Quick ad easy incubator build

[Gregg M]

Being that we are going to be getting 3 times the amount of eggs as usual this season, I was forced to build a couple of more incubators. Not really a bad thing. LOL. Total time to build is about 8 minutes an incubator.

Anyway, I figured since I was building I should take some photos and document just how fast and easy it really is. Maybe this will help those who would like to build their own instead of buying some of those crappy commercially available ones.

Here it goes...

First, you need a wine chiller or any small refridgerator. I like to use the wine chillers because of the clear glass fronts. I can check on eggs without having to open the incubator.

Wine chiller
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8521/8604216703_ba0caffede_c.jpg

Next, you will need a drill with a spade bit to drill a hole for the heating element wire (heat tape, heat mat, heat cable)

I use roughly 4 feet of 11 inch flexwatt heat tape rolled up to heat my incubators.

Drill and spade bit
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8265/8605235414_5f069a89e4_c.jpg

Next, you need a quality proportional thermostat. You want something reliable that will last. Do not skimp and be cheap when it comes to this. It is the most important part of your incubator.

We are big fans of Reptile Basics line of thermostats, They are ver reliable and look awesome. It is a very good thermostat. We use them for both our incubators and rack systems.

Quality proportional thermostat
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8605233804_8a74a159c4_c.jpg

You will then need a heat source. Like I said, I like to use about 4 feet of 11 inch flexwatt heat tape rolled up and set at the bottom of the incubator. This creates a nice even heat distribution with needing to use fans.

You may also need wire cutters/strippers, electrical tape and some wire caps.

So, you start by drilling a hole in the back of the wine chiller or refridgerator big enough to fit 2 small wires through. Go from the outside in to avoid hitting any tubes or the motor.

Drilling hole
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8246/8604134695_a3c922fe7a_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8604136259_f2566a4964_c.jpg

Now, this particular heat tape came wired already so I had to cut it and resplice it.

Cut electrical wire
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8242/8605245240_84e39573ce_c.jpg

[Gregg M]

So now you run the wire for the heat tape through the hole you have just drilled and set your heat tape in.

Heat tape set in incubator
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8526/8605242014_a7cd44d1b8_c.jpg

Now, if need be, resplice the wire for the heat tape.

Resplicing wire
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8542/8604144603_7a57a28d62_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8530/8605248242_0b0dc0dc0f_c.jpg

Ok, after you hav spliced the wire it is time to insert the thermostat probe through the hole into the incubator.

Inserting thermostat probe
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8526/8605250436_9a9f7818f0_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8382/8605251444_02b0b3d2b9_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8102/8604149793_f04b05f104_c.jpg

I like to set the probe somewhere in the middle of the incubator. It allows temperatures to be stable throught the entire incubator.

So next, you plug the heat tape into the thermostat and plug your thermostat into the wall socket. Set your thermostat to whatever temp you require and your incubator os up and running and ready for eggs.

Setting up stat
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8532/8605254300_22735dbff3_c.jpg

Finished incubator
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8125/8604216011_54daa14cb5_b.jpg

[bcr229]

That is awesome!

[shaunyboy]

great thread mate

those thermostats look like a good bit of kit

cheers shaun

[Lickeypie]

Great pictures!

[mykee]

That is amazing. For an eight minute build, I like it but there are a few fundamental issues with your incubator. Nothing that will kill eggs, but some stuff that I would rather not be copied by others.

1. Rolled up heat tape: fire hazard. Heat tape is meant to be rolled out and laid flat. Stacking it like you did creates additional heat between the layers and may cause fire.
For a 4-5 cu. ft. incubator, you also overkilled it on the amount of tape you used.
2. Fan: You need one to circulate the air. Period. No further explanation provided.
3. Probe placement; near the heat source down low is NOT the place for a probe. Up high is where you want it. Heat rises. The temperatures in your incubator (coupled with the fact that you have no fan to move the air) may be 10-15 degrees higher up at the top than it is where you have your probe.
Dangerous.

[lady_bug87]

This may be a stupid question but where do you put the fan?

[Mark Taylor]

In the middle at the back I would say or maybe on each side depends how big the fan. They are all good points that mykee said.

[Gregg M]

1. Rolled up heat tape: fire hazard. Heat tape is meant to be rolled out and laid flat. Stacking it like you did creates additional heat between the layers and may cause fire.For a 4-5 cu. ft. incubator, you also overkilled it on the amount of tape you used.

No, it is not a fire hazard. Having it hooked up to thermostat keeps it from overheating. It can never get hot enought to cause a melt or fire.

We have also expeimented for years with different lengths of heat tape. The reason why we use 4 feet is because it actually does not have to get as hot to heat the incubator. You call it overkill, I call it what is needed to run the incubator efficiently and safely.

