidity didn't drop too low, basking was good, and the temp gradient was perfect. Then I came home from a run, and the light was off....with a crack and mud on it :D I guess he didn't like it. Now I have the 50 watt flood and 60 watt ceramic again.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579567_124042124453886_200730504_n.jpg
Pirarucu
04-08-13, 06:39 PM
He is a very pretty monitor. Yeah, if water touches a bulb (moist dirt too) then the rapid cooling of the bulb surface can cause it to shatter. Halogen bulbs being cooler and more sturdy are less likely to break like this.
smy_749
04-08-13, 06:44 PM
He is a very pretty monitor. Yeah, if water touches a bulb (moist dirt too) then the rapid cooling of the bulb surface can cause it to shatter. Halogen bulbs being cooler and more sturdy are less likely to break like this.
Ah makes sense. I just thought he hit it really hard or something lol He has the same 'travel route' EVERY time. Warm side hide , nice and muddy. Or basking spot nice and muddy. He sees me, jets across the front of the cage to the cool side hide. Tunnels under the leaves (as if I cant see him lol). Then he pokes his head out eventually, hops in the water pool and back to his warm side hide.
Point of the story is, I only see his true colors if I catch him in the last part of his routine after going for a swim lol.
Also, theres quite a few ants in the cage I noticed. (not hundreds or anything, maybe like 40 or 50 and I squish the ones I see). Anyways I placed a mouse in there the other day and the ants went all over it. So now I leave his mouse floating in his water dish, ants can't swim :-P lol
Not gonna stress it I have to take the cage apart and rebuild it in 2 weeks anyways.
infernalis
04-09-13, 03:22 PM
the ants are not hurting anything. They are excellent cleanup insects too.
smy_749
04-09-13, 04:29 PM
the ants are not hurting anything. They are excellent cleanup insects too.
Yea I just didn't want them to eat the mouse, it bothered me I wasn't trying to feed them haha.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/535823_124406191084146_1754979409_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/c68.0.403.403/p403x403/547460_124406194417479_1450308005_n.jpg
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