2. Fan: You need one to circulate the air. Period. No further explanation provided.

When you make a sweeping statement like that, you should present an explanation. Its like me saying bigfoot is real, period, no further explanation provided.

Why is a fan needed to circulate air. I think that the thousands of animals hatched in incubators without fans proves that fans are not needed.

3. Probe placement; near the heat source down low is NOT the place for a probe. Up high is where you want it. Heat rises. The temperatures in your incubator (coupled with the fact that you have no fan to move the air) may be 10-15 degrees higher up at the top than it is where you have your probe.
Dangerous.

The probe is placed in the center. And the hotter part is down by the heat tape. Being that we have built about 15 of these incubators the exact same way, I know how they work and what the temperature variations are inside them.

The air circulates naturally due to the action of warm air rising and cool air dropping. It starts warm at the heat source, cools at the top, drops back down to the heat source and so on.

Do not tell me what they temp variation is in the incubators I build or use. The temp difference from top to bottom shelf is about a degree and a half.

My "dangerous" incubators have been hatching reptile eggs for over 10 years. So if you are going to state your opinion on a subject, state it as such. Do not state it as factual information. Especially when what you are saying is way off.

Have a good one.

This may be a stupid question but where do you put the fan?

Fans are not needed.

In the middle at the back I would say or maybe on each side depends how big the fan. They are all good points that mykee said.

Is this information based on your extensive experience with building incubators and incubating eggs in them?

[MDT]

Gregg...pretty cool design. Sounds like you have a definite track record with these. Can you give a rough cost per unit? Also, having never incubated eggs (but moving toward that), what are the pros and cons of the commercial ones vs your design? Thanks in advance!

[KORBIN5895]

The only change I can recommend would be to drop the spade bit in favor of a similar sized bi-metal hole saw of the same diameter. It would make the drilling easier if it was long enough.

Other than that I was inspired for a conversion I am doing.

[Mark Taylor]

Eeeeeeerrrr NO sorry if I offended you:o. Mykee's point's seemed clear and justified but then you corrected him and me. So sorry again.

I will start again great build and thanks for sharing.:)

[mykee]

Alright, you want to get into it Gregg, ok, here we go:

The acceptable amount of any kind of heat for an enclosed space is 10-15 watts per cu. ft.
You have twice that.
I'll explain; your thermostat is working fine, and the desired temp is reached, the heat tape turns off, and even though the tape went off at say 90 degrees, because of the overkill with heat, it will continue to give off supplemental heat, shooting the temps in your incubator WAY over the set temp of 90. If you are ok with such a large variant, cool. Just trying to state some FACTS (that I have from the dozen or so years of not only building my own incubators, but building them for other breeders as well).
When you use less heat, or the proper amount, when the temp you have set for your thermostat is reached, (granted the heat source has to work a little harder to get to temp), but it wont shoot the temps up over what you require.
Since you've been hatching stuff for so long, you know that too hot kills, too cool doesn't.
ALSO a FACT.

Second problem with your heat tape is the layering you have; the temps won't exceed the desired temps externally of the roll, but in the tiny little air gaps BETWEEN the overlapping tape, that air is getting superheated from both sides, thereby increasing your chances of melting the tape or blowing it out.
ALSO a FACT.

A fan: (Which should be mounted at the top of the incubator blowing down to move that hot air that accumulates up there). I use fans in every incubator I build; why? Because hot air rises. Plain and simple. Without a fan, there is no Magical Unicorn Force inside of the incubator that is moving the air in there around. The temperature variation between the bottom of the incubator where the cooler air is and the top, where the warmer air is could be a difference of up to 5 degrees.
ALSO a FACT.

So Gregg, if you choose to build a half-assed incubator I could frankly care less, I'm not in the business of convincing people to do things MY way. I am however, a huge proponent of doing things the RIGHT way. But when you proceed to tell people that you built your "Eight Minute Incubator" solid, well and intelligently, I have an issue with that, because you did none of those things.

For those of you looking to build an incubator; take more than eight minutes and do it correctly or don't bother doing it at all. After all, better safe than sorry.

[Mark Taylor]

Or not!:suspicious:

[Gregg M]

Alright, you want to get into it Gregg, ok, here we go:

The acceptable amount of any kind of heat for an enclosed space is 10-15 watts per cu. ft.
You have twice that.
I'll explain; your thermostat is working fine, and the desired temp is reached, the heat tape turns off, and even though the tape went off at say 90 degrees, because of the overkill with heat, it will continue to give off supplemental heat, shooting the temps in your incubator WAY over the set temp of 90. If you are ok with such a large variant, cool. Just trying to state some FACTS (that I have from the dozen or so years of not only building my own incubators, but building them for other breeders as well).
When you use less heat, or the proper amount, when the temp you have set for your thermostat is reached, (granted the heat source has to work a little harder to get to temp), but it wont shoot the temps up over what you require.
Since you've been hatching stuff for so long, you know that too hot kills, too cool doesn't.
ALSO a FACT.

Firstly, I did not want to "get into it"... I made a post and you TRIED to crap on it with nothing but your own opinion.
Now, on to the topic.
So if this is all facts you are laying out here, why is it that my incubators run at a constant temp? Why do the temps NOT shoot way over the desired temp? Why am I able to hatch hundreds of reptiles every season in my incubators?

Also, one of the reasons I use the amount of heat tape is because of exactly what you mentioned. The heating element does not have to work as hard nor will it get as hot as hot as a shorter length.

Please, state what you think as opinion, not as fact.

Second problem with your heat tape is the layering you have; the temps won't exceed the desired temps externally of the roll, but in the tiny little air gaps BETWEEN the overlapping tape, that air is getting superheated from both sides, thereby increasing your chances of melting the tape or blowing it out.
ALSO a FACT.

It does not matter what temp the heating element is at. The heating element will always be a few degrees hotter than the air in the incubator. You do not set your desired temp to what the heating element is. You set your temps to what you want where the eggs will be sitting. The thermostat probe and its placement determines when the heating element is shut off.

A fan: (Which should be mounted at the top of the incubator blowing down to move that hot air that accumulates up there). I use fans in every incubator I build; why? Because hot air rises. Plain and simple. Without a fan, there is no Magical Unicorn Force inside of the incubator that is moving the air in there around. The temperature variation between the bottom of the incubator where the cooler air is and the top, where the warmer air is could be a difference of up to 5 degrees.
ALSO a FACT.

No, it is not a magical force. It is a natural force called convection air current.
And no, Your facts are not facts. How can you sit there and tell me what the temp differences are inside my incubators? I am using them every season with outstanding results. I have been for well over a decade...

YOU can build YOUR incubators anyway you like. If it works for you, thats great. I am sure they work perfectly. But so do mine.

So Gregg, if you choose to build a half-assed incubator I could frankly care less, I'm not in the business of convincing people to do things MY way. I am however, a huge proponent of doing things the RIGHT way. But when you proceed to tell people that you built your "Eight Minute Incubator" solid, well and intelligently, I have an issue with that, because you did none of those things.

For those of you looking to build an incubator; take more than eight minutes and do it correctly or don't bother doing it at all. After all, better safe than sorry.

So, what makes your way the "right way" over mine? If it is your opinion that my way is wrong or half assed, thats fine. You have a right to your opinion. The FACT is, my incubators have been workng perfectly for years. So if it is doing the job it is intended to do, why is it half assed or wrong? Because I did not do it the way YOU prefer? Wind your neck in a bit and drop the ego. The FACT is, my incubators work and have for many years. I do not breed snakes and lizards so I can put the eggs in something that will not work perfectly to hatch them as I am sure you would not as well.

You have your way, I have mine. I share what works well for me. Mine may be a bit more simple than yours. I have never seen the need for fans. Air circulates fine, eggs do not overheat or fail to hatch, I have never had a fire or a melt.

Not sure why you insist on insulting me and my intelligence and trying to make it as if I did something wrong by posting this. There really is no need to be a complete douche about it. I have been doing this long enough to know what works. I also do not have a line of incubation products because I do not know what I am doing when it comes to reptile egg incubation.

You have some personality issues my friend, and you shoud get then sorted.

[drewkore]

There is nothing "magical" about unicorn force. That is pure science!

[MDT]

......so......?

[Gregg M]

Gregg...pretty cool design. Sounds like you have a definite track record with these. Can you give a rough cost per unit? Also, having never incubated eggs (but moving toward that), what are the pros and cons of the commercial ones vs your design? Thanks in advance!

Wine chiller- $50 bucks used. Picked up 2 of them.

Heat tape and thermostat- $200 band new.

Total cost was $250 plus a few minutes of my time.

Pros amd cons.

I see no cons to building your own incubator. Unless you post how you do it here and Some jackass know it all tells you it is not the right way to do it.

The pros are, you can make them whatever size you need.

You can make it the way you like.

Size for size, it is much cheaper to build your own. A commercially available incubator will cost you much more money. If you can not be bothered building your own and commercially available incubator is a good way to go. If you like to tinker and do things your own way, a build is the way to go.

[erichillkeast]

So if this is all facts you are laying out here, why is it that my incubators run at a constant temp? Why do the temps NOT shoot way over the desired temp?



The reason it stays at a constant temperature is because you are using a proportional thermostat so as you approach the set point, the thermostat dims the heat (via dimming or PWM depending on the model). I'm sure most of you already knew that but I thought I would point it out.

[Gregg M]

The reason it stays at a constant temperature is because you are using a proportional thermostat so as you approach the set point, the thermostat dims the heat (via dimming or PWM depending on the model). I'm sure most of you already knew that but I thought I would point it out.

I know why my incubators work as well as they do :D... For some odd reason Mykee seems to think that my incubators are not holding a constant temperature.
I even specified that I am using a quality proportional thermostat to run the incubator. I even stressed that it is the most important part of the incubator and not to skimp on that feature.

[MDT]

@GreggM....thanks. I'll def look into it.

[Gregg M]

@GreggM....thanks. I'll def look into it.

No problem MDT. If you have any other spacific questions, do not hesitate to ask.

[lady_bug87]

The eggs I would be incubating are small so the wine chiller is way too big... What could I use instead?

[Terranaut]

I have an old fridge I was going to do something like this with and I think yours looks great but I also would worry about rolling the heat tape for the exact reason mentioned. Also even if you consider a fan to be not needed wouldn't it still be better to have one and to circulate the air? I am not trying to stir the pot here but Mykee does make a valid point. BUT. Seeing as you have the incubator why not run it a while and check it with a temp gun? If the temps are even the fan is not needed and if you quickly unroll and check the heat tape you would find any hotspots. So if Mykee is right you would know and be able to make it better and if all is well then you would have factual proof of what you think to be safe and even. Again not trying to fuel a war but rather show a way to end one.
Also, would it be smart to add a large tub of water inside to further regulate the temps and humidity or do you think it's a waste of time.
Again thanks for posting ,I just want to know all the above for sure before starting mine.

[mykee]

Gregg, congratulations that your incubators work as well for you as they do. That's a good thing.
I was pointing out the glaringly obvious issues that you overlooked that could cause a catastrophe with your laying season.
If you choose to walk that line and take all those chances (large temperature variance, overshooting temps, temperature gradients, possible fire hazard..)
Then have at it.
I was simply pointing out these possible recipes for disaster with your hurry-up-cutting-corners build to those that aren't familiar with a proper incubator build that is safer and less apt for failure.
My intention was only to educate the masses. You're not the only one with more than a decade of experience Gregg...

Yeah, I remember your SIM containers; You sell them for $30, I make them for $4.50. Same results; 100% hatch rate.

[Gregg M]

The eggs I would be incubating are small so the wine chiller is way too big... What could I use instead?

They sell all different sizes of wine chillers. You can buy brand new or find used ones like this.

Danby Maitre'D DWC620PL-SC 6 Bottle Wine Cooler Refrigerator | BeverageFactory.com (http://www.beveragefactory.com/wine/wine/countertop/DWC620PL-SC.shtml)

[Gregg M]

I have an old fridge I was going to do something like this with and I think yours looks great but I also would worry about rolling the heat tape for the exact reason mentioned. Also even if you consider a fan to be not needed wouldn't it still be better to have one and to circulate the air? I am not trying to stir the pot here but Mykee does make a valid point. BUT. Seeing as you have the incubator why not run it a while and check it with a temp gun? If the temps are even the fan is not needed and if you quickly unroll and check the heat tape you would find any hotspots. So if Mykee is right you would know and be able to make it better and if all is well then you would have factual proof of what you think to be safe and even. Again not trying to fuel a war but rather show a way to end one.
Also, would it be smart to add a large tub of water inside to further regulate the temps and humidity or do you think it's a waste of time.
Again thanks for posting ,I just want to know all the above for sure before starting mine.

Incase you missed it, I have several of these. Some I have been using for over 10 years. Mykees points are not valid. Not in the least. I know this from my experience with thes builds. What more can I say here? Is over 10 years of using several incubators built exactly the same not enough proof?

A fan is not needed. It does not regulate the temperature. The heat tape and thermostat do that. In my experience, a fan is not better.

People can add all they want to this build. If they want to add watter bottles and fans, they can do so. I have not seen a need for either. My results speak for themselves.

Gregg, congratulations that your incubators work as well for you as they do. That's a good thing.
I was pointing out the glaringly obvious issues that you overlooked that could cause a catastrophe with your laying season.
If you choose to walk that line and take all those chances (large temperature variance, overshooting temps, temperature gradients, possible fire hazard..)
Then have at it.
I was simply pointing out these possible recipes for disaster with your hurry-up-cutting-corners build to those that aren't familiar with a proper incubator build that is safer and less apt for failure.
My intention was only to educate the masses. You're not the only one with more than a decade of experience Gregg...

Yeah, I remember your SIM containers; You sell them for $30, I make them for $4.50. Same results; 100% hatch rate.

Thee is no more possiblity of there being a "catastrophe" than with your incubators. Get real Mykee. You are pointing out issues that do not exist and there is NOTHING improper about the build I posted. It is not unsafe. Over 10 years of use and not a single problem. Never even had to change heat tape.

Stop making up BS senarios and pretending like you are an expert in the field.

And I actually have over 2 decades of experience with breeding reptiles Mykee. The first incubator I built like this was over 10 years ago. My experience goes far beyond ball pythons. Remember Mykee, when you were first getting into breeding a beginner species, I was already a successful venomous keeper and breeder.

And yes, Mykee, I know how much you love the SIM containers. You pulled the same BS on my SIM thread as you did here. Stop being a jackass and keep you big nose out of my threads if you just intend on being a disruptive tool. Thanks...

Case in point... This thread below.
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/breeding-incubation/91282-s-i-m-incubation.html

[mykee]

BTW Gregg, "in my experiences" is not fact. It's conjecture and opinion.

Like I said Gregg, you're a lucky man that hasn't had an issue with your 200 incubators and 80 years of experience with 420 different species. We get it, you're an all-star who only works with "advanced" species. Hero cookie for you.
I'm not going back and forth with you over this anymore.
I'm getting bored.

If you choose to build incubators in eight minutes and disregard a few major issues that COULD arise due to the corner cutting, cool. Quite frankly, I dont care how you choose to build your incubators. Not my concern.

We both know that eggs tend to die on their own even under optimal conditions, so what I'm doing with my builds is to eliminate ANYTHING that could potentially add to this loss.
You're the kinda guy who would drive a car with bald tires, bad brakes, and no seat belts, stubbornly refusing to correct those issues because it's not been an issue so far.

I'm not a risk taker, and I have the time to do things correctly.
I also don't want my house to burn down killing everyone and everything in it.

[Gregg M]

Mykee, you are talking from your rear dude. You are makind assumptions based on your weak opinion and there is no factual information to back you up. Have a good one.

Just an update for anyone concerned or curious.

I just temp gunned the heat tape while the thermostat was at 100% power. The temperature directly on the heat tape was 89.1 degees and the incubator is set at 85 degrees for python eggs. The temperature on the lowest shelf was 85.7 degrees and the top shelf was 85.5 degrees. The probe is set on the center shelf.

Most of the older incubators have eggs in them so I am not opening them up to check temps.
However, I was able to temp gun one I built in 2009 and the temperature directly on the heat tape was 85.2 degrees at full power. The thermostat is set for 82 degrees for colubrids. Lowest shelf read 82.5 dgrees and the top shelf was 82 degrees.

Those are not even remotely close to fire starting fires or causing some made up "catastrophe". They are not even close to human core tempeatures.

[Lankyrob]

Shouldnt the top of the icubator be hotter than the bottom? Or is it just that the lower shelf is closer to the tape?

[Terranaut]

In case I missed it?? No I did not miss anything. I actually like you build but was concerned about using flexwatt rolled up like that. I also asked your opinion on water tubs in the incubator and mentioned humidity levels but you don't seem worried about humidity. Thats fine.
I also like to deal in fact so I called Calorique (flexwatt manufacturer) and asked about using it in a roll. They told me not to use it in this way unless I ensure a minimum 1/8" gap between the coils. They said 2 pieces touching could cause the area between them to superheat beyond the safe temps of the flexwatt and melting of the insulation could result in shorting and an electrical fire. So yes you can use it rolled up but not without sime sort of spacer between the rolls. They also mentioned temps achieved with flexwatt do no represent temps of the element itself and that the element will always be hotter than the air or surface temps created using it.
So yes. Gregg is right you can use it rolled under the correct conditions.
Also if you feel a bit trolled by Mykee and like he is posting only negative comments related to you posts you might want to look at you posts before calling the kettle black. I have felt you have posted negatively about some of my posts in exactly the same way. Sighting length of time in the hobby does not always mean you know what your talking about , quality of info speaks much louder. I streetraced cars for cash for almost 7 years, this never made me a safer driver or gave me anything to brag about. I appreciate some of the info you provide us with here aand respect your knowledge but if you choose to stomp on peoples opinions expect others to return in the same way.

[mykee]

"They told me not to use it in this way unless I ensure a minimum 1/8" gap between the coils. They said 2 pieces touching could cause the area between them to superheat beyond the safe temps of the flexwatt and melting of the insulation could result in shorting and an electrical fire. So yes you can use it rolled up but not without sime sort of spacer between the rolls. They also mentioned temps achieved with flexwatt do no represent temps of the element itself and that the element will always be hotter than the air or surface temps created using it."

Lawyered!!!
That sounds vaguely familiar (read: IDENTICAL) to what I said.

I'm smart.
Gregg is not.

Mykee: 1
Gregg: 0

[Terranaut]

I forgot to add to my post...
Isn't it best to measure surface temps of the eggs to ensure optimal temp settings and to ignore the number on the thermostat itself?
What I am getting at is that temp probe placement is not to important as long as the eggs themselves are the proper temps,right?

[millertime89]

Gregg, that looks like the new heat tape from RBI or PE, how does it differ in this application from the older stuff? I've got quite a bit of the old stuff I'm not using that I could very quickly convert to this use this fall.

[Gregg M]

I also asked your opinion on water tubs in the incubator and mentioned humidity levels but you don't seem worried about humidity. Thats fine.

Why would I be worried about humidity levels inside the incubator itself? The incubator does not have anything to do with the humidity. Your incubation container is what provides the humidity.

Like I stated before, people can add what they like to this build. This is just one simple, reliable build that works.

I also like to deal in fact so I called Calorique (flexwatt manufacturer) and asked about using it in a roll. They told me not to use it in this way unless I ensure a minimum 1/8" gap between the coils. They said 2 pieces touching could cause the area between them to superheat beyond the safe temps of the flexwatt and melting of the insulation could result in shorting and an electrical fire. So yes you can use it rolled up but not without sime sort of spacer between the rolls.

I also did a couple of years back. I did not inquire spacifcally about it being rolled up but explained the application and method and was told there should not be a problem.

Personally, I like to have things in writting so I emailed the company with the spacifics like the exact temperatures the heat tape gets and specified that it was thermostatically controlled. I also called and if the info I got on the phone matches the email I am waiting for, you may be suprized at the answer.

They also mentioned temps achieved with flexwatt do no represent temps of the element itself and that the element will always be hotter than the air or surface temps created using it.

This is obvious and it is why I temp gunned the element last night.

So yes. Gregg is right you can use it rolled under the correct conditions.

And the correct conditions are in this buid.

Also if you feel a bit trolled by Mykee and like he is posting only negative comments related to you posts you might want to look at you posts before calling the kettle black. I have felt you have posted negatively about some of my posts in exactly the same way.

Really? If I sounded negative towards you, I am sorry. However, I do not recall being negative.

Sighting length of time in the hobby does not always mean you know what your talking about , quality of info speaks much louder. I streetraced cars for cash for almost 7 years, this never made me a safer driver or gave me anything to brag about. I appreciate some of the info you provide us with here aand respect your knowledge but if you choose to stomp on peoples opinions expect others to return in the same way.

Yep, you are 100% correct. Experience obviously means nothing to some people in this forum. And it is quotes like this and people like Mykee that are the reason most people worth their weight in gold do not post in this forum anymore. It is also the reason why I stopped posting here years ago. Figured I would give it another shot since my friend is a mod here. Starting to rethink that move.



I'm smart.
Gregg is not.

Mykee: 1
Gregg: 0

Super mature of you...

I forgot to add to my post...
Isn't it best to measure surface temps of the eggs to ensure optimal temp settings and to ignore the number on the thermostat itself?
What I am getting at is that temp probe placement is not to important as long as the eggs themselves are the proper temps,right?

What is "optimal egg temperature"? There can be a 10 to 15 degree optimal temp range.

[Gregg M]

Gregg, that looks like the new heat tape from RBI or PE, how does it differ in this application from the older stuff? I've got quite a bit of the old stuff I'm not using that I could very quickly convert to this use this fall.

Hey Kyle,
The new stuff seems no different,

[zwhitman]

Gregg

Nice write up. I have built very similar incubators to this for years and they work very well. Results speak for themselves. I often use a large beer cooler because they are even cheaper then wine coolers on craigslist. I cut out a plexi window so that I can also see the eggs without opening as well. This is critical to not constantly exposing your eggs to temperature fluctuations from opening the door.

With regards to a fan... you don't need one in an incubator this small. Like Gregg said, the temps will only vary by a degree or two. Hot air rises, but then it cools and is replaced by hotter air so that there is a circular convection of slowly moving air. This can be helped out by placing a board on a slant above the heater so that hot air goes up one side and cool air comes down the other. HOWEVER, if you decide you want to supersize this idea to a full size fridge, you will run into much more problems with a taller incubator. I have seen fridges with the heat at the bottom that had a 9 degree difference top to bottom. This was OK because the guy was counting on that to incubate different species in the same incubator.

As far as the heat tape in a role... this is just dangerous. I have PERSONALLY SEEN two different fires caused by heat tape used in this manner. Results speak for themselves remember! I am glad you have never had a problem but I would caution you about recommending it to others. With the same amount of heat tape and a little bit of duct tape or hot glue you can have almost the same design by just spreading the heat tape out around the bottom and sides/back of the incubator. This would also allow you to fit another shelf of eggs :D

[Gregg M]

Gregg

Nice write up. I have built very similar incubators to this for years and they work very well. Results speak for themselves. I often use a large beer cooler because they are even cheaper then wine coolers on craigslist. I cut out a plexi window so that I can also see the eggs without opening as well. This is critical to not constantly exposing your eggs to temperature fluctuations from opening the door.

With regards to a fan... you don't need one in an incubator this small. Like Gregg said, the temps will only vary by a degree or two. Hot air rises, but then it cools and is replaced by hotter air so that there is a circular convection of slowly moving air. This can be helped out by placing a board on a slant above the heater so that hot air goes up one side and cool air comes down the other. HOWEVER, if you decide you want to supersize this idea to a full size fridge, you will run into much more problems with a taller incubator. I have seen fridges with the heat at the bottom that had a 9 degree difference top to bottom. This was OK because the guy was counting on that to incubate different species in the same incubator.

As far as the heat tape in a role... this is just dangerous. I have PERSONALLY SEEN two different fires caused by heat tape used in this manner. Results speak for themselves remember! I am glad you have never had a problem but I would caution you about recommending it to others. With the same amount of heat tape and a little bit of duct tape or hot glue you can have almost the same design by just spreading the heat tape out around the bottom and sides/back of the incubator. This would also allow you to fit another shelf of eggs :D

Now this is a constuctive respectful post. Thanks for you input.

As far as he heat tape causing a fire goes, it has happened numerous times in collections even when used flat. I had a commercially available rack melt down once. I have not seen any evidence to say that my loosely rolled heat tape will cause a problem. Not discounting what you are saying at all. I believe what you are saying as far as what you saw. I just think in the right application the risk is no greater.

[jimmy62alan]

The eggs I would be incubating are small so the wine chiller is way too big... What could I use instead?
Little note to lady bug you could use one of those chill boxes with a lid on, and adapt that to use as a incubator. If you do a google search you are sure to find one that works for your own use.
ALAN
Sheffield S25

[smy_749]

Any actual elements of the wine cooler being used or are you just using the housing? Can a mini fridge be used as a substitute?

[Terranaut]

He uses the housing only. The minifridge is fine but a wine cooler has a glass door.

[zwhitman]

Any insulated container can work. It just needs to be the right size and shape to suit your needs. Styrofoam boxes can often be found for free from hospitals, supermarkets, or on craigslist. Picnic coolers, minifridges, full size fridges, or even a wooden box that you line with styrofoam yourself, can all work just fine. Also, while building your own incubators can be fun and very cheap if you do it right, it is worth mentioning is that if you only incubate a few clutches of eggs, there are many commercially available reptile and chicken incubators that are inexpensive and work perfectly well.

Just please don't use the "half full fish tank with an aquarium heater" method. No good...

[Terranaut]

Never use a bird egg incubator. Typically they heat from the top which is not ideal but most have egg turners. Turning reptile eggs will kill it.

[KORBIN5895]

Never use a bird egg incubator. Typically they heat from the top which is not ideal but most have egg turners. Turning reptile eggs will kill it.

I have a hard time understanding why top heat is not ideal. Logic tells me that the sun is the primary heat source and therefore they would be heated from above anyway.... I have no clue where snakes lay eggs though.

[Danimal]

Thanks Gregg.

I have a older fridge that I was going to make into an incubator. I have looked a several videos and tuts from regular igloo coolers to fridges to built from the ground up. Other than a budget what factors influence the size? Is it only a question of preference?

Also, what is your opinion on the use of water bottles?

[Terranaut]

I have a hard time understanding why top heat is not ideal. Logic tells me that the sun is the primary heat source and therefore they would be heated from above anyway.... I have no clue where snakes lay eggs though.

Birds sit in the eggs while snakes wrap them. It's just not ideal. I did hatch a clutch of jcps using top heat but if your buying an expensive incubator then it's better to go with heat in the bottom.

[KORBIN5895]

I realize snakes wrap them but where do they lay them?

[zwhitman]

Pythons are the ONLY snake that wraps around their eggs and they get away with it because they only live in tropical climates, and have incredible behavioral adaptations to insulate their eggs. Most snakes bury their eggs in soil where the female thinks it will stay a constant warm temperature. The heat comes from all sides, although in many species the eggs at the top of the nest are warmer than those at the bottom.

The "Hovabator" that many people use quite successfully, does heat from the top and it is was originally designed as a chick incubator. You are correct that large commercial chick incubators rotate eggs which you would not want for reptile eggs. (Although I assume you could turn that off or disable it somehow if one fell into your lap.) The hovabator can work because of its flat shape and good insulation. All of the eggs are on one level so the heat from the top can reach the whole box reasonably easily. If the incubator is taller you need heat on the bottom and/or fans. Also, if you use substrate-less incubation, you must have the heat from the bottom.

As far as water bottles/pans/etc, they will not hurt anything, but it is the humidity inside the boxes that matters, not the air flowing around in the incubator. If you live in a very dry place or you open your incubators excessively, humidifying the air in the incubator can slow the rate of evaporation from any ventilation holes in the tubs. Weigh your tubs to when you first set them up to see how much water they lose later.

[KORBIN5895]

Thanks Z. I assumed that most snake eggs were heated by the environment somehow. I couldn't see how an animal dependant on its environment for heat regulation would be able to properly heat the eggs.

[Aanayab1]

So to play it extra safe, if I were to use the 4 feet of heat tape, cut a 4 foot strip of cardboard, place the cardboard over heat tape before rolling it. In theory that would give me an 8th inch to 3/16 of an inch gap between the layers of heat tape. It would keep the rolls from coming in contact which is what potentially causes the risk. The 80-90 degree temps are no where near the flash point of cardboard. Is this theoretically correct to anyone besides myself?

[KORBIN5895]

Sounds solid to me.

[Gatorhunter1231]

I have setup sort of like Greg's. I taped my heat tape to the bottom and lower part of the sides. Tub of water at the bottom on the heat tape to keep humidity up through out incubator. No fan.
Best part is mine still has a working compressor so i put in my snakes to brumate when eggs are not in the incubator during winter. Maintains 50 nicely. Two birds, one stone.

[Cmwells90]

There's really a lot to say on this post. Primarily, I would think we are all adults here and would like to be treated as such. While I agree that the cables COULD cause an issue (I'm not saying that do, just that they can) I also believe that saying that their entire design is worthless is a little harsh. When comments are given it's best to not make people feel like an idiot. I understand you may have a deep love for reptiles Mykee, but I feel like it came off a little harsh. If you're trying to alert everyone that there are safety issues to be had here, then just point those out. Your initial posts were fine, I believe that Gregg just didn't like his idea shot down so quickly. I feel like the whole thing was started by the way Gregg decided to react to your opinions, and you both escalated from there. Honestly some of this is personal experience and some is luck, skill, magic. Call it what you will.

Side note, heat will rise and cool air will fall, however science shows that this will vary depending on the size of the enclosure. So a small incubator may not offer this same feature because it will reach a point when all the air is the same temperature so the air becomes stale. As well as a larger one will not allow the heat to rise all the way to the top before it becomes too cool and falls down again. These things should be acknowledged before telling amateurs to go build your own, because anyone in the customer service industry can tell you that people can and will do dumb things.

I like the incubator idea, it's a great one. Also the advice given around it and how to make it better are great too! I believe in experimenting and finding all the best results (clearly not with real eggs). Please be aware, I have little to no experience with reptiles, but I have a lot with science and 23 years of just being nice, or trying to be.

If you feel the need to attack me for this, go for it, but I feel my opinion is valid.

EDIT: We all come to the forums to share our ideas and opinions and gain more knowledge. The man who believes he knows everything will learn nothing.

[KORBIN5895]

There's really a lot to say on this post. Primarily, I would think we are all adults here and would like to be treated as such. While I agree that the cables COULD cause an issue (I'm not saying that do, just that they can) I also believe that saying that their entire design is worthless is a little harsh. When comments are given it's best to not make people feel like an idiot. I understand you may have a deep love for reptiles Mykee, but I feel like it came off a little harsh. If you're trying to alert everyone that there are safety issues to be had here, then just point those out. Your initial posts were fine, I believe that Gregg just didn't like his idea shot down so quickly. I feel like the whole thing was started by the way Gregg decided to react to your opinions, and you both escalated from there. Honestly some of this is personal experience and some is luck, skill, magic. Call it what you will.

Side note, heat will rise and cool air will fall, however science shows that this will vary depending on the size of the enclosure. So a small incubator may not offer this same feature because it will reach a point when all the air is the same temperature so the air becomes stale. As well as a larger one will not allow the heat to rise all the way to the top before it becomes too cool and falls down again. These things should be acknowledged before telling amateurs to go build your own, because anyone in the customer service industry can tell you that people can and will do dumb things.

I like the incubator idea, it's a great one. Also the advice given around it and how to make it better are great too! I believe in experimenting and finding all the best results (clearly not with real eggs). Please be aware, I have little to no experience with reptiles, but I have a lot with science and 23 years of just being nice, or trying to be.

If you feel the need to attack me for this, go for it, but I feel my opinion is valid.

EDIT: We all come to the forums to share our ideas and opinions and gain more knowledge. The man who believes he knows everything will learn nothing.

Thanks for the insight on a four month old post.

[Cmwells90]

Thanks for the insight on a four month old post.

Ya know, I didn't notice that until I had already posted this, but hey!